Alighting from a rail replacement bus short of its destination.

[Leslie Fletcher]

My wife and I often travel by train from Manchester to Galashiels, on our way to visit family in Peebles. The next time we do this, on Sunday 2 April, it will involve a rail replacement bus from Carlisle to Edinburgh, which is likely to pass near to Peebles. Would we be permitted to alight at say, Biggar or Galashiels, from where we can easily be collected by family, thereby significantly reducing our journey time?

Does anybody know which route these rail replacement buses actually take?

Torrid experiences with Borders Buses make us unwilling to rely on the X95 between Carlisle and Galashiels.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You won't, by and large, be permitted to alight other than at a station.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Would we be permitted to alight at say, Biggar or Galashiels, from where we can easily be collected by family, thereby significantly reducing our journey time?

Rules say no, but it almost always winds up at the discretion of the driver.

 

[JonathanH]

Effectively anyone asking a replacement bus driver to stop anywhere other than a station is asking the driver to put their job at risk. It only takes an accident, or even someone on board to report the stop to the company, and that driver will be in trouble.

Don't do it.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I've managed to be dropped off outside my house a good few times on rail replacement services, although these were all late at night where I was the only passenger onboard.

Incidentally, all of these services were operated by the local cowboy independent.

 

[alxndr]

Suddenly feign travel sickness perhaps? I've seen someone dropped off quite rapidly when they started vomiting about 15 minutes into the journey.

 

[Roger1973]

Are you meaning getting off a rail replacement bus / coach at a scheduled stop short of where your ticket is valid to? If so, I doubt it would be an issue - rail replacement drivers and controllers are generally not expected to check tickets in detail - they migth check that passengers have a ticket before getting on, but they won't check tickets of people getting off, and you won't have to go through the ticket barriers. (seeing revenue protection staff round rail replacement services can happen, but it's a rarity.)

If however you mean getting off at somewhere the bus / coach isn't scheduled to stop...

There will be a set route for rail replacement buses / coaches, but it's not unknown for drivers to find their own way either because they think they know better, or they are aware of traffic congestion somewhere, or because they get lost. (And for that matter, if it's a rail replacement route that happens regularly, it's not unknown for the 'official' route to have been changed, but some drivers to follow the old official route.)

Unofficial stopping points are, as others have said, officially not made, but unofficially can sometimes be at the driver's discretion. I don't know that part of the world at all, so can't comment if there might even be somewhere safe to stop - would coach have to go through town centre or is there a by-pass or something?

The risks to the driver of stopping somewhere unofficial is that if the passenger has any sort of accident getting off, it's going to result in awkward questions, and if driver says 'yes' to one passenger and 'no' to another (even if the first location is safe and convenient and the second isn't), the disgruntled passenger/s might put in a complaint.

And if the passenger wanting an unofficial stop has got luggage in a boot / side locker of the coach, the answer will almost certainly be no.

 

[JonathanH]

if driver says 'yes' to one passenger and 'no' to another (even if the first location is safe and convenient and the second isn't), the disgruntled passenger/s might put in a complaint.

That is clearly a valid point. If the driver sets down in Peebles, it becomes difficult to turn down stops in the Edinburgh suburbs. If that mean the coach arrives late in Edinburgh and people miss timetabled connections, those passengers making the full journey absolutely have grounds to complain.

Are you meaning getting off a rail replacement bus / coach at a scheduled stop short of where your ticket is valid to?

The OP is asking about an extra 'unofficial' stop being made, not getting off at an official stop instead of the final destination. No one could argue with the latter case.

It wouldn't even be going via Peebles or Galashiels, mentioned in the original post. Most likely route is A74(M) / A702 via Biggar, but not guaranteed.

 

[Ian79]

If you're starting from Manchester rather than Carlisle and travelling to Edinburgh, I wouldn't recommend the 3 hour rail replacement bus anyway. I will be much quicker (and comfortable) to go via York. That's the route National Rail Enquiries recommends on that day - even from Carlisle taking the unbelievably slow route to Newcastle via Hexham and then on the ECML up to Edinburgh isn't much slower.

 

[LOL The Irony]

If you're starting from Manchester rather than Carlisle and travelling to Edinburgh, I wouldn't recommend the 3 hour rail replacement bus anyway. I will be much quicker (and comfortable) to go via York. That's the route National Rail Enquiries recommends on that day - even from Carlisle taking the unbelievably slow route to Newcastle via Hexham and then on the ECML up to Edinburgh isn't much slower.

Going via York means using TPE, who are very unreliable currently. Using the RRB may be a better option.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Effectively anyone asking a replacement bus driver to stop anywhere other than a station is asking the driver to put their job at risk. It only takes an accident, or even someone on board to report the stop to the company, and that driver will be in trouble.

Don't do it.

This is unnecessary. I'm sure the driver is perfectly capable of saying no, and whatever risks s/he chooses to take are down to him/her.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If you're starting from Manchester rather than Carlisle and travelling to Edinburgh, I wouldn't recommend the 3 hour rail replacement bus anyway. I will be much quicker (and comfortable) to go via York. That's the route National Rail Enquiries recommends on that day - even from Carlisle taking the unbelievably slow route to Newcastle via Hexham and then on the ECML up to Edinburgh isn't much slower.

I was about to say this, yes.

Going via York means using TPE, who are very unreliable currently. Using the RRB may be a better option.

They're unreliable, sure, but there are many fast TPE trains per hour between Manchester and Leeds, I'm sure there will be something for them to take and change onto XC, or LNER if they can get to York which they 90% chance will be able to.

Manchester to Edinburgh via Carlisle is also a TPE route, though I appreciate the West route is more reliable.

 

[JonathanH]

This is unnecessary. I'm sure the driver is perfectly capable of saying no, and whatever risks s/he chooses to take are down to him/her.

Yes, although you then have to live with the embarrassment of having asked and been told no.

It is not reasonable to ask a person doing their job to break rules, particularly if it puts them at any risk of losing that job. No one would think of asking a mainline train driver between Carlisle and Edinburgh to stop the train at Kirknewton to set them down. The same applies to a coach.

(It may be reasonable for 'control' to specify a stop in the instance of a missed connection, but that is a different matter, and above board.)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes, although you then have to live with the embarrassment of having asked and been told no.

It is not reasonable to ask a person doing their job to break rules, particularly if it puts them at any risk of losing that job. No one would think of asking a mainline train driver between Carlisle and Edinburgh to stop the train at Kirknewton to set them down. The same applies to a coach.

(It may be reasonable for 'control' to specify a stop in the instance of a missed connection, but that is a different matter, and above board.)

That's very amusingly hyperbolic; I'm sure such embarrassment wouldn't be too life-changing.

It's somewhat a self-righteous attitude you post of here, for something many drivers offer in my experience anyway. Not too long ago I asked what the best stop was for a certain beauty-spot, and was told the entrance was a mile away from the stop so he'd just drop me off at the entrance, and apparently many drivers on this route do the same. Similarly, the Stagecoach buses of my old secondary school used to drop off students at the top of the hill if they lived in the opposite direction to where the bus continued to - the stop wasn't for miles.

Anyway, I personally think on a booked rail replacement coach - particularly a long distance one - it won't be possible, so it's probably not even worth asking.

 

[DeverseSam]

Suddenly feign travel sickness perhaps? I've seen someone dropped off quite rapidly when they started vomiting about 15 minutes into the journey.

Or start vaping

 

[HSP 2]

I've just had a look at times from Manchester on Sunday 2/4/23 and this is what I've found.

Manchester Pic. d10;26 arrive Carlisle 12;20, d Carlisle 12;30 (bus) arrive Edinburgh 15;20 all T.P.E.

Manchester Vic. d 09;57 arrive York 11;37 Cross Country, York d. 11;55 arrive Edinburgh 14;20, L.N.E.R.

Manchester Vic. d,12;32 arrive Newcastle 15;13 d. Newcastle 16;14 arrive Edinburgh 18;04 all T.P.E.

So a lot will depend on what tickets the OP has, timed trains only, T.O.C. only etc.

 

[D6130]

If it's a replacement bus for a TPE service it will almost certainly have a scheduled stop at Lockerbie. Could your Peebles relatives pick you up from there?

 

[Class800]

You won't, by and large, be permitted to alight other than at a station.

Entirely at driver's discretion - seen it many times but not every driver will do it

 

[185]

Entirely at driver's discretion - seen it many times but not every driver will

As a non-registered private hire service there is nothing in law stopping the driver allowing people off in a safe place. Just potentially his employers or the hirer's rules.

Bribery usually works.

 

[pgfb1306]

Really depends on the operator. Most will come up through Biggar which is probably the closest you'll get to Peebles. However, quite a number with go right up the M74 and along the M8 which will be no use at all to you!

Would there be any buses from Berwick to Galashiels which may be more useful?