Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[Peter0124]

Yes, they always do. They also have mobile cleaners that are working on the trains between different stops.

Would there be any issue with boarding the train before the cleaning is done?

 

[Taunton]

With the greatest respect, there is almost always a cleaning team getting on, soon as the set arrives into Paddington, in my experience anyway as a driver the train is always cleaned on arrival.

I quite agree, it's good to see the cleaners boarding as passengers are alighting. They work through efficiently, leave ... then nothing.

 

[sprunt]

Would there be any issue with boarding the train before the cleaning is done?

Unless it's changed since August when I last went from Manchester to London, passengers are allowed to board trains for London as soon as arriving passengers have alighted.Staff typically pass through the train collecting rubbish when the initial lot of passengers who were already on the platform when the train arrived have boarded, and the rate of boarding has slowed. It seems to work well - I could understand if a more extensive clean was done at Euston when the train's sitting empty for a while.

Is this a new thing where you're not allowed to wait near the probable platform in Euston any more or is it just a thing to handle the Christmas rush?

 

[Craig1122]

This thread brings to mind the Inter City Shuttle. Among other things part of the concept was that a train would always be waiting ready to board:

InterCity Shuttle

I've heard of some shorter InterCity routes being branded as 'Shuttle' in the later BR era. Does anyone know which routes were involved, and was there any change to the service offering other than just a new name?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this a new thing where you're not allowed to wait near the probable platform in Euston any more or is it just a thing to handle the Christmas rush?

I seem to recall when it's been discussed before that there is a weight limit on the ramps, which with a combination of Trainline showing predicted platforms (which are generally quite accurate at Euston) and the very large number of people there on Friday (due to the debacle the day before) I can see why they might have needed to do something. I hope it isn't permanent, though, as that just makes the station *even more* unpleasant.

This thread brings to mind the Inter City Shuttle. Among other things part of the concept was that a train would always be waiting ready to board:

InterCity Shuttle

I've heard of some shorter InterCity routes being branded as 'Shuttle' in the later BR era. Does anyone know which routes were involved, and was there any change to the service offering other than just a new name?

www.railforums.co.uk

It's the case at Manchester Piccadilly with the 3tph service. Usually there are two there at once, occasionally when there's disruption you get three.

This probably makes the cleaners' job easier - only people for intermediate stations that aren't served by all three and those on Advances tend to board as soon as it arrives.

 

[Peter0124]

If there's no issue with us being on the train while they clean, then they should open up the platform at Glasgow Central again and allow people to board whenever! Ticket checks can be done anytime on the 1hr 10m journey between Glasgow and Carlisle, no need for the waiting at railings!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there's no issue with us being on the train while they clean, then they should open up the platform at Glasgow Central again and allow people to board whenever! Ticket checks can be done anytime on the 1hr 10m journey between Glasgow and Carlisle.

I wonder if at Glasgow it has more to do with them wanting to do boarding checks and not have the staff stood around for ages. Indeed I wonder if this is a fair part of the issue at Euston.

 

[ruaival]

This is why I always get to the platform early, luckily I've not had any problems with staff yet.
Often I'm at the top of the platform quite a bit before my train arrives.

My tactic has been to predict platform using RTT and get there just after arrival of the inbound train itself, before any gates are closed to 'herd the cattle' - only very occasionally caught out by a change of set / platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My tactic has been to predict platform using RTT and get there just after arrival of the inbound train itself, before any gates are closed to 'herd the cattle' - only very occasionally caught out by a change of set / platform.

For LNR services I'm happy to go onto platforms in advance, particularly 8-11, as they don't do boarding checks. For Avanti I wouldn't as I don't want to wind the "ticket check dragons*" up.

* Shamelessly borrowed from Flyertalk (which I used to frequent though haven't for a while) and their "gate dragons" and "lounge dragons"

 

[Furrball]

I wonder if at Glasgow it has more to do with them wanting to do boarding checks and not have the staff stood around for ages. Indeed I wonder if this is a fair part of the issue at Euston.

Morning departures

No ticket checks at barrier

Stock arrived ECS so no cleaning

Only other reason could be loading of catering stock but quite frequently this occurs with Avanti service on P1 and a ScotRail service on P2 which you can board

So there is no real logic

 

[Krokodil]

Morning departures

No ticket checks at barrier

I got checked on the first one of the day

 

[bramling]

You drive to London purely because you don’t like the way they board trains at Euston?

Why not? There was a time when I got sick of standing on a freezing cold platform at King’s Cross for 25 minutes in the morning for no good reason, and started using the car for such journeys.

Nowadays car is my default choice for journeys to London, which would have been unheard of several years ago. All these little niggles and annoyances add up.

If there's no issue with us being on the train while they clean, then they should open up the platform at Glasgow Central again and allow people to board whenever! Ticket checks can be done anytime on the 1hr 10m journey between Glasgow and Carlisle, no need for the waiting at railings!

Doing the ticket check at the barrier makes life easier for the on-train staff, as it means problem people don’t get as far as being on the train.

The rights and wrongs of this are a matter for debate, however it does seem to be an example of how at times the west coast operation seems geared round staff expedience rather than being particularly passenger friendly. The whole coach K thing is of course another example.

 

[Samzino]

I use signalmaps when I'm at that Dammed station. Usually I'll be able to find the headcode of the train that I'm waiting for once it arrives at the platform a good 3-5mins before its ready to board, position myself and immediately it displays on the board above the platform ramp entrance I'm down and thru the gates before the avalanche of people.

 

[Wolfie]

And you have confirmed my answer in the first sentence of the second answer above!

Deliberately taking steps that disadvantage one group of disabled people is actively doing the opposite of making reasonable adjustments. As someone who was involved in handling litigation at up to Supreme Court level for almost 15 years l would bet on no lawyers having been consulted on that policy as it is a pretty much guaranteed litigation loss.

 

[BeijingDave]

I thought that the ORR/HMRI was solely responsible for ‘railway’ safety now. The period when the HMRI was part of the HSE didn’t seem to be very successful, with loss of industry-specific focus.

There should be no ‘double/alternative’ jeopardy. (“Oh, we thought that YOU were ensuring safety at Euston now.”)

In strictly legal terms, this is not a case of 'double jeopardy'.

It is just blurred lines of accountability/responsibility.

 

[dk1]

Why not? There was a time when I got sick of standing on a freezing cold platform at King’s Cross for 25 minutes in the morning for no good reason, and started using the car for such journeys.

Nowadays car is my default choice for journeys to London, which would have been unheard of several years ago. All these little niggles and annoyances add up.

Gosh!! We all look at things in a different way I suppose.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

My tactic has been to predict platform using RTT and get there just after arrival of the inbound train itself, before any gates are closed to 'herd the cattle' - only very occasionally caught out by a change of set / platform.

I've never* had problems with just walking in when there's no train boarding/deboarding, even for P1-P3, the gate next to the barriers os often open.

* Sample size of 3 visits this year

 

[trainophile]

At least at Glasgow you tend to get a good 10-20 minutes prior to departure, which is helpful if your seat is at the London end of an 11-coacher. Also the platform is wide enough not to get stuck behind any slow moving people.

 

[Couru]

I doubt anyone can make NR Euston listen; if they won't listen to the ORR, who will they listen to?

CPS, when an incident inevitably happens and the RAIB report is summarised as "we aren't allowed to place blame, but it was totally Euston's fault lmao"

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Gosh!! We all look at things in a different way I suppose.

There is a point here, not that much can be done in a lot of cases but my commute from Norwich to Waterloo and back the experience makes it so much preferable to me driving to Milton Keynes on another day of week commute.

Get to station, buy coffee, pass through gate and train is at the platform waiting for me to board - very civilised, into Liverpool Street on to the tube. In reality I don't really need a coat as I never really go outside, I only take it for times of disruption.

Returning there is nearly always a train waiting for me at Liverpool St so walk through and straight on - GA let you board while cleaning. Given its every 30 mins and turnaround is timetabled for 30 mins it's really unlikely to have to stand on the concourse for more than 10 mins.

If Avanti could achieve that, then the scrum just doesn't happen.

 

[al78]

Sounds like I dodged a bullet. I was planning to travel from Horsham to Salford by train on Christmas Eve and would have done if my panniers had fitted on my folding bike's rack (the clips weren't wide enough). A folding bike, two panniers, and a small backpack in a boarding scrum, no thanks. Had the best car journey in years with no hold-ups, the only niggle was being caught behind people who think joining a free flowing motorway at 35 mph is a good idea.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Deliberately taking steps that disadvantage one group of disabled people is actively doing the opposite of making reasonable adjustments. As someone who was involved in handling litigation at up to Supreme Court level for almost 15 years l would bet on no lawyers having been consulted on that policy as it is a pretty much guaranteed litigation loss.

Very true.

I have noticed, however, that the screens at the tops of the ramps for each platform come up with the train details about five minutes before they appear on the main screens.

 

[Wolfie]

Very true.

I have noticed, however, that the screens at the tops of the ramps for each platform come up with the train details about five minutes before they appear on the main screens.

Interesting. As a regular user of Euston l hadn't spotted that, TY.

 

[Horizon22]

There is a Control Room with Network Rail colleagues and another one with Avanti West Coast colleagues - for Avanti, they are also called Engine Arrangers.

Network Rail is the one that always makes the announcements, as well as managing the board. They are also the ones doing the assitance for passengers, security checks etc.

Avanti is the one feeding the information to Network Rail about anything that has to do with their trains, which is then passed to the customers by NR.

I don't know about London North Western.

There is a LNWR presence within the control room, although they are “flexible” to also deal with more crew related issues around the station. I don’t they’d have much say or authority over platform boarding though.

NR (or having a main TOC do so on their behalf) managing a control room is the norm at London terminals. Something specifically is happening at Euston for these issues to arise.

I quite agree, it's good to see the cleaners boarding as passengers are alighting. They work through efficiently, leave ... then nothing.

Train cleaners would then normally hand over to station control ready for boarding. Sometimes there’s also stock to put on and you don’t want to do it too early if crew haven’t set up the train (e.g. for digital reservations on some stock .)

 

[boiledbeans2]

I've never* had problems with just walking in when there's no train boarding/deboarding, even for P1-P3, the gate next to the barriers os often open.

* Sample size of 3 visits this year

I also have a small sample size of visits, but if you use RTT way in advance before the platform is announced, the Avanti ticket guys are not even present on the ramps yet.

Even if you are late and have to follow the Euston scrum, I remember the Avanti ticket guys only blocked half the ramp for ticket checks. E.g. looking at a map of Euston, paltform 12 to 15 all share a same ramp. Say a train was boarding on platform 15, they only blocked the left half of the ramp, and the Euston scrum/sheep all funnelled to the left half of the ramp. I walked down the right half of the ramp, which was completely free of people, and no one stopped me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also have a small sample size of visits, but if you use RTT way in advance before the platform is announced, the Avanti ticket guys are not even present on the ramps yet.

Even if you are late and have to follow the Euston scrum, I remember the Avanti ticket guys only blocked half the ramp for ticket checks. E.g. looking at a map of Euston, paltform 12 to 15 all share a same ramp. Say a train was boarding on platform 15, they only blocked the left half of the ramp, and the Euston scrum/sheep all funnelled to the left half of the ramp. I walked down the right half of the ramp, which was completely free of people, and no one stopped me.

I wouldn't recommend you doing either of those things, you could find BTP showing an interest.

Going onto 8-11 before the train is announced is generally tolerated (though BTP did ask me about doing it once, probably because I was walking back towards the staff-only subway to board the rear coach) as those platforms are designed for waiting on, with benches etc, and have a permanent gateline. It isn't the intended way of using the station at any other platform.

 

[357]

I wouldn't recommend you doing either of those things, you could find BTP showing an interest.

Going onto 8-11 before the train is announced is generally tolerated (though BTP did ask me about doing it once, probably because I was walking back towards the staff-only subway to board the rear coach) as those platforms are designed for waiting on, with benches etc, and have a permanent gateline. It isn't the intended way of using the station at any other platform.

I've never had a problem waiting on a platform at Euston, let alone BTP being interested

 

[Starmill]

In the unlikely event of someone vulnerable being killed by crushing I would expect a prosecution for corporate manslaughter in circumstances like this, where the risk has not only been clearly identified and written down, but covered widely in the media and public domain. A serious injury would also be likely to see an enormous claim, which is obviously in the interests of nobody. I hope senior management are paying attention personally and that Network Rail act to change to way the station is managed very soon.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I wouldn't recommend you doing either of those things, you could find BTP showing an interest.

I don't think I've seen BTP on the ramps/platforms at Euston (in my small sample size of visits), except when there is football.

Though there were Avanti staff hanging around not doing anything, like when I went down on the right half of the ramp in my earlier post, and no one stopped me.

 

[bramling]

I wouldn't recommend you doing either of those things, you could find BTP showing an interest.

Going onto 8-11 before the train is announced is generally tolerated (though BTP did ask me about doing it once, probably because I was walking back towards the staff-only subway to board the rear coach) as those platforms are designed for waiting on, with benches etc, and have a permanent gateline. It isn't the intended way of using the station at any other platform.

I’ve been onto the platforms there, and indeed often onto trains themselves, enough times before a service has been advertised, and never had a problem. There’s a certain knack to doing it without attracting attention! Blackpool North is another matter, wouldn’t get away with it there.