Attitudes towards safety (including lack of fencing, open doors while moving etc) in other countries.

[Bletchleyite]

Yes and no. Here we would not alight a train from track level across the line even if a possession was in place, unless in an emergency. Certainly not on the busiest main line in the country. Yes the possession is in place but trains move in possessions and even in the UK, incidents like runaways happen and we wouldn't take the risk.

I don't agree. To me it's purely because our trains don't have steps for low platforms so there's no accessible way to do it. American ones do, so they can. The safety aspect is no different from building a temporary platform across the closed line, just less effort. We might add say a set of buffers, but that's hardly the proverbial rocket science.

We do things in a particular way in the UK - every possible risk has to be prevented while passengers are on railway property, but if leaving the station involves getting to the other side of a busy road with no pedestrian crossing that's perfectly fine. (Or if a Network Rail van is parked on the pavement forcing people to wade into a busy road to get to the station, for that matter).

Roads are considered, to be fair, though maybe not as much as they should be. For instance, one reason for not providing a path to the road for Polesworth's closed platform was that the road bridge was not adequately safe for pedestrians. Existing stations can remain as they were (grandfather rights) of course.

 

[AdamWW]

Roads are considered, to be fair, though maybe not as much as they should be. For instance, one reason for not providing a path to the road for Polesworth's closed platform was that the road bridge was not adequately safe for pedestrians. Existing stations can remain as they were (grandfather rights) of course.

Quite - the standards for road safety are very different from rail safety.

I'm sure Network Rail staff have safety on the railways drummed into them - but on the occasion I referred to above they clearly saw nothing wrong with parking their van so as to force pedestrians into a busy road to get into a station.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'm sure Network Rail staff have safety on the railways drummed into them - but on the occasion I referred to above they clearly saw nothing wrong with parking their van so as to force pedestrians into a busy road to get into a station.

Maybe that's because parking on the pavement has become normalised motorist behaviour; Where I live they do it all the time, even in cul-de-sacs where there is no possible obstruction to traffic from parking in the road.

 

[rvdborgt]

On Belgium:

On the hand I believe they've banned "heritage" traction from the main line, so we do things that wouldn't be allowed there...

No that hasn't been banned AFAIK but after some regulatory changes, TSP seem to find it too much hassle to run any heritage trains on a main line so they stopped doing that.

 

[MarcVD]

On Belgium:

No that hasn't been banned AFAIK but after some regulatory changes, TSP seem to find it too much hassle to run any heritage trains on a main line so they stopped doing that.

SSICF - the belgian rail regulator - has de-registered all heritage rolling stock and requires that each owner goes through the full registration process again.
The very same process as the one used to register new, contemporary rolling stock. This for the moment is almost impossible to achieve because it implies
to submit documentation that must be provided by the rolling stock manufacturer. For heritage units, this documentation, if it ever existed, has since long time
been lost and the manufacturer can't provide it because itself does not exist anymore. So all heritage units are kind of locked out for the moment. Even
SNCB's own heritage units are affected. And after that will come the next difficulty, the requirement to have TBL1+ and/or ETCS on board...

 

[duesselmartin]

The Swiss seem to manage heritage runs rather well. In Belgium it sounds like a deliberate kill off for whatever reason. Very sad.

 

[gysev]

The Swiss seem to manage heritage runs rather well. In Belgium it sounds like a deliberate kill off for whatever reason. Very sad.

Indeed. SSICF rased the rolling stock by 'accident' years ago, but has always refused to reinstate them... Another rule they invented is a maximum speed of 80 km/h for heritage trains. Finding paths on busy mainlines becomes almost impossible.

 

[AdamWW]

Edit: This image (Wikimedia Commons) confirms my memory - note the Solari (actually Pragotron) display with a big arrow on it pointing to the subsidiary platform. Intrigued what the little "portal" thing on the subsidiary platform is.

I was going to say that these days I don't think you'd see DB coaches like that at Hlavni Nadrazi.

Then I remembered that Regiojet seems to have quite a few still in that livery.

Indeed. SSICF rased the rolling stock by 'accident' years ago, but has always refused to reinstate them... Another rule they invented is a maximum speed of 80 km/h for heritage trains. Finding paths on busy mainlines becomes almost impossible.

I should perhaps then have put the word "banned" in quotes...

This isn't what I was referring to earlier, but here's a station in Prague this summer where there was some major rebuilding work going on meaning that the lines next to the main platform were out of use. Presumably the "gangway" can be lifted out of the way when they need to get down the line it goes over to work on it.

 

[Frothy_B]

I spent quite a bit of time in Hungary recently and I have to say I really enjoy the attitude to fencing and stations compared to here.

It's purely my opinion, but here in the UK we rely too much on other forces to keep us safe, and as a result we often expect other forces to be held liable when we do something and get injured or worse. In EE, it often seems the attitude is "you've done something stupid and got hurt, that's your problem".

There is a lack of consistency though. At Kobanya-Kispest Station there are fences and locked gates with signage to discourage walking across the tracks between platforms which were "mostly" obeyed, although I did observe a few people try. Meanwhile, at Ferencvaros the station itself is tiny, but there is a route to walk across the whole freight yard that people were using to access the the buildings across the far side as it was the quickest route. I didn't dare walk all the way as there was a nagging voice in my head that it felt wrong to be there.
These are the platforms at Fehergyarmat, little more than different coloured gravel.

This was taken from halfway across the rail yard at Ferencvaros. There was a driver in each cab with station staff on the platforms themselves, and no one batted an eye.

 

[rvdborgt]

SSICF - the belgian rail regulator - has de-registered all heritage rolling stock and requires that each owner goes through the full registration process again.
The very same process as the one used to register new, contemporary rolling stock. This for the moment is almost impossible to achieve because it implies
to submit documentation that must be provided by the rolling stock manufacturer. For heritage units, this documentation, if it ever existed, has since long time
been lost and the manufacturer can't provide it because itself does not exist anymore. So all heritage units are kind of locked out for the moment. Even
SNCB's own heritage units are affected. And after that will come the next difficulty, the requirement to have TBL1+ and/or ETCS on board...

Thanks for the explanation, that's worse than I thought

 

[miklcct]

In Hong Kong, in the era of diesel trains, walking along / across tracks was commonplace. This was ended during modernisation to modern British Rail standards and the railway company put a lot of posters and TV ads, some very scary, to stop people trespassing onto the tracks.

I don't think comparison with roads is a good idea. Trains run so fast that there is little time before you see one and it hits you, and on 3rd rail systems, you will be electrocuted if you fall onto the track, unlike roads where 50 km/h is the norm and cars can brake much faster than trains.

 

[high camera]

In the 60s & 70s I lived in South Manchester next to the Manchester to Crewe line where it crossed over the old midland line. The huge embankments, Adswood sidings and sometimes the lines themselves were our playgrounds, we had respect for the trains and never crossed the line when trains were approaching. I remember being about 10 yrs old playing on rope swings under footbridges adjacent to the lines. In all my years none of my friends were injured or killed by trains, we were truly street wise urchins. Drivers would sound their horns and wave at us in a friendly manner. Imagine that now, the sight of anyone on the line without a high viz would bring the system to a standstill, how the world has changed.

 

[Falcon1200]

Imagine that now, the sight of anyone on the line without a high viz would bring the system to a standstill

Not unless there are particular aggravating circumstances, trains would run at caution until the line was reported clear, thus ensuring both the safety of the trespasser and the continued operation of the train service.

Perhaps what is needed are statistics of the number of people killed on the railway, to provide a comparison between the UK and other countries with a different approach, if indeed these figures are collected and presented in a standard fashion? Regardless, I would not be surprised to find that the UK has a better rail safety record in this respect, as in others, than many if not most other places.

 

[high camera]

Not unless there are particular aggravating circumstances, trains would run at caution until the line was reported clear, thus ensuring both the safety of the trespasser and the continued operation of the train service.

Perhaps what is needed are statistics of the number of people killed on the railway, to provide a comparison between the UK and other countries with a different approach, if indeed these figures are collected and presented in a standard fashion? Regardless, I would not be surprised to find that the UK has a better rail safety record in this respect, as in others, than many if not most other places.

"Standstill" was probably being a bit dramatic, but it wouldn't take long for a caution to play havoc. I have been delayed many times by reports of trespassers, once sat in Milton Keynes for an hour with nothing moving at all.

 

[Ken H]

Not unless there are particular aggravating circumstances, trains would run at caution until the line was reported clear, thus ensuring both the safety of the trespasser and the continued operation of the train service.

Perhaps what is needed are statistics of the number of people killed on the railway, to provide a comparison between the UK and other countries with a different approach, if indeed these figures are collected and presented in a standard fashion? Regardless, I would not be surprised to find that the UK has a better rail safety record in this respect, as in others, than many if not most other places.

My understanding is in India, people run over by trains is not regarded as a rail accident. They are reported separately together with people run over on the roads.
Thousands killed getting run over or falling off trains each year.

 

[Falcon1200]

I have been delayed many times by reports of trespassers, once sat in Milton Keynes for an hour with nothing moving at all.

Of course on a busy railway just running at caution can quickly lead to heavy delay, but on the other hand it is not uncommon for one Driver to report a trespasser and the next, having been cautioned, to report the line clear. Where it gets complicated is if electrification is involved, on third rail lines naturally (which thankfully I never had to deal with!) but also when someone decides to climb an overhead line structure.

 

[route101]

The more South East you go in Europe the more Lax it gets perhaps with the exception of Greece.

 

[ABB125]

This isn't what I was referring to earlier, but here's a station in Prague this summer where there was some major rebuilding work going on meaning that the lines next to the main platform were out of use. Presumably the "gangway" can be lifted out of the way when they need to get down the line it goes over to work on it.

I was there earlier this year! It was the first "not a proper platform" station I've been to. Here are some more shots...


Not as fun as Brno Horni Herspice though...

 

[DanNCL]

I visited the railway museum in Strasshof, Austria, a few weeks ago, and the absence of the health and safety measures we're used to in the UK struck me straight away. The public could go wherever they liked on the museum site which had a steam service running across it - walking across the live railway wasn't just allowed it was encouraged!

 

[AdamWW]

Not as fun as Brno Horni Herspice though...

Now that's a proper station.

 

[rg177]

Brno Horní Herspice was my first introduction to a "proper" Central/Eastern European station back in 2018.

I think I was more apprehensive about getting on the "wrong" train more than anything, considering the lack of signage...

 

[87015]

Theno

Brno Horní Herspice was my first introduction to a "proper" Central/Eastern European station back in 2018.

I think I was more apprehensive about getting on the "wrong" train more than anything, considering the lack of signage...

The only CZ Pendo I’ve had I got on at Horni Herspice (it was being dragged from there to Hlavni, thankfully I’ve not had to suffer one working). Doesn’t even rank on the basic scale compared to rural areas though, certainly doesn’t even enter the “field” category.

 

[rg177]

Theno

The only CZ Pendo I’ve had I got on at Horni Herspice (it was being dragged from there to Hlavni). Doesn’t even rank on the basic scale compared to rural areas though, certainly doesn’t even enter the “field” category.

Yes I've been to far more basic since then.

Some of the minor Hungarian lines (usually just served by a single Bzmot unit) are quite good at merely being a patch of grass with a rather bent over sign.

 

[AdamWW]

And here's a station with interesting access in Spain (La Roda de Albacete)



Curious that the warning signs seem to be designed to be viewed across the tracks like a road crossing.

 

[ABB125]

I think I was more apprehensive about getting on the "wrong" train more than anything, considering the lack of signage...

Likewise. One train arrived, then another almost immediately afterwards. We asked the guard on one, the language barrier didn't help! But we did get the right train.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Certainly in Australia the original intention in fencing most lines was to keep livestock off them, and much of it outside built-up areas remains either plain wire or sheep netting. Preventing trespass came later, and usually takes the form of chain-link fencing between four and seven feet high depending on traffic levels on both sides of the fence. You'd never see palisade fencing for it; to the best of my knowledge that's a uniquely British level of paranoia.

Even the anti trespass panels have been installed.

 

[CarrotPie]

Here on the Helsinki Metro, the doors on the oldest stock (M100, from the late 1970s) usually open 2 seconds or so before the train actually stops, despite their ongoing refurbishment. Also, most railway lines (except the 220km/h high speed line) have no fencing, only the suburban Helsinki ones do (because of the high volumes of traffic).