LNER to pilot removal of Off-Peak tickets

[MrJeeves]

I mean the price quoted. Will you be able to get a Flex ticket 5 minutes before travel at a lower price than today's Super Off Peak?

If it's not very heavily reserved, you'd assume so.

 

[modernrail]

No, I don’t… bit of a bottom of the barrel argument?

Most people travelling long distance know roughly when they want to travel back. Few people, especially outside these forums, would pop out for a drink in York or have a practically all day travel window that they wish to travel in.

There isn’t a true peak on the ECML. So peak time pricing differentials don’t work. Joe Public would rather have a seat rather than ‘oh, I can travel any time of the day!’.

It also removes the cut offs regarding peak times. The ECML doesn’t have the Euston scrum, but there is no reason that long distance travel should be based around South East commuter times.



And what about the price reductions for those who don’t need the full day flexibility? Again, the amount of people who turn up and go on long distance is tiny.

Equally, when they’re in hot competition against the airlines and the car, they’re not going to be stupid enough to price themselves out of the market. They may ‘pull a Ryanair’ and up the fare on the day, but this won’t make a difference for the many. Who’ll just be glad they can get a seat.

That is absolutely not true.

There are lots of people who absolutely do not know which train they want to get back and need a ticket, currently available, that has sufficient flexibility.

 

[Agent_Squash]

There’s also plenty above the price of super off peak. For example:

This train is £95.80 for a 70 min flex single. Previously would’ve been a super off peak train.

That train allows you to get the 0630, though - getting you into KGX in what is the traditional peak.

So you’re actually saving a fortune over what you would’ve needed to pay to get the same flexibility previously!

I understand why LNER wants to implement this change. Removal of off-peak and super off-peak fares does make it simpler for many non-local passengers, as the definitions of off-peak and super off-peak depend on a lot of factors and are often a source of confusion.

I would suggest a few changes in order to make the new fare system more acceptable:

1. Lower the admin fee to £5, which is already higher than the actual cost;
2. Make advance/70flex refundable, or convertible to credits that can be used within 3 months; and
3. In case of cancellation or significant delay (say, over 30 mins), have the advance/flex70 tickets automatically upgraded to Anytime free of charge.

I would agree that the restrictions are too much. Personally I would go for fee free refunds 3 days or more before departure.

It is literally the same argument, removing the ease of TUAG! If you think flex is an improvement I'm afraid your seriously deluded,

A far better product limiting freedom , 1 in 9 use off peaks currently that is less than 1% of TO users, still a substantial amount of travelers though, also these new tickers are nonrefundable too so good luck if you no longer need to travel rather than being a tenner out of pocket you can be substantially more,.

Again, who actually is a TUAG passenger on the long distance railway?

As previously mentioned, most passengers don’t care for the full flexibility offered by an off peak ticket. It’s confusing, it’s archaic, and it doesn’t suit the modern railway.

We shouldn’t bend railway fare structure to suit the needs of a few when the majority just want clear, easily defined fares. The new structure does exactly that.

I mean the price quoted. Will you be able to get a Flex ticket 5 minutes before travel at a lower price than today's Super Off Peak?

There’s nothing to suggest you wouldn’t. Although nothing can be said in stone until we’ve seen the full dynamic pricing beast.

It is literally the same argument, removing the ease of TUAG! If you think flex is an improvement I'm afraid your seriously deluded,

A far better product limiting freedom , 1 in 9 use off peaks currently that is less than 1% of TO users, still a substantial amount of travelers though, also these new tickers are nonrefundable too so good luck if you no longer need to travel rather than being a tenner out of pocket you can be substantially more,.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again; the amount of TUAG traffic on a long distance railway is minimal.

Off peak/peak on long distance is an archaic fare structure. People would rather have a good chance of a seat, and clear ticket restrictions, rather than the web of restrictions that exists currently.

The fare system shouldn’t remain stagnant to accommodate the needs of a minority of passengers.

I mean the price quoted. Will you be able to get a Flex ticket 5 minutes before travel at a lower price than today's Super Off Peak?

It’s perfectly possible, demand dependent of course.

I understand why LNER wants to implement this change. Removal of off-peak and super off-peak fares does make it simpler for many non-local passengers, as the definitions of off-peak and super off-peak depend on a lot of factors and are often a source of confusion.

I would suggest a few changes in order to make the new fare system more acceptable:

1. Lower the admin fee to £5, which is already higher than the actual cost;
2. Make advance/70flex refundable, or convertible to credits that can be used within 3 months; and
3. In case of cancellation or significant delay (say, over 30 mins), have the advance/flex70 tickets automatically upgraded to Anytime free of charge.

I’d go even further! Fee free refunds 3 days before travel. Gives a better chance of tickets being returned, although I suspect the current systems wouldn’t be able to work with this properly.

One other question about this.

Semi-flex tickets are, like other advance tickets, forbidden for starting short and ending long. This potentially would mean that higher prices could be charged for London to Newcastle when there is an event in Newcastle, than London to Edinburgh.

Once expanded, stopping short or starting late will effectively be banned, other than on anytime tickets.

The stop short/start late restriction is pointless on advance tickets - hopefully this is removed at some point in the fare reform journey.

 

[GoneSouth]

Yes, the non refundable or amendable nature of these new tickets is the really cynical element. It appears the only way to have a refundable ticket is to pay the extortionate anytime fare which is just unforgivable.

I suspect LNER won’t mind this one bit. If a no show doesn’t return a ticket and LNER are thus unable to resell it at the original price, they will instead be keeping the fare from the original non refundable sale and selling full price anytime ticket to someone who could have legitimately used the cheaper ticket. Double bubble and disgraceful cynical extortion from the DfT.

 

[JonathanH]

The stop short/start late restriction is pointless on advance tickets - hopefully this is removed at some point in the fare reform journey.

As with everything, it is there to protect revenue. If anything, compulsory scanning at start and end of journey is more likely. Indeed, the semi-flex ticket type lends itself to this sort of thing with the operator wanting the data on whether people are catching the actual train booked or another service within the 70 minute window.

 

[Agent_Squash]

That is absolutely not true.

There are lots of people who absolutely do not know which train they want to get back and need a ticket, currently available, that has sufficient flexibility.

Who would really travel from Edinburgh to London with no idea what time their train is going back?

If you need absolute certainty that you can get any train, you’ve still got the Anytime.

And advances/flexes are available 5 minutes until departure, so the argument there is no flexibility is absolutely not true.

As with everything, it is there to protect revenue. If anything, compulsory scanning at start and end of journey is more likely. Indeed, the semi-flex ticket type lends itself to this sort of thing with the operator wanting the data on whether people are catching the actual train booked or another service within the 70 minute window.

Surely if a TOC is pricing sensibly, all a stop short/late start would be is more money in their pocket than the passenger would otherwise pay?

 

[modernrail]

A TUAG passenger is … all those who use those tickets. That is all those people who use those tickets.

Do some people use those tickets? Yes. That means there are some passengers who need that flexibility.

Any other troublesome minorities on the railways we need to get rid of?

Your Mum fell down the stairs and you want to go and visit her in hospital?? Don’t be an irritating minority. You got to the station late because that family thing overran and thought ahead with a flexible ticket? Don’t be an irritating minority.

Who would really travel from Edinburgh to London with no idea what time their train is going back?

If you need absolute certainty that you can get any train, you’ve still got the Anytime.

And advances/flexes are available 5 minutes until departure, so the argument there is no flexibility is absolutely not true.



Surely if a TOC is pricing sensibly, all a stop short/late start would be is more money in their pocket than the passenger would otherwise pay?

Are you sure you don’t work for LNER?

I am not sure when you last checked Anytime fares but they are the ones that look like transatlantic air fares.

I don’t want to maybe get an advance/flex 5 mins before (if one is available) at whatever price it is being offered at (completely uncertain). I want, on many many occasions, to buy a ticket that allows the flexibility of an off-peak. For instance:
- I am coming in on another train on a separate ticket and I don’t trust train A to deliver me to train B on time, and I definitely don’t trust Guard on Train B to ‘let me off’ because I know they are 1000% more likely to say, not my problem mate, different ticket.
- I am staying with friends and guess what, we didn’t plan our day down to the second months in advance.
- SME that has planned a meeting so can use off-peak fares but not certain about which train will catch. I do this at least twice a month - usually fixed train out flexible back. Just about affordable. Now not doable.
- don’t want to spend your entire life worried if you miss your train, you will be done for a whole new fare. (And no the 70 mins thing doesn’t cover this as well as a ticket that has much wider flexibility)
- 100’s of other reasons

 

[GoneSouth]

That is absolutely not true.

There are lots of people who absolutely do not know which train they want to get back and need a ticket, currently available, that has sufficient flexibility.

And, let’s not forget that when this gets rolled out everywhere it will impact many shorter journeys made on an impulse, eg a day out in York as the weather is nice. if cheaper advance are limited in number then you’ll have a lot of last minute day trippers being shocked at the outrageous price and just give up with rail altogether.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Again, who actually is a TUAG passenger on the long distance railway?

As previously mentioned, most passengers don’t care for the full flexibility offered by an off peak ticket. It’s confusing, it’s archaic, and it doesn’t suit the modern railway.

We shouldn’t bend railway fare structure to suit the needs of a few when the majority just want clear, easily defined fares. The new structure does exactly that.

A. People who use ticket offices use tuag off peaks but you defended them. If ticket offices cannot be lost neither should TUAG rights!

B. It is not simple in fact its a RPI inspectors wet dream and no doubt many passengers will fall foul on other TOCs or LNER themselves,

C. A several hour flex period let's call it off-peak and have it last several hours is much more flexible than a 70 minute leeway.

D. Off Peak tickets are guaranteed whereas the new flexi tickets can sell out.

If we want simple fares there shouldn't be bogged down with unessary roadblocks again designed to punish the poorer traveler whom cannot plan months ahead!

 

[8rwg]

Just browsing some of the new fares on BRfares.com

This seems terrible for priv holders. London - Edinburgh single will now be £48 (up from £22 off peak). I’ve just checked I could fly next Monday for £20… not sure how this will benefit them when airlines are their main competitor on that route.

 

[modernrail]

I just checked the station usage figures across the country and I noticed that less people get off at some stations than others. I can’t believe we have been letting this happen? Why are we letting a minority of people slow the train down for the majority.

Hopefully all those pesky minority stations will be closed down and bulldozed quick smart.

Actually, whilst I was in there I also noticed that a minority of travellers use trains, so let’s just get rid of trains shall we.

 

[GoneSouth]

Am I understanding this correctly, and the new fares are only available from London to Newcastle and Edinburgh? Doesn’t that mean that you can have people travelling from Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Darlington to Newcastle or Edinburgh on the same train but still able to use super/off peak tickets, where these are not available from KX to Newcastle /Edinburgh? If so this whole thing is just bonkers. Or, I’m bonkers for not fully understanding this newly simplified system… what a mess!

 

[Hadders]

Am I understanding this correctly, and the new fares are only available from London to Newcastle and Edinburgh? Doesn’t that mean that you can have people travelling from Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Darlington to Newcastle or Edinburgh on the same train but still able to use super/off peak tickets, where these are not available from KX to Newcastle /Edinburgh? If so this whole thing is just bonkers. Or, I’m bonkers for not fully understanding this newly simplified system… what a mess!

That's correct although the pilot could well be extended to include more stations. In the short term this will mean there are 'workarounds' although in LNER-speak thsi would be 'distorting the market'.

 

[Agent_Squash]

A TUAG passenger is … all those who use those tickets. That is all those people who use those tickets.

Do some people use those tickets? Yes. That means there are some passengers who need that flexibility.

Any other troublesome minorities on the railways we need to get rid of?

Your Mum fell down the stairs and you want to go and visit her in hospital?? Don’t be an irritating minority. You got to the station late because that family thing overran and thought ahead with a flexible ticket? Don’t be an irritating minority.

The most facetious edge case there is… proving how very few people really need an off peak return.

If I was having to travel long distance to see my mum, I’d at least check the train times first. Of which you can purchase an advance/flex up to 5 minutes before…

It’s not that hard a concept!

Are you sure you don’t work for LNER?

I am not sure when you last checked Anytime fares but they are the ones that look like transatlantic air fares.

I don’t want to maybe get an advance/flex 5 mins before (if one is available) at whatever price it is being offered at (completely uncertain). I want, on many many occasions, to buy a ticket that allows the flexibility of an off-peak. For instance:
1) I am coming in on another train on a separate ticket and I don’t trust train A to deliver me to train B on time, and I definitely don’t trust Guard on Train B to ‘let me off’ because I know they are 1000% more likely to say, not my problem mate, different ticket.
2) I am staying with friends and guess what, we didn’t plan our day down to the second months in advance.
3) SME that has planned a meeting so can use off-peak fares but not certain about which train will catch. I do this at least twice a month - usually fixed train out flexible back. Just about affordable. Now not doable.
4) don’t want to spend your entire life worried if you miss your train, you will be done for a whole new fare. (And no the 70 mins thing doesn’t cover this as well as a ticket that has much wider flexibility)
- 100’s of other reasons

People can come to their own opinions, you know… even after learning about the harsh conditions of the ticket, I’ve always felt this is a better idea because it’s far clearer to the public!

Anytimes are ridiculously priced - but equally there is very little reason under the new system to need them. Being resistant to change isn’t a valid argument against this. In all your examples…

1) National Rail Conditions of Carriage - it wouldn’t make any difference…
2) Millions travel on advances without doing the same. Again, you wouldn’t book to travel 400 miles without giving your return some thought.
3) No one can really make a valid judgement on this until they see the on the day pricing.
4) Believe it or not, most people are still capable of time management.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Am I understanding this correctly, and the new fares are only available from London to Newcastle and Edinburgh? Doesn’t that mean that you can have people travelling from Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Darlington to Newcastle or Edinburgh on the same train but still able to use super/off peak tickets, where these are not available from KX to Newcastle /Edinburgh? If so this whole thing is just bonkers. Or, I’m bonkers for not fully understanding this newly simplified system… what a mess!

It's a "trial" although them intermiderires are on several TOC corridors e.g Cross-country & TPE North of York, although this "pilot" also removes the freedom to jump on a Lumo train. I wonder of they'll still be doing off-peaks if only at least of their open acsess runs.

The most facetious edge case there is… proving how very few people really need an off peak return.

If I was having to travel long distance to see my mum, I’d at least check the train times first. Of which you can purchase an advance/flex up to 5 minutes before…

What if all the flexes are sold? What then!

 

[modernrail]

The most facetious edge case there is… proving how very few people really need an off peak return.

If I was having to travel long distance to see my mum, I’d at least check the train times first. Of which you can purchase an advance/flex up to 5 minutes before…

It’s not that hard a concept!



People can come to their own opinions, you know… even after learning about the harsh conditions of the ticket, I’ve always felt this is a better idea because it’s far clearer to the public!

Anytimes are ridiculously priced - but equally there is very little reason under the new system to need them. Being resistant to change isn’t a valid argument against this. In all your examples…

1) National Rail Conditions of Carriage - it wouldn’t make any difference…
2) Millions travel on advances without doing the same. Again, you wouldn’t book to travel 400 miles without giving your return some thought.
3) No one can really make a valid judgement on this until they see the on the day pricing.
4) Believe it or not, most people are still capable of time management.

I am sorry Agent Squash but you are overlooking a really very important point here. There is NO GUARANTEE there will be an advance or flex ticket available when I look 5 mins before. There is also NO CAP on the price of the fare.

With an off-peak ticket, it is GUARANTEED to be available and the fare is CAPPED.

So it is worse, not better, more complex - not less, by any sane objective view. You see?

I will also be sure to ask my Mum to plan her next fall down the stairs.

 

[Agent_Squash]

A. People who use ticket offices use tuag off peaks but you defended them. If ticket offices cannot be lost neither should TUAG rights!

B. It is not simple in fact its a RPI inspectors wet dream and no doubt many passengers will fall foul on other TOCs or LNER themselves,

C. A several hour flex period let's call it off-peak and have it last several hours is much more flexible than a 70 minute leeway.

D. Off Peak tickets are guaranteed whereas the new flexi tickets can sell out.

If we want simple fares there shouldn't be bogged down with unessary roadblocks again designed to punish the poorer traveler whom cannot plan months ahead!

1) Ticket offices are perfectly capable of selling flex and advance tickets.

2) It’s clearer for passengers than off peak is!

3) There is no ‘off peak’ period of demand on the long distance leisure railway. The idea of pricing based on it is ridiculous.

4) Who wants to stand from London to Edinburgh? If you really want to, you can still buy an anytime.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I am sorry Agent Squash but you are overlooking a really very important point here. There is NO GUARANTEE there will be an advance or flex ticket available when I look 5 mins before.

I will also be sure to ask my Mum to

Probably get poor old mumsy to pay the Anytime and blame her rather than a system that is not set up for last min travel!

2) It’s clearer for passengers than off peak is!

It's not though

4) Who wants to stand from London to Edinburgh? If you really want to, you can still buy an anytime.

Have you seen the price of Anytime tickets!

 

[Agent_Squash]

I am sorry Agent Squash but you are overlooking a really very important point here. There is NO GUARANTEE there will be an advance or flex ticket available when I look 5 mins before.

But theres a more likely than not chance there is… you can’t make a judgement on the system as a whole based on a hypothetical worse case scenario.

 

[modernrail]

It's a "trial" although them intermiderires are on several TOC corridors e.g Cross-country & TPE North of York, although this "pilot" also removes the freedom to jump on a Lumo train. I wonder of they'll still be doing off-peaks if only at least of their open acsess runs.




What if all the flexes are sold? What then!

Yeah, this is the bit I really don’t get. Does this trial mean they have also brought in specific operator only ticketing by the back door?

Previously, I could use any combination of operators and break my journey and there was also some route allowance.

Now, it seems there is no such thing as a National Rail ticket on this route, only specific operator trains. Is that really right? If so, that is 2 massive back-door changes in one sly card trick appallingly dressed up as good for the passenger.

 

[Travelmonkey]

But theres a more likely than not chance there is… you can’t make a judgement on the system as a whole based on a hypothetical worse case scenario.

It's pretty much a guarantee flexes will sell like hot cakes but a simple post 9am off peak usable all day and weekends wouldn't!

Yeah, this is the bit I really don’t get. Does this trial mean they have also brought in specific operator only ticketing by the back door?

Previously, I could use any combination of operators and break my journey and there was also some route allowance.

Now, it seems there is no such thing as a National Rail ticket on this route, only specific operator trains. Is that really right? If so, that is 2 massive back-door changes in one sly card trick appallingly dressed up as good for the passenger.

No doubt Lumo are watching (and hopefully prepping) for a influx of "impulsive Unorganised" LNER passengers.

 

[Fermiboson]

1) Ticket offices are perfectly capable of selling flex and advance tickets.

2) It’s clearer for passengers than off peak is!

3) There is no ‘off peak’ period of demand on the long distance leisure railway. The idea of pricing based on it is ridiculous.

4) Who wants to stand from London to Edinburgh? If you really want to, you can still buy an anytime.

Advance tickets are currently capped at off peak prices. Without off peak, they will be capped at anytime prices, hence doubling the price of, shall we call it, walk up advance. Even if they were available, which in my experience they are often not for shorter routes. There’s also concerns with how delay repay could apply to flex tickets. And as previously iterated, they could just keep the off peaks and introduce this “simplification”, if there was no ulterior motive.

 

[modernrail]

It's pretty much a guarantee flexes will sell like hot cakes but a simple post 9am off peak usable all day and weekends wouldn't!

Yeah sorry Agent Squash you don’t operate in the real world. Those who use the railway as a genuine form of transport rather than to take the kids to see the Lion King in London need certainty of availability. It is not a worse case scenario or anything like it. 5 trains I tried to book over Christmas were locked out because they had limited the off peak tickets.

This is an industry wide move by a load of people who have decided on an agenda. It stinks and it means I probably need to go buy myself a car.

 

[Fermiboson]

Yeah, this is the bit I really don’t get. Does this trial mean they have also brought in specific operator only ticketing by the back door?

Previously, I could use any combination of operators and break my journey and there was also some route allowance.

Now, it seems there is no such thing as a National Rail ticket on this route, only specific operator trains. Is that really right? If so, that is 2 massive back-door changes in one sly card trick appallingly dressed up as good for the passenger.

This is a very important point, now that you’ve raised it. Would it be pertinent to split it in a new thread?

 

[Travelmonkey]

Or better yet do as scotrail have centralise to the off peak base fare but this added layer of beuacracy is going to sting so many travelers!

Advance tickets are currently capped at off peak prices. Without off peak, they will be capped at anytime prices, hence doubling the price of, shall we call it, walk up advance. Even if they were available, which in my experience they are often not for shorter routes. There’s also concerns with how delay repay could apply to flex tickets. And as previously iterated, they could just keep the off peaks and introduce this “simplification”, if there was no ulterior motive.

Yeah sorry Agent Squash you don’t operate in the real world. Those who use the railway as a genuine form of transport rather than to take the kids to see the Lion King in London need certainty of availability. It is not a worse case scenario or anything like it. 5 trains I tried to book over Christmas were locked out because they had limited the off peak tickets.

This is an industry wide move by a load of people who have decided on an agenda. It stinks and it means I probably need to go buy myself a car.

All good if you can drive, but many rail users cannot, suppose we are fish in a barrel!

 

[8rwg]

Am I understanding this correctly, and the new fares are only available from London to Newcastle and Edinburgh?

And Berwick.

Doesn’t that mean that you can have people travelling from Peterborough, Doncaster, York and Darlington to Newcastle or Edinburgh on the same train but still able to use super/off peak tickets, where these are not available from KX to Newcastle /Edinburgh? If so this whole thing is just bonkers. Or, I’m bonkers for not fully understanding this newly simplified system… what a mess!

Yes it does mean that. It also means you could buy London - Haymarket, London - Manors, Berwick - Finsbury Park and it will be cheaper for you.

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
And what about the price reductions for those who don’t need the full day flexibility? Again, the amount of people who turn up and go on long distance is tiny.

What price reductions?

The whole point of this (and I'm pretty confident I've read Horne saying so in Modern Railways in previous months, though in a slightly veiled manner) is removing the cap the Super Off Peak provides. The prices will skyrocket. If that wasn't the point, they'd just add the new ticket and not remove the Super Off Peak.

You've said this a few times now. It'd be interesting to read what David Horne's words actually were (though I do appreciate that's a little easier said than done), especially as it seems to be fundamental to the point you're making.

However, taking a broader view of things, it's quite possible to contend there are several things that have paved the way for this change - of which removing the effective cap on fares that the Super Off-Peak provides is just one.

I can appreciate the argument regarding the easy comprehensibility of the Semi-Flex 70 fares that some have put forward - I should add that doesn't mean the argument wins me over! But I recall 20+ years ago failing to persuade people who held off-peak (then Saver or SuperSaver!) tickets with reservations that they were not tied to that particular train, though at the same time they were not free to just catch any train. Then on the flip side (and I was just doing this the other day), trying to convince people that if they wanted flexible tickets (they were genuinely going to a funeral and subsequent wake) then there was genuinely no benefit in buying early versus on the day (for this journey route, Advance out and flexible return is much more than an Off-peak return).

To a significant degree, the situation we're in now in the way in which many (prospective) passengers approach long-distance train travel and buying fares is the result of the Trainline et al (but principally the Trainline!) drumming it into people that buying ahead is cheaper, spotlighting the cheapest fare above all else, and TOCs heavily pushing Advance tickets because it made the most business sense for them in that they didn't have to share the revenue.

The whole issue of coming top (i.e. cheapest) of a comparison table of prices, and the market altering results that follow, is of course far from unique to the railways - as insurance, flights, online retail (and the behemoth that is Amazon) all attest to.

I just think it's perhaps worth looking at how LNER arrived at this point from a wider perspective. Yes, the DfT takes the revenue risk of the whole industry now and so can (and seemingly is) binning the concept of regulated fares, and is using / encouraging it's 'in house' TOC to implement a trial scheme which does just that. But the commonly heard cry of 'rail fares are too complicated' isn't manufactured either.

Personally I think life, and hence rail travel, is more complicated than this new scheme allows for. I think its possible that rail fares could retain flexibility and affordability whilst also embracing a degree of simplification (and elimination of the most byzantine elements of complexity), and the result could be communicated in a much better, simpler way than it is now. But I acknowledge that's unlikely to be on the agenda any time soon!

 

[Agent_Squash]

Yeah, this is the bit I really don’t get. Does this trial mean they have also brought in specific operator only ticketing by the back door?

Previously, I could use any combination of operators and break my journey and there was also some route allowance.

Now, it seems there is no such thing as a National Rail ticket on this route, only specific operator trains. Is that really right? If so, that is 2 massive back-door changes in one sly card trick appallingly dressed up as good for the passenger.

I agree that the move towards operator specific ticketing is a backwards step.

Yeah sorry Agent Squash you don’t operate in the real world. Those who use the railway as a genuine form of transport rather than to take the kids to see the Lion King in London need certainty of availability. It is not a worse case scenario or anything like it. 5 trains I tried to book over Christmas were locked out because they had limited the off peak tickets.

This is an industry wide move by a load of people who have decided on an agenda. It stinks and it means I probably need to go buy myself a car.

Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they don’t operate in the real world.

The usage of anytime as a cap is concerning (personally, I would lower the Anytime to the median between the previous Anytime and Offpeak) - but the fact is there isn’t enough data to say that this is outright making passengers pay a premium.

I’ll put it another way. How else could you manage demand better? Any solution needs to be revenue neutral else it’ll be rejected by HMT, and you’ve got to be able explain it to passengers at the end. One for another thread, perhaps.

 

[modernrail]

Yeah sorry Agent Squash you don’t operate in the real world. Those who use the railway as a genuine form of transport rather than to take the kids to see the Lion King in London need certainty of availability. It is not a worse case scenario or anything like it. 5 trains I tried to book over Christmas were locked out because they had limited the off peak tickets.

This is an industry wide move by a load of people who have decided on an agenda. It stinks and it means I probably need to go buy myself a car.

Or better yet do as scotrail have centralise to the off peak base fare but this added layer of beuacracy is going to sting so many travelers!



All good if you can drive but many rail users cannot, suppose we are fish in a barrel! Wish I knew where Squish's magic money tree is,

Let’s be serious. 99% of the population can’t afford Anytime fares.

Most of them these days are probably purchased by the civil service and BBC - paid for by us, in another piece of amazing internal UK accounting. Even big business tells you to get on Teams most of the time now.

 

[8rwg]

2) It’s clearer for passengers than off peak is!

I don’t think it is. Off peak isn’t confusing if you think about it for more than a few minutes.

With this system, customers will see that it’s cheaper to get a ticket one stop beyond where they want to go and it’s cheaper. Why?

They will also see, that they could buy a flex ticket set for one train, which they could then ‘miss’ and get on the next one where there were no advanced tickets available and it’s cheaper for them. Why?

For 90% off passengers the ticket they want can be figured out with 3, maybe 4 questions. “What time do you want to travel? Do you want to come back? Do you want flexibility or a fixed train? Do you want to pay £x or £y”