Appalling: Rules of travel for under 18s - TfL

[Wolfie]

In reality the majority of customers aren’t treated like that - certainly on the intercity trains passengers tend to be greeted with a warm smile and tickets are usually checked once passengers are seated.

However exceptions tend to be made on the basis of a customer’s appearance and it’s understandable why someone might take exception to that. Treating people less favourably based on certain factors of their appearance is discrimination - age being one of them. Either make everybody show their ticket before they’re allowed to enter (like airlines do), or nobody unless there’s a very good reason to.

Having been on one of those ECML trains and being asked four times if I knew I was in First then asked to show a ticket before being allowed to sit down, I get why people don’t like it. I was a first class CSA before that incident and simply didn’t treat any customer like that, it was down to the guard to check tickets. We were specifically trained not to challenge passengers.

Now that is utterly unacceptable and warrants a serious complaint.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Rubbish. There are way too many over-indulged under-disciplined vile little scrotes out there. Time that they get reminded of their responsibilities as well as rights.

There's so much hate and resentment in this sentence. Look at the way you're wording things. There are also some absolutely vile adults.

Now that is utterly unacceptable and warrants a serious complaint.

I completely agree, and had I not had customer hosts insist I'm in the wrong carriage multiple times when I was 15-18, I wouldn't be so irritated by TfL's page.

 

[Bikeman78]

I’m all for that. I’d rather not see them either!

I was the same before I had my own. Nowadays if I encounter a disruptive little screamer, I think thank goodness they're not mine. I only have to put up with the noise for an hour or two. The parents in question are stuck with it full time. Mine are usually plugged in to their tablets or asking lots of random questions which makes other passengers within earshot giggle.

 

[43096]

I'm not offended.

Really? Just to quote the highlights from your original post...

I've never seen such outrageous stereotyping in my life as on this page:

I don't think I can express how genuinely I angry I am

Shocked and appalled, frankly. These aren't the 1800s.

Use of the words "outrageous", "angry", "shocked" and "appalled" rather suggests you very much are taking offence. If not, then it's very much faux outrage about something that you've already said doesn't apply to you.

 

[Wolfie]

There's so much hate and resentment in this sentence. Look at the way you're wording things. There are also some absolutely vile adults.


I completely agree, and had I not had customer hosts insist I'm in the wrong carriage multiple times when I was 15-18, I wouldn't be so irritated by TfL's page.

Re your first para sadly l have had rather too much experience, some of it on crutches, of traveling in London at school chucking out time.

Oh, and l have a five year old daughter of my very own....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Re your first para sadly l have had rather too much experience, some of it on crutches, of traveling in London at school chucking out time.

Oh, and l have a five year old daughter of my very own....

I never disputed or assumed anything of your own personal circumstances, to me that does not change that the fact there are some horrible youths out there does not warrant all under 18s being grouped and therefore required to have their own dedicated set of rules.

Statistically, boys are more likely to be involved in gang violence than girls. That does not mean a dedicated set of rules for boys would be appropriate in the slightest.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Re giving up your seat why should a non-fare payer sit on their ass while a paying adult stands up. Bloody accept it or walk - I'll happily pay less Council Tax. Fed up of entitled brats whinging.

I won't respond with the same distasteful contempt as quoted, but I'll simply say that I never had an Oyster as an under 18 and paid my fares every time, as do most. The page is titled rules for Under 18s.

But just think for a moment what Wolfie has said. Why should I, or any adult who has bought a ticket, have to stand when some under-18 spoilt brat travels free and feels entitled to sit down?

It also annoys me when very young children (travelling free) take up seats when they could be sat on parents' laps. Do I come on to a public forum and complain?

 

[43066]

I was the same before I had my own. Nowadays if I encounter a disruptive little screamer, I think thank goodness they're not mine. I only have to put up with the noise for an hour or two. The parents in question are stuck with it full time. Mine are usually plugged in to their tablets or asking lots of random questions which makes other passengers within earshot giggle.

Yours sound well brought up. Sadly many are not !

It’s the parents’ fault rather than the kids, much as with badly behaved dogs (no I’m not comparing children with animals before someone suggests it, but you know what I mean!)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Do I come on to a public forum and complain?

That is unfair, as you are completely twisting what I have done. I have come onto the forum to ask about TFL dedicating a set of rules that should apply to everyone, to children only, as if to suggest they are far more likely to act out than adults.

much as with badly behaved dogs (no I’m not comparing children with animals before someone suggests it, but you know what I mean!)

 

[py_megapixel]

But just think for a moment what Wolfie has said. Why should I, or any adult who has bought a ticket, have to stand when some under-18 spoilt brat travels free and feels entitled to sit down?

It also annoys me when very young children (travelling free) take up seats when they could be sat on parents' laps. Do I come on to a public forum and complain?

Yes, clearly, as that's exactly what you've done in this very post...

 

[6Gman]

If it's aimed at those travelling free or at significant discount, shouldn't it include rail staff and other pass holders too? ''You misbehave and lose your privileges'' and ''if you are travelling for free or at a big discount on a busy service give up your seat''.

I find it strange that there is any need to put messages up on how to behave or what manners are. I'd not seen a poster on either in Milan but on all public transport I witnessed youngsters offering their seat to older passengers, not only if the train was packed but even if the seat was in a more convenient place like nearer the doors.

It does, or certainly did when I was in railway employment.

 

[Purple Train]

Is the sole reason people are referring to the under-18s concerned as "spoilt brats" their entitlement to free travel within a certain area, or have I missed something?

 

[Sleepy]

Lots of people wander into first class completely oblivious, hence our hosts often check asap to prevent people sitting down and then having to be asked to move. They also ask to check tickets before delivering refreshments. I wonder if this kind of thing is what is being encountered, rather than checks based on appearance as such (which I agree would be inappropriate).

Witnessed 1st Class coaches being " checked and emptied" by guard immediately on departure from London Terminal this morning. This was after 2 announcements stating where it is before departure and 1st class stickers on the windows (inside and out) !?! Are people really that clueless or trying their luck?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Is the sole reason people are referring to the under-18s concerned as "spoilt brats" their entitlement to free travel within a certain area, or have I missed something?

I have nothing against under-18's having free travel provided that they abide by whatever guidelines or conditions are set out for them. It's the ones who believe they are entitled to free-anything in their lives without actually contributing in any way that I call the spoilt brats

But just think for a moment what Wolfie has said. Why should I, or any adult who has bought a ticket, have to stand when some under-18 spoilt brat travels free and feels entitled to sit down?

It also annoys me when very young children (travelling free) take up seats when they could be sat on parents' laps. Do I come on to a public forum and complain?

Yes, clearly, as that's exactly what you've done in this very post...

When have I complained on this forum about young children, travelling free taking up seats when they could be sat on parents' laps!?

 

[Darandio]

It's the ones who believe they are entitled to free-anything in their lives without actually contributing in any way that I call the spoilt brats

And here I was thinking I was reading a thread about kids. Assuming we still are, what exactly are these kids supposed to be contributing?

 

[zwk500]

It's the ones who believe they are entitled to free-anything in their lives without actually contributing in any way that I call the spoilt brats

I've met an awful lot of middle-aged people who have this attitude. It's not unique to teenagers.

 

[Bill57p9]

I find it funny that 'do not commit any crimes' is number 3 in their list of things you must not do.

It actually says that they must not "Commit any crime that affects our services, passengers, staff or property", so obviously committing crimes that don't affect TfL services, passengers, staff or property is ok...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And here I was thinking I was reading a thread about kids. Assuming we still are, what exactly are these kids supposed to be contributing?

Good behaviour, respect for elders and manners at the very least

 

[Purple Train]

I have nothing against under-18's having free travel provided that they abide by whatever guidelines or conditions are set out for them. It's the ones who believe they are entitled to free-anything in their lives without actually contributing in any way that I call the spoilt brats

Could you please enlighten me as to how this links in to your original remark about seating? I'm afraid I've slightly lost the thread of your point amongst all the general clutter of the thread.

 

[nanstallon]

What is a "generational shift" and why doesn't it mean that younger people should give up their seat to older ones? I stopped being an under-18 in 1958 and nowadays I'm grateful if someone does offer me their seat, though if my journey is a short one I may thank them and decline the offer, especially when the person making the offer is a good deal older than 18.

Offering a seat to someone considerably older is polite and civilised.

I agree with the OPs concern that, apart from clarifying a particular sanction (withdrawal of concessionary travel) that only applies to under 18s, the list of expected behaviours published by TfL should apply to everyone, and the way they've sought to make their point is clumsy and not properly thought out.

When I visited Hungary, I was impressed with their far better manners than the British. Although not obviously 'of a certain age', I was constantly being offered a seat by younger people on the Budapest metro. I don't know whether there is any 'code of conduct' - one should not be necessary.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Could you please enlighten me as to how this links in to your original remark about seating? I'm afraid I've slightly lost the thread of your point amongst all the general clutter of the thread.

Do you mean this one?

Geez some people think they're so entitled. I think the OP is overreacting somewhat. Free travel is a perk, not an entitlement. Who do you think is paying for your free travel?

 

[Purple Train]

Do you mean this one?

Yes. Thank you very much!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So getting back to the original point of the OP, why shouldn't Tfl introduce a code of conduct for under-18's? who travel for free.

There is a general code of conduct for everyone else (or by-laws, whatever you want to call it)

 

[Purple Train]

So getting back to the original point of the OP, why shouldn't Tfl introduce a code of conduct for under-18's? who travel for free.

There is a general code of conduct for everyone else (or by-laws, whatever you want to call it)

I would agree with you; however, the way the guidelines are phrased, it appears to include fare-paying under-18s within their remit. Do you think they should?

 

[Mag_seven]

It looks like all that has need to be said has been said on this matter.

thanks all