Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[trainophile]

No, there's no fence (or at least there wasn't when I was last there!) - the fast line platforms are in constant use. It is quite unnerving being on platform 6 with a train passing at 125mph, yes!

Ah, I may be thinking of Carnforth, where the fast trains don't actually stop at the station but whizz through on an adjacent line which I'm fairly sure is fenced off.

Apols for thread diversion, back to Euston...

 

[185]

The only sensible solution for Avanti trains is to wait for inbound train to arrive and tip out, cleaners on, lock doors, then announce platform. Once cleaners are done, unlock doors.

This would just move the (a-la 28 days later) lunacy of the running down the ramps to (something resembling the pub scene from Shaun of the Dead) around the train's doors, just as dangerous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This would just move the (a-la 28 days later) lunacy of the running down the ramps to (something resembling the pub scene from Shaun of the Dead) around the train's doors, just as dangerous.

People slowly moving to the doors of a stationary train isn't dangerous, that's just nonsensical.

 

[185]

Passengers at Euston DO NOT move slowly anywhere, it's a scientific impossibility for them. As soon as the doors open, this would result in worse squishing into the door than 30 pensioners fighting their way on the 9:30¼ Sheil Road circular. Only sensible solution is more platforms, longer dwell times and doors open minimum 20 minutes before.

 

[Horizon22]

I have seen his a euston and is a issue that hasnt improved
However a similar situation exists at local stations where they announce a change in the platform about one minute before the train arrives. Sometimes you need to cross a footbridge to get to the new platform. I have no idea how elderly and infirm are meant to get from one end of a lengthy platform to another but noone seems to care

Sometimes the signaller will re-route something to avoid delays. If the staff aren’t advised and there’s no local or central controller staring at the local maps for the station, the auto-platform announcement will kick in but as you say it can just be a minute or two. Certain through stations have more issues than others for this.

Really difficult issue to resolve without spending loads of money, causing more delays or changing lots of processes.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Passengers at Euston DO NOT move slowly anywhere, it's a scientific impossibility for them. As soon as the doors open, this would result in worse squishing into the door than 30 pensioners fighting their way on the 9:30¼ Sheil Road circular. Only sensible solution is more platforms, longer dwell times and doors open minimum 20 minutes before.

They don't at the moment, because they're not allowed to. They are forced into running, as platforms are announced just minutes before departure with a countdown timer. If they announced them in good time they would happily amble there. To say it would make it worse simply shows you don't understand the situation from a passenger perspective at all.

 

[ModernRailways]

Passengers at Euston DO NOT move slowly anywhere, it's a scientific impossibility for them. As soon as the doors open, this would result in worse squishing into the door than 30 pensioners fighting their way on the 9:30¼ Sheil Road circular. Only sensible solution is more platforms, longer dwell times and doors open minimum 20 minutes before.

I have to fully disagree with this. People would be waiting on the platform, they can see their train and the train doors they will board through. The doors will be released, and just like everywhere else where a train enters service from having been locked up, people will gravitate to the nearest door, they will queue and board, in turns.

One of the main reasons Euston has the current issue is in part due to platforms being announced with very short notice. As has been mentioned, there is a fairly accepted practice at most (all?) London termini that long distance trains are held back and only announced once ready to board, however, these are generally with longer periods before the train departs and at stations that are a lot more accessible and spacious, certainly not 5 minutes prior where even someone able bodied will struggle to get from the concourse to the north end of an 11 car Pendolino, and that's without getting to the ramps where everyone then gets penned in for a visual revenue check.
Euston on a whole needs a total redesign, similar to the style that Kings Cross had but there are certainly things they could put in place to help with these current issues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They don't at the moment, because they're not allowed to. They are forced into running, as platforms are announced just minutes before departure with a countdown timer. If they announced them in good time they would happily amble there. To say it would make it worse simply shows you don't understand the situation from a passenger perspective at all.

That can be observed on the rare occasion a LNR service is called in good time - people just wander down and wait by the doors.

 

[Krokodil]

How long do other European terminals give you to board long distance services? I wouldn't usually take lessons on customer service from Parisiens but even they can't be this bad.

 

[WAB]

Sometimes the signaller will re-route something just to delays. If the staff aren’t advised and there’s no local or central controller staring at the local maps for the station, the auto-platform announcement will kick in but as you say it can just be a minute or two. Certain through stations have more issues than others for this.

Are the announcements triggered by the path being called, or the train entering the platform's berth?

 

[bahnause]

How long do other European terminals give you to board long distance services? I wouldn't usually take lessons on customer service from Parisiens but even they can't be this bad.

For Switzerland: As soon as the corresponding track has been cleared by the preceding train. The announcement can be suppressed if another train with the same destination is travelling beforehand.

 

[CarrotPie]

How long do other European terminals give you to board long distance services? I wouldn't usually take lessons on customer service from Parisiens but even they can't be this bad.

In Finland, as soon as the last service from that platform leaves, it'll be displayed on the boards. You'll be allowed to board the second it arrives too.

 

[Horizon22]

Are the announcements triggered by the path being called, or the train entering the platform's berth?

The berth (train describers). It’s normally not the platform berth but one just outside the station.

This is why if you have a proactive signaller / controller available they can either a) make manual announcements or b) alter the platform manually which buys you a few more minutes.

 

[exbrel]

if the platform is displayed after the inbound passengers have disembarked and cleared the platform, the cleaning will have started. It will give out-bound passengers time to get to the ticket check then arrive on the platform to wait for the doors to be opened... "simplies" or is this too easy for Euston.

 

[Bletchleyite]

if the platform is displayed after the inbound passengers have disembarked and cleared the platform, the cleaning will have started. It will give out-bound passengers time to get to the ticket check then arrive on the platform to wait for the doors to be opened... "simplies" or is this too easy for Euston.

I think they need a complete change of station management. The existing ones are too ingrained to realise how ridiculous the situation is or that the fix isn't just more of the same.

 

[exbrel]

I think they need a complete change of station management. The existing ones are too ingrained to realise how ridiculous the situation is or that the fix isn't just more of the same.

a good start would be to let the station management do the "run", let half have luggage, give them a average board time and be sure its videoed...

 

[PG]

a good start would be to let the station management do the "run", let half have luggage, give them a average board time and be sure its videoed...

Also if NR Chief Executive Andrew Haines could be there too...

 

[Skie]

So, to be quite clear that I have understood your proposal (and other nuances suggested by other posters), let us consider a straightforward example. On Easter Tuesday 2nd April the 1030 to Glasgow is booked to depart from Platform 1. It is formed off the 0735 ex Manchester, due 0941. Let's assume that it arrives punctually and has tipped out and platform cleared by 0950. The cleaners are by then 'locked on' by the arriving Train Manager.

Avanti (agency?) revenue protection staff attend the 'closed' (i.e. normal operational position) barrier gates at 0950 ready to assist passengers for the Glasgow departure and remain through to 1030. The Glasgow train is shown as ready and open for boarding on all indicators, apps, announcements from 0950. Passengers then start to steadily trickle down to enjoy the 'more than adequate' comforts of Platform 1 until train preparation, reservations display and so on are complete and the doors are released by the Train Manager.

Can anyone confirm at what time the Train Manager would normally be booked to have the Glasgow train ready?

I guess that's one way to handle it, but does rely on the TM being available and a revenue block being possible (or requred...)

I was more thinking along the lines of the below. And this is from someone with no operational knowledge of Euston, just lots of painful usage:

1. ex Manchester arrives at 0941 and will form the 1030
2. Passengers are off by 0946
3. TM clears train and locks it at around 0946 but lets call it 0950
4. Cleaners use carriage key to open whatever door they fancy (C and K crew door usually for restock)
5. Simultenously with the above, or when the cleaners give the signal they are onboard, the train appears on displays as "1030 to Glasgow - Wait on platform 1"
6. Cleaners finish cleaning at 1000 and lock doors they were using
7. TM, driver and crew turn up at 1005 and once happy for boarding to commence, unlock the train for passengers. Platform displays change to "1030 to Glasgow - Boarding Platform 1"
8. Ramp doors close at 1028 and the train departs at 1030
9. TM walks through train to do a ticket check before first stop

Timings will obviously be a bit different in reality, but you have passengers able to get themselves in position at doors 10 minutes after the service gets in and 10-25 minutes before the train would normally be called. If a train comes in late, then you get the benefit of not needing to split a revenue team to cover the late call and can get passengers off the concourse and ready to board as soon as the train and crew are ready. And if you regularly have passengers waiting on platforms, that could open up extra retail opportunities on the platforms themselves. Plenty of space for a small coffee stand on nearly every platform.

Disruption and overcrowding could be relieved by shifting passengers down to the platform ramp that their train is expected to go from, leaving the center of the ramp open for passengers disembarking. Or even onto the larger platforms as they have plenty of space to handle waiting passengers and people disembarking. But the more you do the sensible option and keep people informed and near to a train, the less passengers feel like they have 30 seconds before their train will leave so they'll rush less as a result (that'll take lots of time).

Yes, last minute changes or crew issues would result in people having to move to another platform, but once you have the main concourse quiet and no scrums beelining for a platform you improve circulation. And there is even the parcel ramp that could be converted for passenger use if NR really gave two hoots.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest it'd be a lot easier if they didn't have the small number of ticket checking staff doing boardings and there was a full gateline under the stupid advert board instead. That really does need to be progressed.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I find Milton Keynes station scary, the speed the non-stoppers pass through within a couple of yards (or metres if you prefer lol) of the platforms. Only been there twice, but I seem to remember there's some sort of wire fencing preventing people getting too close, but the draught from the passing trains is enough to literally put the wind up people waiting there!

If you think that's bad, try Bushey!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you think that's bad, try Bushey!

I waited for about 59 minutes at Cheddington with a group of Scouts once (when it was hourly there, we just missed it), they seemed to be quite entertained by the Pendolinos flying through. It's got anti suicide fences now but it didn't then.

 

[nanstallon]

In Finland, as soon as the last service from that platform leaves, it'll be displayed on the boards. You'll be allowed to board the second it arrives too.

This sounds too much like customer service for it ever to happen in Britain. Keep the customer in his place!

 

[exbrel]

I guess that's one way to handle it, but does rely on the TM being available and a revenue block being possible (or requred...)

I was more thinking along the lines of the below. And this is from someone with no operational knowledge of Euston, just lots of painful usage:

1. ex Manchester arrives at 0941 and will form the 1030
2. Passengers are off by 0946
3. TM clears train and locks it at around 0946 but lets call it 0950
4. Cleaners use carriage key to open whatever door they fancy (C and K crew door usually for restock)
5. Simultenously with the above, or when the cleaners give the signal they are onboard, the train appears on displays as "1030 to Glasgow - Wait on platform 1"
6. Cleaners finish cleaning at 1000 and lock doors they were using
7. TM, driver and crew turn up at 1005 and once happy for boarding to commence, unlock the train for passengers. Platform displays change to "1030 to Glasgow - Boarding Platform 1"
8. Ramp doors close at 1028 and the train departs at 1030
9. TM walks through train to do a ticket check before first stop

Timings will obviously be a bit different in reality, but you have passengers able to get themselves in position at doors 10 minutes after the service gets in and 10-25 minutes before the train would normally be called. If a train comes in late, then you get the benefit of not needing to split a revenue team to cover the late call and can get passengers off the concourse and ready to board as soon as the train and crew are ready. And if you regularly have passengers waiting on platforms, that could open up extra retail opportunities on the platforms themselves. Plenty of space for a small coffee stand on nearly every platform.

Disruption and overcrowding could be relieved by shifting passengers down to the platform ramp that their train is expected to go from, leaving the center of the ramp open for passengers disembarking. Or even onto the larger platforms as they have plenty of space to handle waiting passengers and people disembarking. But the more you do the sensible option and keep people informed and near to a train, the less passengers feel like they have 30 seconds before their train will leave so they'll rush less as a result (that'll take lots of time).

Yes, last minute changes or crew issues would result in people having to move to another platform, but once you have the main concourse quiet and no scrums beelining for a platform you improve circulation. And there is even the parcel ramp that could be converted for passenger use if NR really gave two hoots.

this is what is called common sence, do the railways have that in their vocabulary or working practises manual? or is the "self loading freight" a necessary inconvenience...

 

[uglymonkey]

Railways are run for the benefit of the railways - you knew that though !

 

[Skie]

To be honest it'd be a lot easier if they didn't have the small number of ticket checking staff doing boardings and there was a full gateline under the stupid advert board instead. That really does need to be progressed.

I’m convinced the entire reason Euston is such a mess is to keep the ticket block happening. It’s entirely pointless when a TM can do it after departure or in times of heavy loading a few RPIs (redeployed from standing around Euston barriers) could hop on to assist. The Euston bods could do platform ticket checks too, or man a new gate line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m convinced the entire reason Euston is such a mess is to keep the ticket block happening.

I think it's part of it. It's not 100% of it, because WMT don't do boarding checks other than at the 8-11 gateline and very occasional RPI stings.

(I do know Avanti staff hate it when a WMT service is called on the next platform, though)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In the past half hour or so, Twitter is filling up with news of further chaos and crowding at Euston...

Real Time is indicating there's a signal failure, so there's definitely potential for the dangerous issues to build up very quickly.


Here's a quality tweet...

My theory is that when they demolished the Arch they disrupted a portal to the underworld and placed #Euston under an eternal curse

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Then there's the LNW services which don't need any prep but still get suppressed - if they need it for crowd control reasons then it should be lifted as soon as the last inbound passenger has cleared the ramp.

Which is how it should work, as long at platform staff are present to get the platform released.

Staffing levels are currently causing late releases to passengers, not some deliberate way to annoy and cause potential harm to them. If they are busy dispatching on another platform, it could add several minutes and mean a late platform announcement.

That can be observed on the rare occasion a LNR service is called in good time - people just wander down and wait by the doors.

Maybe not having reservations helps with that. Not fighting over a limited number of unreserved seats.

 

[Birkonian]

An 11-coach Pendolino is 265 metres, so, yes, 5 minutes for that length is a good estimate - but one would hope that, at a station will such an allergy to passengers on the platform as Euston, they would be told to board an intermediate coach and walk up before the train closed doors and left. TfL's estimate may also be on the conservative side as 5km/h is 3mph, which, according to Goggle Maps, is average walking pace.

What you say sounds sensible but have you tried to walk through an Avanti (any?) train with a heavy suitcase. It is very difficult and slow.

 

[Craig1122]

Station management still not grasping why this happens...

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEUS/status/1775226008922169755?t=3uEOkys6dLhHfj7V6JRyoQ&s=19

Tweet from Euston station:

While our team gets you safely on the move, please wait on the concourse until your platform is announced.

Trains are leaving but they are also arriving and waiting in the corridors causes congestion.

Sorry for the disruption today, please keep updated with @nationalrailenq