As said above its being used to rotate sets so its not a permanent diagram. I have quoted below.With capacity so short at TFW wouldn't it be better to put it on another Cardiff - Manchester diagram? Surely those holyhead services aren't that busy that they warrant a mk4. Or is it to keep Cardiff Bay happy?
Normally it's just 05:33 from Holyhead down and the 17:14 from Cardiff back up.
Its being used as a way of rotating sets this week where crewing allows so isn't permanent on the extra daytime working.
It's to keep Anglesey/Ynys Mon happy too, not to mention places like Bangor and Wrexham.With capacity so short at TFW wouldn't it be better to put it on another Cardiff - Manchester diagram? Surely those holyhead services aren't that busy that they warrant a mk4. Or is it to keep Cardiff Bay happy?
What is the chances that this will be running on Friday? I don't want to book tickets and then get shafted with a 150, I'd rather pay the extra £15 and go via Birmingham rather than be sat on a 150 all the way to Cardiff.Its being used as a way of rotating sets this week where crewing allows so isn't permanent on the extra daytime working.
Ah right ok. Thank you for that.Normally it's just 05:33 from Holyhead down and the 17:14 from Cardiff back up.
Its being used as a way of rotating sets this week where crewing allows so isn't permanent on the extra daytime working.
As far as I know its not planned to happen after tomorrow. It may be changed ad-hoc again but I wouldn't bank on it happening on Friday.What is the chances that this will be running on Friday? I don't want to book tickets and then get shafted with a 150, I'd rather pay the extra £15 and go via Birmingham rather than be sat on a 150 all the way to Cardiff.
67025 and whichever rake has 5 carriages past Leominster on 5Z14 Crewe-Canton at 18:23
Whenever I have used the services around North Wales they have been reasonably busy and sometimes standing room only. I would imagine capacity is required all over the Wales network.With capacity so short at TFW wouldn't it be better to put it on another Cardiff - Manchester diagram? Surely those holyhead services aren't that busy that they warrant a mk4. Or is it to keep Cardiff Bay happy?
That's 67014 and HD03... 025 is in service on HD06.67025 and whichever rake has 5 carriages past Leominster on 5Z14 Crewe-Canton at 18:23
Where it becomes complicated is that the Holyhead-Chester portions of "Gerald" are duplicated by both other TfW services and Avanti's peak services.Whenever I have used the services around North Wales they have been reasonably busy and sometimes standing room only. I would imagine capacity is required all over the Wales network.
I seem to recall signage (or at least reading about) in vestibules on some trains (though possibly not TfW) that standard class passengers are not permitted in first class coaches at all, even first class vestibules are for the exclusive use of first class passengers. At the very least, I understand that some standard class passengers were threatened with (possibly even issued with) some form of penalty for standing in the vestibule of a first class coach on First Great Western intercity services. Even if this doesn't apply with TfW, the fact that other TOCs might punish you for it is a deterrent from walking through first class.Are passengers not permitted to walk through first class to get between the standard class coaches?
It was HD02 on 1V42 from Manchdster and it had a power fault in the kitchen car. It was at Newport but ran on to Cardiff.1v96 Holyhead to Cardiff with 67010 just failed at Newport with defective doors.
I suppose with one more stop it's easier to lock those doors and keep moving.It was HD02 on 1V42 from Manchdster and it had a power fault in the kitchen car. It was at Newport but ran on to Cardiff.
The doors were locked anyway, there wasn't an issue with the actual doors, just the lack of power caused it to not have Integrity so the driver couldn't take power.I suppose with one more stop it's easier to lock those doors and keep moving.
I believe Virgin (not Avanti) had this policy most explicitly described, but there is absolutely no way it would be enforced on TfW, and no way passengers would not be permitted from walking through to access Standard. In all likelihood, I reckon that guards will make announcements highlighting the extra coach if it does end up underutilised.I seem to recall signage (or at least reading about) in vestibules on some trains (though possibly not TfW) that standard class passengers are not permitted in first class coaches at all, even first class vestibules are for the exclusive use of first class passengers. At the very least, I understand that some standard class passengers were threatened with (possibly even issued with) some form of penalty for standing in the vestibule of a first class coach on First Great Western intercity services. Even if this doesn't apply with TfW, the fact that other TOCs might punish you for it is a deterrent from walking through first class.
I seem to recall signage (or at least reading about) in vestibules on some trains (though possibly not TfW) that standard class passengers are not permitted in first class coaches at all, even first class vestibules are for the exclusive use of first class passengers. At the very least, I understand that some standard class passengers were threatened with (possibly even issued with) some form of penalty for standing in the vestibule of a first class coach on First Great Western intercity services. Even if this doesn't apply with TfW, the fact that other TOCs might punish you for it is a deterrent from walking through first class.
From the National Rail Conditions of Travel:I believe Virgin (not Avanti) had this policy most explicitly described, but there is absolutely no way it would be enforced on TfW, and no way passengers would not be permitted from walking through to access Standard. In all likelihood, I reckon that guards will make announcements highlighting the extra coach if it does end up underutilised.
15. Using First Class Accommodation
15.1: Some train services include first class accommodation. Where first class accommodation is available, the relevant seats and area(s) of the train will be clearly marked. Unless Train Company staff, or notices on the train give you specific permission, you cannot travel in first class accommodation (including standing in corridors or passageways) with a standard class Ticket. This applies even if there are no vacant seats in standard class.
Yes, I agree.I think an argument that passing through first class in order to access another part of the train is "travelling in" would be difficult to sustain even though you could argue that so long as the train is moving it is literally true, particularly given that it explicitly mentions "standing in" first class.
My mistake, it was indeed 1V42, the guard and driver tried many attempts at opening and closing the doors especially slamming shut the luggage doors on the DVT many times to no avail, all the while making many phone calls for advice., that's why I assumed it must be a door locking fault. They then decided to detain the passengers, they must have rectified the fault as it went empty stock to Cardiff where I caught up with it again.It was HD02 on 1V42 from Manchdster and it had a power fault in the kitchen car. It was at Newport but ran on to Cardiff.
I seem to recall signage (or at least reading about) in vestibules on some trains (though possibly not TfW) that standard class passengers are not permitted in first class coaches at all, even first class vestibules are for the exclusive use of first class passengers. At the very least, I understand that some standard class passengers were threatened with (possibly even issued with) some form of penalty for standing in the vestibule of a first class coach on First Great Western intercity services. Even if this doesn't apply with TfW, the fact that other TOCs might punish you for it is a deterrent from walking through first class
Indeed - the railway byelaw text says:I think an argument that passing through first class in order to access another part of the train is "travelling in" would be difficult to sustain even though you could argue that so long as the train is moving it is literally true, particularly given that it explicitly mentions "standing in" first class.
Key word being "remain" - I suspect a TOC would be on very thin ice to threaten anyone with prosecution who was merely passing through to the next carriage.19. Classes of accommodation, reserved seats and sleeping berths
Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place.
On the 5 car sets there will be quite a few stops where passengers in the isolated standard coach will have to pass through the 1st class coach to get off due to SDO being used. To prevent them from passing through isn't going to be a consideration and seeing as on board upgrades are advertised 7 days a week allowing anyone to sit in 1st and pay the guard the upgrade, there's a 0% chance any of those that do pass through will end up prosecuted.Indeed - the railway byelaw text says:
Key word being "remain" - I suspect a TOC would be on very thin ice to threaten anyone with prosecution who was merely passing through to the next carriage.
Putting the first class coach at the end would mean it would hang off the edge of the platform in some cases, and as it has the wheelchair space this would obviously cause issues accessing it.To ask a dumb question, how come a standard class carriage has got marooned the other side of a first class carriage?
It hasn’t, at least not any more. The FC is between the DVT and standard.To ask a dumb question, how come a standard class carriage has got marooned the other side of a first class carriage?
That was only the case when there was no standard wheelchair accommodation. There is now (and had been since late last year), so the FC is now at the DVT end and not sandwiched by standard.Putting the first class coach at the end would mean it would hang off the edge of the platform in some cases, and as it has the wheelchair space this would obviously cause issues accessing it.