Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[Krokodil]

Very true.

I have noticed, however, that the screens at the tops of the ramps for each platform come up with the train details about five minutes before they appear on the main screens.

You do of course have to know which set of platforms to hover by in order to see the right screen light up though.

 

[ruaival]

I’ve been onto the platforms there, and indeed often onto trains themselves, enough times before a service has been advertised, and never had a problem. There’s a certain knack to doing it without attracting attention! Blackpool North is another matter, wouldn’t get away with it there.

Agreed. The key approach is courtesy to the staff cleaning and the train manager when they arrive. Often the advance coach door arrival is followed by a tactful wait until they have finished and are ready; you may end up seeing the flood of people descend the ramp but at least you were able to amble along the platform at your own unhurried place ... and likely secured an unreserved seat if needed.

 

[HOOVER29]

You drive to London purely because you don’t like the way they board trains at Euston?

I drive to London as it’s generally cheaper.

The only time I use the train nowadays is travelling into London to Marylebone or when on holiday in the West Country or if I’m popping into Birmingham when I drive to Sutton Coldfield which to be honest isn’t a lot as I can’t stand Birmingham

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You do of course have to know which set of platforms to hover by in order to see the right screen light up though.

That's true - in this case a combination of RTT and the ramp screens should work.

 

[jagardner1984]

I wonder whether a lot of it is the Psychology of it all.

In Kings Cross, Glasgow, Paddington, you FEEL as if you are beside the trains. There is a gateline, there is your train.

In Euston there is just so much clutter with all the catering in the wrong places, that in the main concourse you FEEL as if you are some distance from for example Coach A of an 11 coach Pendolino on Platform 1.

In reality of course, when there is a late inbound for the 1830 they would be much better to put a "Expected departure 1845" on the boards and audio announcement, as you simply won't turn around that train in 0 minutes, and leaving it non specified creates the sprinter mentality.

If however the station were decluttered with much more public space, much more visibility of the trains, I wonder whether a natural improvement would come about from "of course we aren't going to miss it, it isn't even here yet". I also wonder whether the ramps could be better designed to, a la Easyjet etc, have queueing lanes so that you could announce the platform for the 1830 before the delayed arrival, but still have a decent egress path for inbound pax. Then for example logically you would board coaches A-C,D-F,G-K,No Reservations sequentially so you could regulate the flow along the platform and load those with the furthest to go first. As you generally do an aircraft.

Unfortunately I think if the cleaners were to face boarding passengers, their work would be considerably slowed, and sadly I think the great British public is frankly not considerate enough to give this time before hoarding on, so there is probably some need for a short "no boarding" window between arrival and boarding beginning.

So much of all of this is behavioural, and whilst there is still the odd passenger who gets to the front of the easyjet queue and looks as if no one has ever asked them for a boarding card before, most do "know the script" and get used to the ways of boarding, and can see its logic, whether it be to their advantage that day or not.

The reason so many good thinking people push back on the Euston situation is because they perceive it to be entirely bonkers. And they'd be right.

 

[jon0844]

King's Cross had queuing lines in the old 1970s concourse.

 

[dk1]

King's Cross had queuing lines in the old 1970s concourse.

Hard to imagine now how awful and small that concourse was.

 

[Statto]

I’ve been onto the platforms there, and indeed often onto trains themselves, enough times before a service has been advertised, and never had a problem. There’s a certain knack to doing it without attracting attention! Blackpool North is another matter, wouldn’t get away with it there.

I've waited at Euston on the platforms before, mostly for LNWR services, for AWC i tend to wait on the ramp by the doors, using a combo of Traksy & Realtime Trains to watch out for any last minute platform changes

 

[stephen rp]

King’s Cross started doing exactly this during FCC days and it was a menace. The worst possible moment is just as the incoming train is arriving, as like you describe it results in flows conflicting. I emailed to complain about it and received a belligerent response.

Wimps in London. Try waiting on the "concourse" at Piccadilly platform 14 or Oxford Road p.2 in the evening peak until the incoming passengers have got off.

 

[williamn]

The other factor here is the changing behaviour of passengers. There seems to be less consideration of others, and a desperate rush to board even if there’s no disruption. I don’t believe everyone rushing or running is without a seat reservation, there’s just this desperation to get on for some reason, even if you’ve got a seat.

 

[jagardner1984]

The other factor here is the changing behaviour of passengers. There seems to be less consideration of others, and a desperate rush to board even if there’s no disruption. I don’t believe everyone rushing or running is without a seat reservation, there’s just this desperation to get on for some reason, even if you’ve got a seat.

Is that not in some ways just a reflection on the travelling public's confidence in Avanti's ability to operate:

1. The Services they said they would operate.
2. The Seat Reservations they said they would operate.

The public are far from faultless. But the general narrative that Avanti are entirely incompetent (/entirely hamstrung by the DfT, who are also entirely incompetent) has at least some basis in fact.

 

[williamn]

Is that not in some ways just a reflection on the travelling public's confidence in Avanti's ability to operate:

1. The Services they said they would operate.
2. The Seat Reservations they said they would operate.

The public are far from faultless. But the general narrative that Avanti are entirely incompetent (/entirely hamstrung by the DfT, who are also entirely incompetent) has at least some basis in fact.

I don’t know, I see it everywhere, not just Euston.

 

[jon0844]

How much of the rushing to board is down to people without reservations wanting to find a seat vs those who are simply rushing so they can find somewhere to put their bags?

I don't want compulsory reservations to become a thing, but I wonder if there would be an improvement if tighter restrictions were introduced on luggage - akin to Lumo? Of course you can also build trains with more room for bags too.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

The other factor here is the changing behaviour of passengers. There seems to be less consideration of others, and a desperate rush to board even if there’s no disruption. I don’t believe everyone rushing or running is without a seat reservation, there’s just this desperation to get on for some reason, even if you’ve got a seat.

I definitely think the compulsory reservation thing has something to do with this behaviour though. I always try and reserve a forward facing table seat (going backwards on a Pendolino always makes me feel sick, especially on the bit south of Warrington when they get up to a speed that it feels like they shouldn’t be doing!) and the amount of times I’ve watched people get on at the same station as me and sit in my reserved seat, or the amount of times someone has their bags in it and then huff and puff and sigh when asked (politely) to move them.

Not helping this behaviour is the fact that although it’s compulsory reservations, pretty much every ticket I’ve booked recently has been an open return, so I’m not necessarily going to be on my booked train if my meeting runs short/over so my reservation may not be in use, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who does this, so my reserved seat remains empty, tempting people to sit in them on the off chance it’ll remain empty, so that’s another reason for people to jump in early if they can

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't want compulsory reservations to become a thing, but I wonder if there would be an improvement if tighter restrictions were introduced on luggage - akin to Lumo?

This would cause me to cease long distance train travel entirely.

 

[Hadders]

How much of the rushing to board is down to people without reservations wanting to find a seat vs those who are simply rushing so they can find somewhere to put their bags?

I don't want compulsory reservations to become a thing, but I wonder if there would be an improvement if tighter restrictions were introduced on luggage - akin to Lumo? Of course you can also build trains with more room for bags too.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with compulsory reservations.

‘Us lot’ on here know the train won’t depart early and that the doors won’t close until a few seconds before departure. ‘Normal’ passengers often panic thinking that if there’s only a few minutes until departure that they need to run.

Added to the fact that Euston you can’t see the trains from the concourse (which contrary to what others have said isn’t due to placing of food outlets), the trains are at a lower level than the concourse linked by a ramp. People going down a ramp in a hurry will naturally start to run. Add all this together and there’s your problem.

 

[Samzino]

Rushing is just a railway thing these days with commuters. You only have to be on a platform in the central section of the Elizabeth line to see people rushing down escalators like it's a full blown fire chasing them and this with 4 mins to spare before the train arrives or having a fit because they've just missed a train and the next one is in 8mins.

It's just a commuter thing now, it's probs made worse as some say by the fact you can't see the trains at Euston till down the ramp.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Rushing is just a railway thing these days with commuters. You only have to be on a platform in the central section of the Elizabeth line to see people rushing down escalators like it's a full blown fire chasing them and this with 4 mins to spare before the train arrives or having a fit because they've just missed a train and the next one is in 8mins.

It's just a commuter thing now, it's probs made worse as some say by the fact you can't see the trains at Euston till down the ramp.

I does always seem odd to me too, on the central line seeing people rushing onto the train when it 2 minutes to the next one. Even at national rail level commuters don't tend to have a fixed train home so getting the Next one even if it's 30mins later tends to be my preference, pretty much in my case sitting on the train for 20 mins in the warm.

 

[jon0844]

This is why it's usually good for the next train to be hidden one or more minutes before departure, depending on where the screen is. But that doesn't work when people are using their own device!

This is also perhaps why people rush for a train that clearly cannot depart yet. If a train arrives late, especially an IC service, then there is always going to be a minimum turnaround time. But if the booked time is now getting close and boarding hasn't begun, there's going to be panic even if there's a revised expected time.. perhaps because on some normal services a train might turn around quick if there's a crew change and expected times can result in a train going 'early'.

One of the problems of providing information to people who won't be expected to fully understand how things work, so will just get into a panic.

 

[island]

Voice announcements first? They are presumably aware that that is illegal as it is discriminatory against deaf people?

I thought they were incompetent but this takes the cake. I'd not hesitate to bring a legal case were I deaf.

It is quite an overinterpretation of the Equality Act to suggest that it is discriminatory to share information verbally and visually other than at the exact same instant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is quite an overinterpretation of the Equality Act to suggest that it is discriminatory to share information verbally and visually other than at the exact same instant.

It's certainly discriminatory to wilfully do so, yes, because that will clearly be foreseeable to disadvantage the deaf person. You don't have to intend ill, simply for it to be foreseeable that ill will be caused.

Obviously the constraints of the various systems aren't discriminatory, e.g. you can't announce more than one thing at once so announcements queue up. But wilfully withholding visual information for a period of time but providing it verbally would absolutely be discrimination.

 

[Krokodil]

but I wonder if there would be an improvement if tighter restrictions were introduced on luggage - akin to Lumo?

At some point we're going to stop regarding passengers as an inconvenience to be managed and actually start catering to their needs

Of course you can also build trains with more room for bags too.

That's more like it.

 

[jon0844]

Which do you think is more likely to happen?

 

[Adrian1980uk]

At some point we're going to stop regarding passengers as an inconvenience to be managed and actually start catering to their needs


That's more like it.

Certainly more luggage space would be positive but how do you achieve it on the maximum length trains when there's limited space to run more trains

 

[DaventryRabbit]

I don’t think it’s anything to do with compulsory reservations.

‘Us lot’ on here know the train won’t depart early and that the doors won’t close until a few seconds before departure. ‘Normal’ passengers often panic thinking that if there’s only a few minutes until departure that they need to run.

Added to the fact that Euston you can’t see the trains from the concourse (which contrary to what others have said isn’t due to placing of food outlets), the trains are at a lower level than the concourse linked by a ramp. People going down a ramp in a hurry will naturally start to run. Add all this together and there’s your problem

 

[Statto]

I don’t think it’s anything to do with compulsory reservations.

‘Us lot’ on here know the train won’t depart early and that the doors won’t close until a few seconds before departure. ‘Normal’ passengers often panic thinking that if there’s only a few minutes until departure that they need to run.

Added to the fact that Euston you can’t see the trains from the concourse (which contrary to what others have said isn’t due to placing of food outlets), the trains are at a lower level than the concourse linked by a ramp. People going down a ramp in a hurry will naturally start to run. Add all this together and there’s your problem.

That's the issue at Euston, the platforms are well away from the concourse, so you can't see the trains until you get to the ramp down to the platform, & it's not helped that trains are often called minutes before departure, so leads to some passengers panicking thinking they're going to miss the train, & making a run for it.

When trains are running normally, the situation of calling trains minutes before departure, then mass of passengers running for the train, often leads to trains departing Euston late.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

The only way you are ever going to solve the problem completely is by having a TOTAL REBUILD OF THE ENTIRE STATION and have the Concourse moved down to Platform Level and have entry to it from Euston Road being down A Slope similar in scale to the Platform Ramps Now!
This is obviously completely out of the question on any level.

 

[HSTEd]

I don’t know, I see it everywhere, not just Euston.

Well the railway hardly gives a trustworthy appearance these days.

Especially as it likes to cancel trains "due to a short notice change to the timetable", which translates to normal people as "we've cancelled it because we've cancelled it".

There is no guarantee that there will be space on the train for everyone and there is no guarantee that there will be later trains going where you need to go.

 

[CheshireCrusty]

While I totally agree with all the negative comments about Euston's passenger handling procedures being wanting and dangerous, I am reminded of an epithet from the aviation industry which is to describe passengers as "self-loading cargo"!

 

[HSTEd]

The only way you are ever going to solve the problem completely is by having a TOTAL REBUILD OF THE ENTIRE STATION and have the Concourse moved down to Platform Level and have entry to it from Euston Road being down A Slope similar in scale to the Platform Ramps Now!
This is obviously completely out of the question on any level.

What would it look like if you removed everything that was not structurally essential to holding the roof up?
How much circulating space is actually potentially available