1972 Tube Stock refurbishment

[YSTrains]

Hi. I've started a discussion on refurbishment. I would like to know more about the refurbishment programme and the updates so far.

 

[Lewlew]

So far 4(?) units have been fitted with saloon LED lights.

It's all going to be done at different times. Some work at Stonebridge Park and some work at Acton

And it's not really a refurbishment, new seat coverings and flooring was done a couple of years ago.

It's all about RVAR works. So wheelchair bay, audio and visual announcements etc

The saloon LED lights are being added to reduce the strain on the batteries so there's enough juice to power the new DVA

 

[londontransit]

There's also a hybrid unit consisting of three cars with analogue lights and four cars with LEDs. Got several pics & videos of it. 3338 is the northern end of the four and 3455 the southern end of the three.

 

[Lewlew]

Bakerloo trains are made up of 3 car and 4 car units, 3 car on the north end (35xx) and 4 car on the south end (32xx).

Units are moved around trains all the time. They won't stay together for much longer thana couple of months.

 

[londontransit]

Bakerloo trains are made up of 3 car and 4 car units, 3 car on the north end (35xx) and 4 car on the south end (32xx).

Units are moved around trains all the time. They won't stay together for much longer thana couple of months.

As one who uses the Bakerloo every day, keeping a regular record of its going ons thats something I have noticed!

Despite assertions being made back in 2016 we still haven't seen our first RVAR unit. The first was promised for 2020. The introduction of Harrington humps at Oxford Circus in early 2021 was no doubt in preparation for this. No doubt COVID put this programme back a bit.

 

[YSTrains]

What about the destination board? Would that be refitted with LEDs? Also any news on the cab lights?

 

[Lewlew]

TfL got an extension on the RVAR deadline of 2020, the original deadline was 2022 I believe.

Lots of work is planned for this year. There is one unit at Acton being used as a test bed for the wheelchair bay and moving equipment from under the seats etc.

I do have some photos somewhere that I'm trying to find.

 

[Nym]

Seems this project is going far too slowly for anyone's benefit.

I remember some 7 years ago laying out the concept for the wheelchair bays in the "45" cars, with all the associated re-work of the underframe equipment needed and just how it would all work. Then, having all of that amount to a lot of "TfL" with not much actually happening, other than a lot, and I mean a lot, of very silly ideas.

 

[DanNCL]

I recognise it’s required by RVAR but I do have to wonder why an exemption on the wheelchair bay requirement wasn’t granted for the 72 stock - the Bakerloo is one of the least-step free lines on the network, what journeys would a wheelchair passenger actually be able to make on the Bakerloo? All good and well making the trains wheelchair accessible but it’s pointless if the stations aren’t accessible. I believe (although I could be mistaken) that SPT got an exemption for their current Subway trains from the wheelchair bay requirement of RVAR on the basis that they only served a limited number of accessible stations.

Are new door open/close tones also part of the RVAR mods, or have LU got an exemption from that requirement for the 72 stock?

RVAR non-compliance does appear to be being taken more seriously now across the industry than previously which may be partly why the 72 stock mods are to speed up this year. As an example, the few retained unrefurbished units on the Tyne & Wear Metro had been exempt from RVAR compliance but those units recently received RVAR mods despite only having 2 years left in service, considerably less time than the 72 stock has to carry on for!

As an aside, presumably the new DVA will see the existing Emma Clarke announcements replaced by new announcements, does anyone know who will voice the announcements on the new DVA?

 

[JonathanH]

the Bakerloo is one of the least-step free lines on the network, what journeys would a wheelchair passenger actually be able to make on the Bakerloo?

Level interchange with the Victoria Line at Oxford Circus, with the Jubilee Line at Baker Street and accessible at Willesden Junction, Wembley Central and Harrow & Wealdstone with the help of a manual ramp. Not much but not nothing either.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As an aside, presumably the new DVA will see the existing Emma Clarke announcements replaced by new announcements, does anyone know who will voice the announcements on the new DVA?

While following patterns might suggest Sarah Parnell, the fact she wasn’t used for the NLE makes me wonder if her and TFL have recently parted ways. You could see Elinor Hamilton straining her very much naturally-Lancashire voice into an RP for the new announcements perhaps, or just adding additional bits to Clarke’s such as Parnell on the Central Line.

 

[londontransit]

Level interchange with the Victoria Line at Oxford Circus, with the Jubilee Line at Baker Street and accessible at Willesden Junction, Wembley Central and Harrow & Wealdstone with the help of a manual ramp. Not much but not nothing either.

There's also partial interchange with the Jubilee Line at Waterloo plus lifts to the surface. This has been known for years. Before anyone disputes that, there is indeed level interchange, but its dependent on one being aware of the difficulties. Its not an official level boarding location but its possible to an extent (I know some wheelchair users are just absolutely determined to get anywhere on the tube never mind those escalators and stairs or those pesky lifts that only go half the distance - and those wheelchair blobs on a tube map are a total limitation as to what they can do and where they can go.) I would stress that Waterloo's is much better achieved via the Jubilee Line however I've written about the Bakerloo's access point on my blog (towards the bottom of that page.)

 

[Nym]

Are new door open/close tones also part of the RVAR mods, or have LU got an exemption from that requirement for the 72 stock?

Yes, with some over-complicated associated delay circuits that need to have a significant improvement in door engine maintenance.

RVAR non-compliance does appear to be being taken more seriously now across the industry than previously which may be partly why the 72 stock mods are to speed up this year. As an example, the few retained unrefurbished units on the Tyne & Wear Metro had been exempt from RVAR compliance but those units recently received RVAR mods despite only having 2 years left in service, considerably less time than the 72 stock has to carry on for!

I strongly suspect the reason for the speed up now is more related to management and engineering personnel changes within TfL more than anything else.

 

[A60stock]

What's wrong with the current door close chimes? Why do they need to be changed? By that logic, would the 73/92/95/96 stocks also need theirs to be updated too?

The 72 stock has no chimes when the doors open, so I would doubt there are plans to add this?

 

[Nym]

Needs a distinct open and close chime. And a 2 second delay between chime and starting to close.

 

[YSTrains]

Will the LEDs replace the current destination board, aswell as the old front end bulbs? They also have started to remove the carriage end lights, just like it first used to be.

 

[Lewlew]

Will the LEDs replace the current destination board, aswell as the old front end bulb?

I believe the manual destination on the front is staying the same.

LED headlights will be rolled out. There is one unit (3299) that was fitted with them on a trial but that trial has lasted about 2.5 years now. They were meant to be done during regular maintenance at Stonebridge Park but staff shortages delayed the project. (Mainly due to covid)

 

[YSTrains]

I believe the manual destination on the front is staying the same.

LED headlights will be rolled out. There is one unit (3299) that was fitted with them on a trial but that trial has lasted about 2.5 years now. They were meant to be done during regular maintenance at Stonebridge Park but staff shortages delayed the project. (Mainly due to covid)

Any installations of LEDs inside the train? I know there will be improvements on disabilities.

 

[Nym]

Also a separate project and supplier for the headlights. Will likely be BMAC rather than MARL.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They also have started to remove the carriage end lights, just like it first used to be.

Thank goodness for that; they are nothing but an uncomfortable source of glare in the eyes.

 

[Lewlew]

They also have started to remove the carriage end lights, just like it first used to be.

The trains without the ring lights at the end of the cars are the ones with the new LED lights. They aren't needed as the LEDs are so much brighter (at least until the diffusers fill up with dust) and that's where the power supplies for the new lights are.

 

[Dstock7080]

TfL got an extension on the RVAR deadline of 2020, the original deadline was 2022 I believe.

Lots of work is planned for this year. There is one unit at Acton being used as a test bed for the wheelchair bay and moving equipment from under the seats etc.

I do have some photos somewhere that I'm trying to find.

 

[YSTrains]

Great. Work has resumed for the 72 stock to be RVAR compliant.

 

[rebmcr]

You've embedded the small size of a photo from Flickr — could you please link to the Flickr page so that it's possible to zoom in and take a closer look? (And to credit the author).

Ah I see it is marked private. https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?rb=1&short=2mWTfuw

 

[Mikey C]

So seats taken out and replaced with horrible perch ones, great...

I hope they'll at least put tip up seats in the space, it's weird that the 95s have tip up seats, whereas the 96s have perch ones. And as the S7s and S8s also have tip up seats, it's not as if TfL have stopped specifying them

 

[Nym]

There isn't enough space for tip up seats, the required wheelchair space and enough space for a thoroughfare.
And no, there isn't any way the perch area can be made smaller to accommodate the seats.

 

[JonathanH]

There isn't enough space for tip up seats, the required wheelchair space and enough space for a thoroughfare.
And no, there isn't any way the perch area can be made smaller to accommodate the seats.

Is it just in the 33xx carriage at the middle of the train?

 

[Lewlew]

It'll be in the 45 car. Car 2 northbound. Car 6 southbound.

 

[Nym]

Is it just in the 33xx carriage at the middle of the train?

It's the 45 car.
The "Middle Motor", "D Motor" or "33" car was checked for feasability, but there is significantly more equipment under the transverse seatbays in the motor cars, and the floor penetrations are highly complex to move. Compared with the Special Trailer, which in spite of having two Air Supply Units to move, was a relatively trivial (although the contractors in question took long enough) move of equipment to flatten the floor.

 

[londontransit]

Bakerloo trains are made up of 3 car and 4 car units, 3 car on the north end (35xx) and 4 car on the south end (32xx).

Units are moved around trains all the time. They won't stay together for much longer thana couple of months.

Just for information the Bakerloo has another hybrid unit! I rode it today southbound. 3350 north end/3450 south end (of three car unmodified - one of the worst graffiti hit units) and 3355 the north end of the four car modified unit. Train was on 205.