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22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

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philjo

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I see that Matt Hancock has said on BBC Breakfast that he wants it to become "social norms" rather than through legislation that people would, for example, chose to wear face masks if they were travelling on public transport. (See the 08:31 entry)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56166009

'Too early to say' when social distancing might end - Hancock​


BBC Breakfast
Health Secretary Matt Hancock is appearing on the BBC's morning programmes today.
He says it is "too early to say" how long social distancing measures will need to be in place.
But that he wants it to become "social norms" rather than through legislation that people would, for example, chose to wear face
masks if they were travelling on public transport.

Personally I would be happy with complying with that. However I would be less likely to want to travel long distances by train/bus if most other passengers are not wearing face coverings so would prefer them to be mandatory and be the very last restriction to be eased.
 
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Cdd89

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I've yet to hear any justification for why hotels can't open on the same date.
They will be open (unless the government plans a more restrictive change in the law); just with the same restrictions as now applied to “stay overnight”.

In fact I would speculate that the following is what we will end up with from 29th March, and from 12th April it'll be much the same but with further specific caveats to include second homes and holiday lettings:


6.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, stay overnight at any place other than the place where they are living [F33or where their linked household is living]
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include cases where—
(a)P needs to stay elsewhere to attend a funeral, as—
(i)a member of the deceased person’s household,
(ii)a close family member of the deceased person, or
(iii)if no-one within paragraph (i) or (ii) is attending, a friend of the deceased person;
(b)P is an elite athlete, a coach of an elite athlete, or (in the case of an elite athlete who is under the age of 18), a parent of the elite athlete, and needs to stay elsewhere for the purposes of training or competition;
(c)P needs to stay elsewhere while moving house;
(d)it is reasonably necessary for P to stay elsewhere—
(i)for work purposes, or for the provision of voluntary or charitable services;
(ii)to provide care or assistance to a vulnerable person, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006;
(iii)to provide emergency assistance;
(iv)to avoid injury or illness, or to escape a risk of harm;
(v)to obtain medical assistance;
[F34(vi)to enable P to attend a birth or make a visit as permitted by regulation 7(2)(g), (h) or (i);]
(e)P needs to stay elsewhere to fulfil a legal obligation or participate in legal proceedings;
(f)P is a child that does not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents, and the overnight stay is necessary to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children;
(g)P is unable to return to the place where P lives, because—
(i)it is not safe for P to live there,
(ii)P may not lawfully travel there, or is required by law to stay in another place, or
(iii)the place where P is living is not available to P for any other reason.

As you can see there are actually quite a lot of circumstances that could need you to stay in a hotel.
 

Huntergreed

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I see that Matt Hancock has said on BBC Breakfast that he wants it to become "social norms" rather than through legislation that people would, for example, chose to wear face masks if they were travelling on public transport. (See the 08:31 entry)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56166009


Personally I would be happy with complying with that. However I would be less likely to want to travel long distances by train/bus if most other passengers are not wearing face coverings so would prefer them to be mandatory.
Nobody sensible in their right mind will do it “voluntarily”. Either they legislate (which ends in June) or it doesn’t happen. If he’s suggesting distancing and masks are to become the “norm”, then get me on the next flight out of here!
 

Watershed

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They will be open (unless the government plans a more restrictive change in the law); just with the same restrictions as now applied to “stay overnight”.

In fact I would speculate that the following is what we will end up with from 29th March, and from 12th April it'll be much the same but with further specific caveats to include second homes and holiday lettings:





As you can see there are actually quite a lot of circumstances that could need you to stay in a hotel.
Oh absolutely, but I am referring to when any member of the public can stay in a hotel, rather than just those who are officially eligible or those who give a duff reason.
 

Ianno87

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Nobody sensible in their right mind will do it “voluntarily”. Either they legislate (which ends in June) or it doesn’t happen. If he’s suggesting distancing and masks are to become the “norm”, then get me on the next flight out of here!

I certainly don't think they'll vanish overnight as soon as the legislation disappears; some people will (rightly or wrongly) feel more comfortable continuing to wear them for some time to come. But it'll largely slowly "die out" over time.
 

joncombe

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However I would be less likely to want to travel long distances by train/bus if most other passengers are not wearing face coverings so would prefer them to be mandatory and be the very last restriction to be eased.
Well I would be much less likely to want to travel long distances by public transport if I am expected to have to wear a mask for the duration. It's not comfortable or pleasant and I have an alternative (a car) which I'll use instead if that is the case. I used to regularly make 4 hour plus journeys by train, but I won't be doing that whilst face coverings are mandatory.
 

bengley

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I see that Matt Hancock has said on BBC Breakfast that he wants it to become "social norms" rather than through legislation that people would, for example, chose to wear face masks if they were travelling on public transport. (See the 08:31 entry)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56166009


Personally I would be happy with complying with that. However I would be less likely to want to travel long distances by train/bus if most other passengers are not wearing face coverings so would prefer them to be mandatory and be the very last restriction to be eased.
Excellent, well I look forward to travelling on a train in the coming months without you on it!
 

Bantamzen

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I certainly don't think they'll vanish overnight as soon as the legislation disappears; some people will (rightly or wrongly) feel more comfortable continuing to wear them for some time to come. But it'll largely slowly "die out" over time.
I think this is a good assessment. There will be some people who will continue to wear them beyond mandation, and I suspect there will be those occasions where some will make issue of others not wearing them. But over time I'm sure they will become fewer and fewer.
 

initiation

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Personally I would be happy with complying with that. However I would be less likely to want to travel long distances by train/bus if most other passengers are not wearing face coverings so would prefer them to be mandatory and be the very last restriction to be eased.

From an economic point of view I am certain that by the time we reach summer more people would be put off having to wear a mask on a long (say 2 hr+) journey than would demand it for safety.

If this is such an issue though perhaps we can have a designated mask carraige where those who wish to wear them can do? Although no reason that couldn't be implemented now in reverse where we have designated no-mask carraiges (and opening times in shops etc...)
 

DustyBin

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Nobody sensible in their right mind will do it “voluntarily”. Either they legislate (which ends in June) or it doesn’t happen. If he’s suggesting distancing and masks are to become the “norm”, then get me on the next flight out of here!

Agreed, who in the right mind wants a dirty piece of fabric stuck to their face? I do the bare minimum I need to do to comply with the law, purely to avoid conflict.

I certainly don't think they'll vanish overnight as soon as the legislation disappears; some people will (rightly or wrongly) feel more comfortable continuing to wear them for some time to come. But it'll largely slowly "die out" over time.

Probably, I think some people have developed a bizarre fetish for the things! Mine will be ceremonially burnt.

Well I would be much less likely to want to travel long distances by public transport if I am expected to have to wear a mask for the duration. It's not comfortable or pleasant and I have an alternative (a car) which I'll use instead if that is the case. I used to regularly make 4 hour plus journeys by train, but I won't be doing that whilst face coverings are mandatory.

As somebody who’s done this it’s awful. The best thing to do is sip a drink or eat a snack for the duration of the journey. If you’re wearing a mask for that length of time you should of course change it at least once as well, not that anybody does!
 
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Bald Rick

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Most accommodation meeting that criteria isn't really accessible by rail. Even if you are happy walking a few miles along country lanes with luggage from the station, you've then got the issue of what you're going to do in the middle of nowhere without a car and how you'll get fresh food.

Oh I don’t know. Look at AirBnB for any given major city or coastal resort.
 

Ianno87

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Probably, I think some people have developed a bizarre fetish for the things! Mine will be ceremonially burnt.

It will feel odd not wearing one the first few times in trains or in shops as I'm sort of used to them by now.

I think some people will keep wearing them for a little while as long as they see others wearing them so as not to be the "odd one out".

But I think anybody expecting seeing others in masks to vanish instantaneously from day to day life will be disappointed.

Oh I don’t know. Look at AirBnB for any given major city or coastal resort.

By all accounts, half of all property in Edinburgh is AirBnB these days!
 

peters

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Oh I don’t know. Look at AirBnB for any given major city or coastal resort.

By all accounts, half of all property in Edinburgh is AirBnB these days!

While there are a number of popular tourist places where a large number of properties are only used as AirBnB, there are also a number of AirBnB properties which aren't self contained or which would only be available while the usual occupant is away.

As the rules are different for Scotland, Bath would probably be a better example than Edinburgh. However, worth remembering at stage 2 that most indoor venues will be closed and while hospitality venues will be able to serve customer sat outdoors the weather in April can be quite unpredictable so someone might end up with a beer glass which keeps refilling itself and contains very watery beer!
 

PTR 444

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Most accommodation meeting that criteria isn't really accessible by rail. Even if you are happy walking a few miles along country lanes with luggage from the station, you've then got the issue of what you're going to do in the middle of nowhere without a car and how you'll get fresh food.
I suppose it’s doable if you’re the kind of person that can travel light (1 rucksack per person max) and is content with buying lunch from a convenience store every day. You could treat it like a long walking holiday.
 

Bikeman78

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Indeed, although my initial response wasn't Welsh specific.
Agreed but the almost complete lack of masks in Wales last summer proves your point. If we didn't need them last year with no vaccine, why have them this year with half the population vaccinated?
 

DorkingMain

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I don't particularly care about masks anymore - I've worn one every day at work since June and at this point you start to forget it's there.

Social distancing is a much bigger scourge.

I also suspect the "schools first" element of the roadmap is to give a definitive indication of whether it *was* schools causing a massive amount of transmission
 

Ianno87

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I also suspect the "schools first" element of the roadmap is to give a definitive indication of whether it *was* schools causing a massive amount of transmission

But that's going to be hard to judge with the notably milder weather now arriving.
 

island

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Key quote from yesterday which should be pasted on every wall in every government building

“There is no credible route to a zero Covid Britain or a zero Covid World, and we cannot persist indefinitely with restrictions that debilitate our economy, our physical and mental well-being, and the life chances of our children.”
 

DustyBin

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Key quote from yesterday which should be pasted on every wall in every government building

“There is no credible route to a zero Covid Britain or a zero Covid World, and we cannot persist indefinitely with restrictions that debilitate our economy, our physical and mental well-being, and the life chances of our children.”

Great quote, hopefully the zero covid brigade will at some point understand!
 

philosopher

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..on which you'll be asked to wear a mask?

In all seriousness masks aren't going to become the norm.
Perhaps those with colds will wear them when going to the supermarket or when using public transport, but I suspect that is as far as it will go.
 

Mintona

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I can’t imagine trying to force people to wear a facemask in a nightclub, so I would imagine that the day nightclubs open is the day facemasks are no longer mandatory.
 

Ianno87

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Perhaps those with colds will wear them when going to the supermarket or when using public transport, but I suspect that is as far as it will go.

I know it's an unpopular viewpoint with some, but I think this might catch-on with a few people on a purely voluntary basis.
 

Yew

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I know it's an unpopular viewpoint with some, but I think this might catch-on with a few people on a purely voluntary basis.
Purely voluntary being the key words there.
 

MikeWM

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I know it's an unpopular viewpoint with some, but I think this might catch-on with a few people on a purely voluntary basis.

If people going around with colds want to keep a piece of germ-ridden cloth attached to their face rather than follow the far more sensible 'catch it, bin it, kill it' - yes, of course that should be up to them, even though it is rather silly.
 

Bald Rick

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I know it's an unpopular viewpoint with some, but I think this might catch-on with a few people on a purely voluntary basis.

Agree. Mask wearing was not uncommon in parts of Asia pre Covid for example. Presumably because of local experience with SARS.
 

Ianno87

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If people going around with colds want to keep a piece of germ-ridden cloth attached to their face rather than follow the far more sensible 'catch it, bin it, kill it' - yes, of course that should be up to them, even though it is rather silly.

Agree. Mask wearing was not uncommon in parts of Asia pre Covid for example. Presumably because of local experience with SARS.

It is quite noticeable how much having general "sniffles" have reduced in the last 12 months for example.
 

Bantamzen

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Agree. Mask wearing was not uncommon in parts of Asia pre Covid for example. Presumably because of local experience with SARS.
People in that part of the world often wore masks when they had a respiratory illness. And a lot of that comes down to the fact that in some countries like Japan in particular, taking time off work is frowned upon. We've covered this argument at least a half dozen times over the months on these threads.
 

duncanp

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If people going around with colds want to keep a piece of germ-ridden cloth attached to their face rather than follow the far more sensible 'catch it, bin it, kill it' - yes, of course that should be up to them, even though it is rather silly.

As well as "Catch it, kill it, bin it" people should be encouraged to carry a small bottle of hand sanitiser with them, so that they can clean their hands afterwards.

This will help people to stop spreading germs by touching surfaces with dirty hands, and it is far more effective than masks, which give people a false sense of security and can do more harm than good.
 

Mintona

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It is quite noticeable how much having general "sniffles" have reduced in the last 12 months for example.

I’ve had a near constant sniffle for about 6 months now. Haven’t been able to clear my throat properly in ages.
 
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