49€ Ticket to come and worry about slashing rail services

[U-Bahnfreund]

Do we already know how you can cancel the subscription? A BahnCard subscription can be cancelled using an online form, so I wonder why would you expect this to be different for the €49 ticket.

Since the 49€ ticket will be sold by the individual transport companies and Verkehrsverbünde, I believe each of them will decide themselves how to administer cancellation of this ticket in detail (form, phone, or whatever).

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Germany has really nasty consumer laws in this respect. They often make it very difficult to cancel, and if you don't cancel in time, you're locked into a lengthy new contract with no means of leaving it.

People are used to the laws and just make a note to cancel by email, it takes a few seconds.

Fitness studios do have complicated contracts, but I do not know anyone who is a member.

I think that the exact way the ticket will be sold has not been decided yet. If it is a subscription lots of people are going to be ordering for a few months, then cancelling! One hopes the experts are thinking carefully about this.

 

[duesselmartin]

I only know people who are a member of a fitness studio but never go

As the Ticket is most likely app based, one can assume cancellation can be done on that app.

Yes. It is a ticket paid for by the German tax payer and therefore aimed at the German consumer who is used to subscription models.
It also makes sense for people who previously worked 5 days a week in an office and now works part of the week from home. For me it slashes commuter costs in half.

If you miss that deadline, you are only stuck with it for an extra month.

Martin

 

[riceuten]

1. As you can guess from my user name, I am not that far from Germany, so quite used to its ways, which are not so different from ours.

2. I find it completely justified that for such a remarkably (almost ridiculously) cheap ticket, which is hugely subsidized by the taxpayer, the Germans aim to reduce the bureaucratic amount in administrating it. Once you show me a UK nationwide public transport ticket (except for a number of long-distance services) at £50 that does not auto-renew, I might change my mind.

BTW the Austrian Klimaticket does not auto-renew, but can only be bought on a yearly basis. It being so cheap and so highly subsidized, it is aimed at people taking public-transport seriously and not just aim for a small number of cheap journeys whenever they feel like it. And quite rightly so.

It would be a free lunch otherwise… (it almost is anyway).

I'm struggling here that government subsidy apparently means you have to have rollover deals. Surely if ending the contract was so easy, then there would be little or no cost involved in doing so. The reality is the driver for rollover deals is people forgetting to cancel.

I looked at the "cancellation form" someone posted above - it's actually an email form, which may or may not be actioned by a human being.

 

[Austriantrain]

For me it slashes commuter costs in half.

The Austrian Klimaticket slashed my commuter costs by 50% and in addition gave me free travel in all of Austria (including RJ/IC etc) instead of just the city of Vienna and my regular rail line to work in a regional city close to Vienna.

In this, I think all these schemes are misguided. I don’t know your financial situation, but I could well afford the former price.

If someone can’t afford it, help them with social payments, but don’t subsidize those that are well-off.

I am all for affordable public-transport, but the general focus should not be a social one (that is the role of social policy), but a modal shift one, to encourage people to switch from cars.

The great advantage of these „all transport included“ tickets is that it saves all the hassle of even thinking what kind of ticket I need for any individual journey. That in itself is extremely attractive and efficient.

But that advantage does not depend on having a dirt-cheap ticket.

A nation-wide ticket should be significantly cheaper than using the car for someone who regularly needs to undertake journeys across the *country*.

A regional ticket should be significantly cheaper than using the car for someone who regularly needs to undertake journeys across the *region*.

And same for city tickets…

But a national ticket does not need to be significantly cheaper than regional car travel. That is not necesssry to encourage a switch to public transport for those regional journeys; all it does is to encourage to undertake journeys that would not have been done at all where it not for that cheap ticket. And that is of no use for modal switch or for the climate.

<rant over>

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting that the Austrian Klimaticket is an annual ticket for €1095 (€3 a day), and is valid on all services.
It also has cheaper regional versions and 25% discounts for young/old and other groups.
You can start on any day with the 12-month validity, and I see there is even a free bonus 13th month.

The German Deutschlandticket is a monthly subscription ticket at €49, so €588 for a full year, valid on regional/local services only, but over a much larger geography than Austria.
I haven't seen anything on regional versions or discounts.
Tickets are valid for one calendar month starting on the first day.

The ticket rather supplants the DB off-peak Day Tickets priced at €42 (Quer-durchs-Land-Ticket nationally) and around €22 (for regional tickets).
These do have good group supplements, but for individual travellers the national ticket hardly competes with a month's travel for a similar price, and seemingly with no time restrictions.

Spain's free offer is limited to local/regional routes too (also Avant short-range high speed services), and you have to nominate the route on which you will make multiple trips (single trips are excluded).
The tickets/cards have a one-time €10/20 deposit which is refunded if you complete sufficient journeys.
Essentially it's a free season ticket for a particular route, but not a free "go anywhere" ticket.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Look at this for a misleading article.

Row over Germany’s public transport ticket jumping from €9 to €49

Charities warn increase in monthly local travel pass will freeze out millions struggling with living costs

www.theguardian.com

Germany plans to replace its successful €9-a-month local public transport pass with a €49 version, a move that is drawing criticism from charities and social care groups who say the new price tag will freeze out millions of Germans suffering under the cost of living crisis.

I'm pretty sure that 49 per month is cheaper than anything that went before summer, even for the cheapest areas.

For longer distances, it's truly incredible to have the chance of paying 49 for a whole month, when currently some day tickets are not much less.

 

[Austriantrain]

Interesting that the Austrian Klimaticket is an annual ticket for €1095 (€3 a day), and is valid on all services.
It also has cheaper regional versions and 25% discounts for young/old and other groups.
You can start on any day with the 12-month validity, and I see there is even a free bonus 13th month.

The German Deutschlandticket is a monthly subscription ticket at €49, so €588 for a full year, valid on regional/local services only, but over a much larger geography than Austria.
I haven't seen anything on regional versions or discounts.
Tickets are valid for one calendar month starting on the first day.

Spain's free offer is limited to local/regional routes too (also Avant short-range high speed services), and you have to nominate the route on which you will make multiple trips (single trips are excluded).
The tickets/cards have a one-time €10/20 deposit which is refunded if you complete sufficient journeys.
Essentially it's a free season ticket for a particular route, but not a free "go anywhere" ticket.

As always, I think that the Swiss have got it mostly right. Their Generalabo costs about SFR 3800 a year for second class travel.

Considering the Swiss price level is about double the Austrian one, a Klimaticket price of about EUR 1900 a year would seem about right for Austria, and that would be a decent price.

 

[BahrainLad]

All subscription products are fundamentally dishonest? I really think I’ve read it all now.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Subscription can be very convenient, often it is a bit cheaper than trekking to the shop to buy a magazine, or queuing up on the first of the month to purchase a season. In particular, it ensures insurances do not lapse!

As for possible reductions in service: busy lines are being upgraded (RE1 Brandenburg - Frankfurt/Oder, three times an hour (irregular)) while smaller lines (Eberswalde - Templin) are closed altogether. Seems the wrong way round. I thought lots of people had taken to working at home several days a week.

 

[zero]

Cancelling should be as easy as purchasing and using the same methods possible for purchases. That means if you can click a button to subscribe instantly, there must be a button that allows you to unsubscribe instantly. If you can buy it by talking to a human on the phone, you must be able to cancel by talking to a human on the phone.

If it's based on calendar months, you should be able to cancel December's ticket right until 2359 on 30th Nov - that means you do not get charged before then as there is the possibility of cancellation. (From 0000 on 1st Dec if you haven't cancelled, you would be obliged to pay for December, even though in practice it wouldn't be possible to charge every subscriber right at midnight.)

 

[Re 4/4]

For what it's worth, the Swiss GA and half-fare cards are subscription based too now, via the SwissPass smartcard.

I don't think the model is fundamentally dishonest as long as cancelling is reasonably easy. For example, if subscribing is a few clicks but cancelling an auto-renew involves phoning a premium rate number and listening to the agent's marketing talk, I'd rate that as shoddy customer service.

I'm more concerned by the suggestion that the 49€ ticket would only be available as an app though.

 

[rvdborgt]

For what it's worth, the Swiss GA and half-fare cards are subscription based too now, via the SwissPass smartcard.

I don't think the model is fundamentally dishonest as long as cancelling is reasonably easy. For example, if subscribing is a few clicks but cancelling an auto-renew involves phoning a premium rate number and listening to the agent's marketing talk, I'd rate that as shoddy customer service.

That's also against EU consumer legislation, which AFAIK now requires that cancelling a subscription can be done the same way as taking one.

 

[Seehof]

Is there any news on this ticket including the way you have to cancel it? I am going to Germany in May

 

[duesselmartin]

The current planning for the Deutschlandticket is for April, but no official confirmation yet.

 

[yorksrob]

The Austrian Klimaticket slashed my commuter costs by 50% and in addition gave me free travel in all of Austria (including RJ/IC etc) instead of just the city of Vienna and my regular rail line to work in a regional city close to Vienna.

In this, I think all these schemes are misguided. I don’t know your financial situation, but I could well afford the former price.

If someone can’t afford it, help them with social payments, but don’t subsidize those that are well-off.

I am all for affordable public-transport, but the general focus should not be a social one (that is the role of social policy), but a modal shift one, to encourage people to switch from cars.

The great advantage of these „all transport included“ tickets is that it saves all the hassle of even thinking what kind of ticket I need for any individual journey. That in itself is extremely attractive and efficient.

But that advantage does not depend on having a dirt-cheap ticket.

A nation-wide ticket should be significantly cheaper than using the car for someone who regularly needs to undertake journeys across the *country*.

A regional ticket should be significantly cheaper than using the car for someone who regularly needs to undertake journeys across the *region*.

And same for city tickets…

But a national ticket does not need to be significantly cheaper than regional car travel. That is not necesssry to encourage a switch to public transport for those regional journeys; all it does is to encourage to undertake journeys that would not have been done at all where it not for that cheap ticket. And that is of no use for modal switch or for the climate.

<rant over>

But regional/national tickets are presumably not just about people who own a car, so is that cost necessarily the correct benchmark ?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Drehscheibe Online (German railfans forum) has some informed speculation. (Sorry, can not post a link).

Politicians have been using the term "Deutschlandticket", not "49€ ticket", and the price may be increased quite soon.

Still no information about how the subscription model might work. I would not be surprised if it starts later than the announced date, April 1.

Apparently updating the ticket systems for the simple 49€ ticket is not so simple. One might have thought that having millions of people paying the same price, instead of many different higher prices, would be easier to organise. Might "save" some jobs too.

 

[Austriantrain]

But regional/national tickets are presumably not just about people who own a car, so is that cost necessarily the correct benchmark ?

Since the purpose of the Austrian Klimaticket was precisely to encourage people to change over from car travel, I believe my benchmark is correct.

It would be different for regional seasons mainly aimed at commuters, but those tickets have existed in Austria for decades anyway.

 

[Seehof]

Is there any news yet on when Germany is going to introduce its €49 Deutschland ticket?

 

[duesselmartin]

The VRR authority estimates 1. May.

 

[riceuten]

There was something on the German news the other day I half listened to - the counties (laender) are STILL arguing about funding

 

[duesselmartin]

I think its more administrative matters now.
The financial arguement is how long that price can be sustained. Expect a fare hike next year.

German authorities agreed on May the first. One is suppose to be able to book it from 3. April.
The EU Commission have to give green light first though.

 

[Seehof]

Any new news about the Deutschlandticket yet?

 

[duesselmartin]

1st. of May is the official date. Some operators can temporarly offer a paper version. Later it will be phone or chip-card only.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It seems the Deutschlandticket has been approved by the Bundestag, and awaits a final vote of the upper house (Bundesrat) on March 31.
May 1 is the planned start date, with some regional content variations.
Apparently the subscription can be cancelled up to the 10th day of the month.

Germany gives green light to €49-a-month public transport ticket

Plan for ticket covering regional rail, metro, trams and buses across country follows success of €9 scheme last year

www.theguardian.com

The vote in parliament cleared the way for the national government to cover half of the scheme’s annual cost of €3bn for the next three years, with the other half paid for by Germany’s 16 federal states.
If, as expected, the €49 ticket is given the seal of approval by the German parliament’s upper house, the Bundesrat, on 31 March, the scheme will come into effect on 1 May.
...
The ticket, available in digital form via a smartphone app or as a chip card, will work on a subscription model that can be cancelled before the 10th day of each month, meaning it may still pay off as a one-off investment for some holidays or weekend trips.

 

[yorksrob]

What an excellent development and well done Germany.

When are we going to have our £43 monthly rail pass Mr Sunak ?

 

[blackfive460]

When are we going to have our £43 monthly rail pass Mr Sunak ?

Some time after we have a railway network that could cope I'd hope.
Or to put it another way; probably never.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What an excellent development and well done Germany.
When are we going to have our £43 monthly rail pass Mr Sunak ?

But not on LNER/XC/Avanti/GWR/TPE?
We don't really do the same IC/Regional/local fares segregation that Germany does.
The cost to the German state annually is €3 billion, half paid federally and half regionally (that's presumably from the lower revenue).

Mr Starmer hasn't mentioned anything similar, either.
But GB fares are in such a mess, the structure needs radical change before adding another layer of special offer.
Germany (and everywhere else in Europe) already has single leg pricing.

 

[yorksrob]

Some time after we have a railway network that could cope I'd hope.
Or to put it another way; probably never.

I've never travelled on it, but does the German railway network have vastly more capacity than we do ?

But not on LNER/XC/Avanti/GWR/TPE?
We don't really do the same IC/Regional/local fares segregation that Germany does.
The cost to the German state annually is €3 billion, half paid federally and half regionally (that's presumably from the lower revenue).

Mr Starmer hasn't mentioned anything similar, either.
But GB fares are in such a mess, the structure needs radical change before adding another layer of special offer.
Germany (and everywhere else in Europe) already has single leg pricing.

Fair point about the fares segregation. I guess IC services provide many regional journeys here. Presumably for it to work, all IC lines would have to have a "stopper". As it happens, I've often pontificated about a LNWR type service up the ECML.

Presumably such a ticket will force IC services to offer competitive fares.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Germany (and everywhere else in Europe) already has single leg pricing.

What do you mean by that?