Avanti West Coast recruiting QUALIFIED DRIVER TALENT POOL ONLY at London Euston, Liverpool, Manchester, and Wolverhampton depots. (Posted 1/2-09-2020)

[8J]

Knowing First groups love of packing drivers diagrams as much as they can, I'd say once crewe comes on stream, Liverpool drivers may end up doing 2 or 3 trips per day to crewe with a crewe or london man doing the crewe to london section of a liverpool to euston run.
Apparently this is more productive, however I'd argue it would be counter productive. I hope attitudes within First change in time that it isnt what happens on avanti as it is slowly happening on GWR

TPE and SWR have a lot of traincrew relieving en route. It may be slightly more efficient on paper, however it falls on its face when there is service disruption!

 

[craigybagel]

If a base opens at Crewe, could that mean Edinburgh/Polmadie drivers would continue from Preston onto crewe? It’s my understanding that, due to only being a 30 odd minute gap between the nearest return Edinburgh service after the London service arrives, drivers can be there for 2.5 hours. I may be wrong!

There's nothing stopping them doing that already even without a traincrew depot at Crewe. Plenty of traincrew changes already take place there. Presumably it's more efficient, despite the long breaks on some of the jobs as a result, for Scottish crews to only go as far as Preston.

Knowing First groups love of packing drivers diagrams as much as they can, I'd say once crewe comes on stream, Liverpool drivers may end up doing 2 or 3 trips per day to crewe with a crewe or london man doing the crewe to london section of a liverpool to euston run.
Apparently this is more productive, however I'd argue it would be counter productive. I hope attitudes within First change in time that it isnt what happens on avanti as it is slowly happening on GWR

One thing I've noticed when compiling the Driver route/knowledge thread, there does seem to be a lot of limited variety depots at First group TOCs. Most of the Thameslink and Great Northern depots are very limited in their variety - with even some of the larger depots being divided into links with 1 route each. Similarly at Transpennine it seems like they're cutting down both on how much routes drivers sign, and dividing traction into different links. I hope this doesn't spread, it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest! Thanks to Covid I only sign one route (albeit a very long one) and I can't wait for route learning to restart so I can spread my wings a bit more.

 

[irish_rail]

There's nothing stopping them doing that already even without a traincrew depot at Crewe. Plenty of traincrew changes already take place there. Presumably it's more efficient, despite the long breaks on some of the jobs as a result, for Scottish crews to only go as far as Preston.



One thing I've noticed when compiling the Driver route/knowledge thread, there does seem to be a lot of limited variety depots at First group TOCs. Most of the Thameslink and Great Northern depots are very limited in their variety - with even some of the larger depots being divided into links with 1 route each. Similarly at Transpennine it seems like they're cutting down both on how much routes drivers sign, and dividing traction into different links. I hope this doesn't spread, it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest! Thanks to Covid I only sign one route (albeit a very long one) and I can't wait for route learning to restart so I can spread my wings a bit more.

Exactly. Short term thinking in the extreme. The thinking being that new drivers are fully productive much quicker. However said new driver now far less useful and flexible.
Also multiple driver changes on route leads to a fair chance of a part of the chain breaking down and increases chances of delays for passengers.

 

[mph9937]

I would say that an Avanti depot opening up at Holyhead would attract a large amount of interest. Like a previous thread mentioned it would be mostly from TFW drivers though. Saying that I think there might even be one or two drivers currently working at Avanti as drivers who work in Liverpool but actually live in Holyhead which would be ideal for them.

You could potentially get drivers from all North Wales depots (Holyhead, Llandudno Junction, Pwllheli) as well as Chester wanting to relocated to Holyhead. That’s in excess of 100 or so drivers.

If we’re talking about an hour commute to Holyhead which seems to be the norm that could take you possibly as far as Rhyl/StAsaph in the Eastern direction from Holyhead that drivers could travel from.

On another note does anyone have any ideas about what kind of numbers they would be looking at. Those of you in the know in regards to diagrams may have an idea how many drivers would be required 6, 12, 18, 24 etc...

Someone else also mentioned on the thread that Holyhead could go as far south as Crewe. What does this mean, does it mean that Holyhead would only drive as far as Crewe and Manchester (anywhere else?) meaning that Holyhead drivers would never experience driving at 125mph!

On the flip side there is talk of TFW introducing Sunday in the working week and salaries then going up to the low sixties and with other factors (overtime) thrown in a change to Avanti might not be all that it’s cracked up to be!!


Anyway good luck to you all trying these new opportunities, they don’t come around often!

 

[craigybagel]

I would say that an Avanti depot opening up at Holyhead would attract a large amount of interest. Like a previous thread mentioned it would be mostly from TFW drivers though. Saying that I think there might even be one or two drivers currently working at Avanti as drivers who work in Liverpool but actually live in Holyhead which would be ideal for them.

You could potentially get drivers from all North Wales depots (Holyhead, Llandudno Junction, Pwllheli) as well as Chester wanting to relocated to Holyhead. That’s in excess of 100 or so drivers.

If we’re talking about an hour commute to Holyhead which seems to be the norm that could take you possibly as far as Rhyl/StAsaph in the Eastern direction from Holyhead that drivers could travel from.

On another note does anyone have any ideas about what kind of numbers they would be looking at. Those of you in the know in regards to diagrams may have an idea how many drivers would be required 6, 12, 18, 24 etc...

Someone else also mentioned on the thread that Holyhead could go as far south as Crewe. What does this mean, does it mean that Holyhead would only drive as far as Crewe and Manchester (anywhere else?) meaning that Holyhead drivers would never experience driving at 125mph!

On the flip side there is talk of TFW introducing Sunday in the working week and salaries then going up to the low sixties and with other factors (overtime) thrown in a change to Avanti might not be all that it’s cracked up to be!!


Anyway good luck to you all trying these new opportunities, they don’t come around often!

If anyone at TfW was desperate to move to Holyhead, they could have transferred internally - there have been several vacancies there over the last few years. The fact they've taken on a few trainees for there recently instead suggests nobody wants to move.

 

[irish_rail]

I'd say as city living quickly falls out of fashion there will be plenty of drivers in places like london and Birmingham who would welcome moving out to anglesey as they begin to wind down. And 67k is likely to tempt them as money goes alot further up there than it does in london.

 

[delticdobs]

TPE drivers have moved on to Avanti but similarly I know Avanti drivers who have moved to West Mids Trains.

There's a fine balance between having a high basic salary and good terms & conditions.

that is correct...terms and conditions on west coast fantastic.. every fifth week off..sundays outside working week.. shift rate outside salary too. no double tripping

 

[8J]

Conditions don't just reflect what is on paper... You have to consider that there's a few night turns at Avanti's depot at Liverpool that come around quite frequently.

Plus a week off every 5 may sound good on the surface, however when you're at work, you are in work most days.

It is down to an individual's preference. I think it's only fair to make people aware before they leave a toc with a fixed RD pattern and no/infrequent nights.

 

[Crazyb]

Conditions don't just reflect what is on paper... You have to consider that there's a few night turns at Avanti's depot at Liverpool that come around quite frequently.

Plus a week off every 5 may sound good on the surface, however when you're at work, you are in work most days.

It is down to an individual's preference. I think it's only fair to make people aware before they leave a toc with a fixed RD pattern and no/infrequent nights.

Your 100% on that 8J. I got a job at Euston around 3 1/2 years ago. Though the money was great and I signed most of the route from London to Crewe, I turned it down.

Looking at the roster and work content, i would spend most time at work, and i had to factor in 45 mins travelling into that. It may of changed now but at that time it wasn't for me, plus Preston is a long way. I think Euston drivers link 5 work the first one out to Preston around 5am ish, but you do get a taxi in. I'm not sure if that's changed though.

I would rather have a better work life balance than spend all my time at work. Some TOC's are not far behind in pay if that's what drivers are after, but like you say, it's a individual's preference.

 

[Jericho]

From what I understand the bottom links at Euston are not great. I think there are some parts of the roster where you maybe do 10 or 11 days in a row. Even if you do get a week off after every five I wouldn't fancy it. Where I am I do a maximum of five on and then a minimum of three off. Much better work life balance.

 

[hello]

From what I understand the bottom links at Euston are not great. I think there are some parts of the roster where you maybe do 10 or 11 days in a row. Even if you do get a week off after every five I wouldn't fancy it. Where I am I do a maximum of five on and then a minimum of three off. Much better work life balance.

Guaranteed atleast 1 week off in the summer mind

 

[tiptoptaff]

Different RD patterns suit different people. Having rest weeks is good if you like being assured of things like weeks off in the summer, but not if you like your regualr days off in the week, or having a fixed RD pattern so you can plan things a year or two in advance, rather than just link change to link change. I quite like knowing what my days off will be in 3/6/9 months time, you can plan things. Some people like the rest weeks for going on holiday regularly without burning leave. Wife and I want a caravan in the future, and so with what will be school-age kids, having regular long weekends to go away suits better than mid-weeks off.

Horses for courses as with everything, but headline salary and leftover Virgin PR aren't everything. Some of the high salary was Virgin's "faux prestige" and being the best we have to pay more becuase we are the best....and I can assure you, having worked under FG for a few years, they're very very unlikely to follow that mantra!

 

[Scottychoo]

From what I understand the bottom links at Euston are not great. I think there are some parts of the roster where you maybe do 10 or 11 days in a row. Even if you do get a week off after every five I wouldn't fancy it. Where I am I do a maximum of five on and then a minimum of three off. Much better work life balance.

Train drivers working 10 or 11 days in a row? Safety critical job. What sort of union allows that in this day and age?, oh yes of course its those dinosaurs at ASLEF

 

[the sniper]

Train drivers working 10 or 11 days in a row? Safety critical job. What sort of union allows that in this day and age?, oh yes of course its those dinosaurs at ASLEF

Are the majority of members there against that roster?

 

[irish_rail]

Train drivers working 10 or 11 days in a row? Safety critical job. What sort of union allows that in this day and age?, oh yes of course its those dinosaurs at ASLEF

I'm pretty sure that would include a voluntary Sunday, so only 11 days in a row if the driver chooses to work his sunday.

 

[Economist]

I've heard of a few people move from suburban DOO work to long distance guarded expresses (albeit, not Avanti) and they've said that they feel considerably less fatigued. Is 10 successive days working for Avanti going to be more tiring than five 90 stop DOO diagrams in a row?

 

[43066]

Your 100% on that 8J. I got a job at Euston around 3 1/2 years ago. Though the money was great and I signed most of the route from London to Crewe, I turned it down.

Looking at the roster and work content, i would spend most time at work, and i had to factor in 45 mins travelling into that. It may of changed now but at that time it wasn't for me, plus Preston is a long way. I think Euston drivers link 5 work the first one out to Preston around 5am ish, but you do get a taxi in. I'm not sure if that's changed though.

I would rather have a better work life balance than spend all my time at work. Some TOC's are not far behind in pay if that's what drivers are after, but like you say, it's a individual's preference.

I must admit Avanti’s “every fifth week off” arrangement would make me think twice. That means they’re effectively doing a five day week the rest of the time, and ten or eleven days on the bounce is really pushing it.

Where I am now we have a five day weekend (Friday - Tuesday) every three weeks (up to six days on at other points), which I find suits me pretty well.

I've heard of a few people move from suburban DOO work to long distance guarded expresses (albeit, not Avanti) and they've said that they feel considerably less fatigued. Is 10 successive days working for Avanti going to be more tiring than five 90 stop DOO diagrams in a row?

Ten successive days of intercity work would be a lot more palletable than ten days of all shacks, but that many days on the trot would be very anti social. As we all know the anti social nature of railway shifts is one of the challenges of working in the industry.

 

[tiptoptaff]

.As we all know the anti social nature of railway shifts is one of the challenges of working in the industry.

But we have gone some way to reducing that, by way of long weekends and fixed RD patterns. Seems the 5day week is brutal, regardless of work content

 

[43066]

But we have gone some way to reducing that, by way of long weekends and fixed RD patterns. Seems the 5day week is brutal, regardless of work content

Yep. 11 days on the bounce is shocking.

 

[Evolution]

In addition to all of the above, movement from spare is 12 hours. And some PNB‘s are taken whilst on the train travelling pass! No thanks, it wouldn’t be cup of tea.

LNER at KX isn’t much better either with nights every 4-5 weeks. There’s a reason why the basic is higher, some don’t seem to grasp this and still wax lyrical about these TOC’s without understanding all the facts.

One of the best rosters I’ve seen was actually from Northern at one of the Manchester depots. The rest day pattern was brilliant; 4-6 days on and between 3-6 off with only 1 night shift every 40 weeks.

 

[hello]

In addition to all of the above, movement from spare is 12 hours. And some PNB‘s are taken whilst on the train travelling pass! No thanks, it wouldn’t be cup of tea.

LNER at KX isn’t much better either with nights every 3-4 weeks. There’s a reason why the basic is higher, some don’t seem to grasp this and still wax lyrical about these TOC’s without understanding all the facts.

Oh and here’s a KX roster from LNER to compare, not much better mind.

View attachment 83509

Don’t they have sundays in the working week?

 

[Evolution]

Don’t they have sundays in the working week?

Yes at LNER Sunday’s are inside.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Yes at LNER Sunday’s are inside.

So a horrendous roster and nothing else left to sell....ouch

 

[Evolution]

So a horrendous roster and nothing else left to sell....ouch

They will be selling off annual leave days next for an higher basic salary

 

[tiptoptaff]

They will be selling off annual leave days next for an higher basic salary

Don't give them ideas!

 

[lammergeier]

People are making the mistake of assuming the 5 day Virgin roster isn't fixed. A few depots at XC have a 5 day link (week of rest days every fifth week roster) based on the ex-Virgin link. It is fixed, just the same as a 4 day or hybrid. It's not my cup of tea, but the drivers who are in it seem to like it. But it is fixed - you know what you're going to be doing in perpetuity. I assume the Avanti roster is the same.

 

[Jericho]

I don't think the LNER KX roster is dreadful by any means. Yes there are more nights than perhaps elsewhere but the the maximum number of days you will ever work in a row is seven (it is mostly six) with a minimum of three rest days off. Yes Sundays are in but overall it doesn't seem too bad for £74k.

 

[387star]

I've heard of a few people move from suburban DOO work to long distance guarded expresses (albeit, not Avanti) and they've said that they feel considerably less fatigued. Is 10 successive days working for Avanti going to be more tiring than five 90 stop DOO diagrams in a row?

I've moved from the hell of the Sutton loop to the green fields of the Avon Valley and Bath. Fewer stops more greens and I'm some stock no interaction with doors at all. I'd say the fewer stops and more greens along with a simpler route certainly make one less fatigued perhaps more than closing doors although I didn't mind doing that.

 

[mph9937]

Rules test, group interview and then a face to face

Good morning, Has any driver moved from TOC to TOC and had experience of the rules test that has been mentioned.

Would it be that you sit down face to face with a manager and go from front to back of the rule book answering questions along they way.

Would it be a computer based multiple choice question rules test.

Any ideas on what topics or questions that they could ask and what their favourite questions would be.

How many questions are we talking about 50, 100, 150

I take it questions like ‘name all 16 signals you can pass at danger’ etc.. though I doubt anyone in my depot could name all 16.

Is this the standard that Avanti would expect not only to know them but to recite them word perfect!

Thanks

 

[Economist]

I've moved from the hell of the Sutton loop to the green fields of the Avon Valley and Bath. Fewer stops more greens and I'm some stock no interaction with doors at all. I'd say the fewer stops and more greens along with a simpler route certainly make one less fatigued perhaps more than closing doors although I didn't mind doing that.

Sounds much more fun than suburban DOO, cheaper cost of living than the capital and in a nice area by the sounds of it too.

I take it questions like ‘name all 16 signals you can pass at danger’ etc.. though I doubt anyone in my depot could name all 16.

I didn't realise that there was 16, at my place we're told we can pass on our own authority an IBH that's not protecting a tunnel and anything on Absolute Block so long as we're sure that the signal box is clsoed and the points are set. If it's on TCB infrastructure, we have to remain at a stand, even with no comms.

Of course, there's certain scenarios where we can pass Stop Boards, TCB stop signals and most other things with the permission of the signaller.