What would be the contingency plan if an emergency closed one or both lines on the day of the event?
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Chiltern Railways refuse to serve Wembley Stadium when Euston - Birmingham is closed.
- Thread starter miklcct
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The situation described was “which of these 2 trains in adjacent platforms is going to depart first”, and I would agree that, particularly at times of disruption, departure boards often give incorrect information. However, when they do, it’s rare for any delay to be more than the odd minute or two - and if it is, it’s often due to a subsequent issue which couldn’t have been reflected on the departure board anyway.
As was demonstrated during a tube strike, Chiltern still wouldn't call at Wembley on safety grounds if they were the only operator in the area that was operating any sort of service.
With equal justification on the grounds of risk of dangerous overcrowding.
The vast majority of those will be well catered for at Wembley Park.
How many of those people do you think would benefit from being able to travel from Wembley Stadium to Birmingham, and how would you convey that number at the time they would want to travel?
Would conveying these people result in fewer people being conveyed from London to Birmingham, and what would you do about that?
It comes across that you want the Chiltern timetable to be based around your preferences and desires to avoid doubling-back.
What service pattern are you proposing, exactly? Would your proposal be a more efficient use of the resources available?
Rather than ask why Chiltern don't do whatever it is you are proposing (which really isn't clear), the onus is on you to fully explain your proposal and to justify why you think they should impement it.
How many passengers do you think would attempt to change at High Wycombe, and what route do you intend for the "discouraged" passengers take?
So you got a train to Lewisham when travelling towards Lewisham; therefore not the "wrong" train by any reasonable definition. "Sub-optimal" in terms of being a few seconds later than you might have been, perhaps, but not "wrong".
If you find it stressful that you could get a train which is overtaken by another, or not the first to depart, then this is highly unusual. I would suggest you seek advice for managing stress, as these situations are not going to go away, and there is no way to eliminate them.
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I would advise against doing this; it's not safe to do that, and you could miss both trains.
You really need to seek the advice of a professional who can help you, as otherwise you are risking putting yourself, and others, in danger by running, as well as putting even more stress on yourself when, one day, you not only miss the train that went first, but end up missing the second train too.
Not only that but such attempts to get the first departing service could still see you disappointed if the other train overtakes, which is very possible. At a station such as London Bridge, a few seconds gained by being on the 'first departing' train can easily be lost if your train waits for a platform, or deposits you at a less convenient platform than the other train would have.
This is not a "problem" for anyone other than a miniscule proportion of the population (I've never seen or heard of anyone else being affected by this); the solution is for you to learn how to cope with not always being able to take the absolute first train that will arrive at your destination. The rail industry cannot change to accommodate your stress of fearing you are not on the first available train.
miklcct
On Moderation
Do you think that those need to go back in the north west direction after a Wembley event are just a minority? I expect that a large number will have to travel from Wembley Central to Watford Junction to pick up Avanti for half of the country (the closure involved is Rugby - Birmingham International, i.e. not affecting Milton Keynes / Manchester / Liverpool / Glasgow / etc.).
The tube is designed to get as many people onto the first available train as possible, to the extent that they even encourage everyone to take the first available train as far as possible and change as necessary even it is for the wrong branch.
In my opinion all regional and commuter railways should totally adopt this kind of working as well, that's why I would like all trains to run on fixed calling patterns, with only one fixed set of stopping patterns per pair of lines, like how the Elizabeth line operates in the core and in the eastern section. This is how capacity is maximised on a railway.
It's not going to be the majority.
I don't see how any of this is relevant, but if you are at somewhere like Baker St, passengers for the more distant trains would generally board the through service, especially if it's already at one of the bay platforms. I am not aware of any attempts to dissuade people from doing this.
It would not maximise capacity.
I can confirm that for almost every Wembley Stadium event, those attendees who need to head in the north west direction by train when it has finished are a small minority. For a Taylor Swift concert, it will be single digit %, and almost all of them will want the Met / Jubilee from Wembley Park (mostly for their cars parked at Stanmore or Hillingdon) or Overground from Wembley Central. Even for a football match where both teams are from the West Midlands or North West, it will be a minority. (Especially if it involves Man U).
What journey are you actually trying to make ‘door to door’? I’m sure the forum experts can help you. I think you live in the Willesden / Cricklewood / Brent Cross triangle of delight; as an example a train journey Willesden Jn (or Wembley Central if you prefer) > Watford Jn > Nuneaton > Birmingham New St is straightforward and around 2h45, which is quicker than the usual services and connections would be from Wembley Stadium to Birmingham Moor St on a Saturday morning (3h). Or Brent Cross West > Luton > Kettering > Leicester > Birmingham New St has good connections and a little over three hours.
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It seems clear that the OP has a highly unusual set of requirements for them to use a modern transport network, and seems to think that the network should be changed to accommodate those requirements, without recognising that they would adversely impact the efficient running of the network for the benefit of the majority of passengers who seem to be able to cope perfectly adequately with the way it is currently set up.
Regional and 'commuter' railways are not the tube.
What happens on a railway like the ECML with your idea of fixed calling patterns? Is everything on the fast lines going to call at Finsbury Park? If so I look forward to being able to travel from Edinburgh to Finsbury Park.
Then what happens at a station like Stevenage? It would be complete overkill to have every fast line service calling there and mean massive increases in journey times for long distance journeys. But if you say no fast line trans can call at Stevenage passengers would be relegated to slow line only trains resulting in a massive increase in journey times.
Living in the West Hampstead/Cricklewood area surely, and I think you well know, that Finchley Road coach stop is ideal for your Birmingham outbound trip. I had a quick look and National Express and Flix Bus have morning departures. I couldnt quite check if Megabus did. Although we are probably all supporters and users of train travel, on this occasion to my mind this would be a good option and possibly not to much of a time penalty.
You can see start timings here. Show duration is 195 minutes.
miklcct
On Moderation
I have checked coach departures, but they don't have a regular headway, with occasionally long gaps between departures. This is important for my return as I aim to get home as soon as possible, and a coach service (alighting at Finchley Road) is competitive if I can turn up and go.
It's extremely competitive if you rule out the other options. You probably want to book, as the coach will have some passengers switching from rail.
Unfortunately, in the real world “possible” and “desirable” are not always the same…
miklcct
On Moderation
I have finally decided that "adding 13 km to the direct rail route" is still less evil than "taking a coach which travels for an even longer distance" despite not needing to enter Central London, because the route between Birmingham coach station and the M6 motorway, and the call at Milton Keynes Coachway, adds an even longer distance compared to travelling via Central London, making the coach not time-competitive.
However, by comparing the date I want to travel and the next weekend, the journey is still 10 minutes longer due to the double-back, as on 29 June there are direct trains from Birmingham calling at Wembley due to an event (Green Day), which Google suggests that I can get off at Wembley Stadium, bus to Wembley Park and tube back home which saves 10 minutes against a double back.
However, by comparing the date I want to travel and the next weekend, the journey is still 10 minutes longer due to the double-back, as on 29 June there are direct trains from Birmingham calling at Wembley due to an event (Green Day), which Google suggests that I can get off at Wembley Stadium, bus to Wembley Park and tube back home which saves 10 minutes against a double back.
Well I can understand that, purely out of curiosity which is a posh word for being nosy, with 36/40 hours to go what have you decided on, for your choice of travel to Birmingham and return.
boiledbeans2
Member
Taylor Swift is playing Wembley today. Foo Fighters are playing London Stadium today. The Jubilee line will be doing hard work.
Anyway, here's a BBC news article on the issue:
www.bbc.co.uk
Anyway, here's a BBC news article on the issue:
Taylor Swift fans warned of Wembley Stadium rail disruption
Swifties are urged to plan ahead as engineering disrupts weekend trains during the Eras Tour.
www.bbc.co.uk
greatkingrat
Established Member
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I bet you wasted a lot more than 10 minutes agonising over which route to take though!
But it gave several of us a good chance to improve our knowledge of NW London's public transport
The 10min hypothetical saving would probably be wiped out by getting caught in crowds.
miklcct
On Moderation
Has anyone had experience travelling through Wembley, by getting off a Chiltern train at Wembley Stadium, taking a bus to Wembley Park and tube towards West Hampstead (this is what Google tells me to do if the journey is on 29 June), at a time when a Wembley event just finishes?But it gave several of us a good chance to improve our knowledge of NW London's public transport
The 10min hypothetical saving would probably be wiped out by getting caught in crowds.
No-one with any common sense would try that. You may have to go a longer way round, and you would have to queue at Wembley Park.
It may be difficult to even get off at Wembley Stadium; I don't know if Chiltern make such trains pick up only, but they probably should.
If you could beat the crowds and arrive before the rush, that would be a different prospect. But exact dispersal times could be difficult to predict (especially for sporting events).
The best advice I can give is to stay away from Wembley when a large scale event has just finished.
Walking up Wembley Way won't be straightforward and you'll have to queue to enter Wembley Park station.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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The last time I was at Wembley for a football match, it was the best part of an hour from leaving the stadium to getting on a train at Wembley Park, most of which was queuing.
So what did you do yesterday? Outbound and return
miklcct
On Moderation
Jubilee from Willesden Green to Baker Street, Chiltern from Marylebone to Moor Street, WMR from New Street to University. Same in the return. The Chiltern train was mostly empty both ways, with less than half of the seats occupied.
The timing was follows:
Outward
Jubilee 13:39:27 - 13:51:40
Chiltern 14:01:48 - 16:04:56
WMR 16:15:12 - 16:22:32
Return
WMR 19:56:59 - 20:04:13
Chiltern 20:16:54 - 22:16:50
Jubilee 22:25:24 - 22:36:59
On both ways it took me about 29 minutes to do the double-back between Willesden Green and London.
boiledbeans2
Member
I have attended quite a number of big concerts in Wembley in recent years. The roads around Wembley Stadium would be closed for big events. Buses will be diverted. For example, checking the TfL website right now for the Taylor Swift concert, it says:
Expect delays and gridlock on the roads. I would suggest avoiding the Wembley area altogether.
One possiblity to avoid this would be Chiltern -> West Ruislip -> Walk/bus -> Ickenham - > Metropolitan & Jubiilee -> West Hampstead.
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miklcct
On Moderation
Anyway, after seeing the social media reactions on the notice about the withdrawal of service, I have submitted an escalation to London Travelwatch copying my conversation with Chiltern Railways customer service, and they have accepted my case. I have also asked them if such an act to withdraw train services violates any franchise commitment.
I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.
I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.
Good grief. What are you trying to achieve?
What you have done here is cause many people to spend several hours of review, investigation and writing replies, when they coud better spend their time working to actually improve sevrices forthe majority of passengers.
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