Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[ScottGallagher]

Does anyone know the onboard upgrade cost Lancaster to London, would you just board a SP carriage and wait for the TM to come through? Is it so discountable with a senior railcard?

 

[Journeyman]

Does anyone know the onboard upgrade cost Lancaster to London, would you just board a SP carriage and wait for the TM to come through? Is it so discountable with a senior railcard?

Weekend First upgrades have always been classed as supplements and so had no railcard discounts. I suspect this will be the same.

 

[STINT47]

Does anyone know the onboard upgrade cost Lancaster to London, would you just board a SP carriage and wait for the TM to come through? Is it so discountable with a senior railcard?

Assuming I've interpreted it correctly the standard premium on the day upgrade is £25. No discount is available for a senior railcard.

This is taken from BR fares. Perhaps Standard premium isn't being used as the prices are not very clear? I would personally be reluctant to sit down if I dont know the price and I doubt many people use BE fares expert mode to look it up.

 

[Elecman]

£25 and no there’s no discount

 

[ScottDarg]

I used this Yesterday from Euston to Glasgow and I was fairly content with it. In my view the £30 wasn't too much to pay for an upgrade from a standard airline seat with no window to a larger table seat + plug + window - definitely made that length of journey a lot more comfortable.

The Standard Premium coach remained quiet throughout the journey - I could have probably counted the number of other passengers on 1 hand. I don't recall an announcement about it when we left Euston and it certainly wasn't mentioned in annoucements at intermediate stops, so it's not surprising that so few people took up the offer.

For me the only real driver to use it was the almost guaranteed plug socket and I'd probably use it again if I ended up in a Standard airline seat in future, but if I had a table seat in Standard I wouldn't bother. While the larger seat was nice I'm OK with the seats used in Standard so that isn't a big thing for me.

 

[AlterEgo]

Worth remembering that first might be full now but many may choose to go for standard premium over first due to the price difference I'm expecting first to completely disappear in favour of standard premium with charging extra for refreshments in the future.

First class won’t ever disappear as a designation without the reform of ORCATS.

 

[Butts]

The reality at the moment is that the train is still half empty and the government prefer it that way. The first class offering has gone from nothing to something pretty basic, and they've restickered some stock. You can't draw any conclusions from the current state of affairs

Longer term they've made it clear that they intend to relaunch first class as a radically different product. In the meantime they're doing the important job of cleaning out the down-market cheapskates who were only on there for their fill of cheap booze.

Complaining now is like sacking a decorator when they've only got as far as stripping the old wallpaper

As far as I was aware only I fit into that category .

Were there others ?

 

[takno]

As far as I was aware only I fit into that category .

Were there others ?

Oh, I'd be in that category as well, I just can't be doing with nonsense like Seatfrog

 

[Energy]

First class won’t ever disappear as a designation without the reform of ORCATS.

Could it be designated first but only advertised as Standard Premium? Given the shake up under Great British Rail in the future I wouldn't be suprised if we see it changed to allow standard premium.

 

[Journeyman]

I just can't be doing with nonsense like Seatfrog

Seatfrog is seriously annoying. I've had success with LNER once or twice, but essentially you have to guess the perceived value of the upgrade, and more often than not it doesn't work. Just name a price! Don't turn it into a game! I suppose it fitted in with VTEC's "look at how zany and wacky we are!!!!1!!!!1!!" image.

This is why I was glad to see the back of Virgin Trains.

 

[Voyager lad]

Seatfrog is seriously annoying. I've had success with LNER once or twice, but essentially you have to guess the perceived value of the upgrade, and more often than not it doesn't work. Just name a price! Don't turn it into a game! I suppose it fitted in with VTEC's "look at how zany and wacky we are!!!!1!!!!1!!" image.

This is why I was glad to see the back of Virgin Trains.

I can understand why some people find Seatfrog annoying, but I like the excitement of an auction. I’ve managed to win a fair few auctions and it’s all about tactical bidding, which most people seem to use. It’s a great way to get a little bit of extra money for TOCs, and some added fun for the passengers. If you don’t like it, don’t use it.

 

[takno]

I can understand why some people find Seatfrog annoying, but I like the excitement of an auction. I’ve managed to win a fair few auctions and it’s all about tactical bidding, which most people seem to use. It’s a great way to get a little bit of extra money for TOCs, and some added fun for the passengers. If you don’t like it, don’t use it.

Turning the whole thing into a massive faff with a pointless app and adding gambling isn't a good thing. I don't use Seatfrog, but as a result I don't get to have first class upgrades. I'm not at all convinced that the TOCs are getting extra revenue by making the upgrade process unpleasant and difficult to use.

 

[Butts]

Turning the whole thing into a massive faff with a pointless app and adding gambling isn't a good thing. I don't use Seatfrog, but as a result I don't get to have first class upgrades. I'm not at all convinced that the TOCs are getting extra revenue by making the upgrade process unpleasant and difficult to use.

Can the upgrades be had resulting in a lower Fare than the cheapest band of Advanced 1st Class Tickets ?

 

[S-Car-Go]

For me the only real driver to use it was the almost guaranteed plug socket

I thought you were going to say the only real driver to use it was when you saw me in uniform travelling for duty The train manager told me to go sit in coach G to pass on a service.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Just discovered a scenario where it doesn’t work

I have a First class ticket but my friend doesn’t, he can no longer upgrade and sit with me.

He is but I believe my friend just paid a whack to do it as a standard upgrade.

 

[Journeyman]

I can understand why some people find Seatfrog annoying, but I like the excitement of an auction. I’ve managed to win a fair few auctions and it’s all about tactical bidding, which most people seem to use. It’s a great way to get a little bit of extra money for TOCs, and some added fun for the passengers. If you don’t like it, don’t use it.

I don't want "excitement", I just want to be able to upgrade easily. There's no transparency to Seatfrog at all - you don't know how many upgrades are available, or what other people are bidding. That's not "fun", it's potentially a rip-off and just creates extra stress.

Turning the whole thing into a massive faff with a pointless app and adding gambling isn't a good thing. I don't use Seatfrog, but as a result I don't get to have first class upgrades. I'm not at all convinced that the TOCs are getting extra revenue by making the upgrade process unpleasant and difficult to use.

It was a very typical Virgin-era "yaaaaay! Look how much fun we're having!" gimmick. This sort of thing just makes me wince.

 

[Furrball]

Turning the whole thing into a massive faff with a pointless app and adding gambling isn't a good thing. I don't use Seatfrog, but as a result I don't get to have first class upgrades. I'm not at all convinced that the TOCs are getting extra revenue by making the upgrade process unpleasant and difficult to use.

For a lot of seat frog upgrades if you do it as soon as they open and bid high enough you will get an automatic upgrade

For example, pre covid a £24 bid for Glasgow to Euston resulted in an immediate upgrade 90% of the time. I think it was £19 between Manchester and Euston

 

[Butts]

For a lot of seat frog upgrades if you do it as soon as they open and bid high enough you will get an automatic upgrade

For example, pre covid a £24 bid for Glasgow to Euston resulted in an immediate upgrade 90% of the time. I think it was £19 between Manchester and Euston

Is there a minimum bid and reserve price ?

If you bid a quid and no one else joins in would you get it ?

 

[Furrball]

Is there a minimum bid and reserve price ?

If you bid a quid and no one else joins in would you get it ?

There is a reserve price which varies dependant on journey

 

[Journeyman]

There is a reserve price which varies dependant on journey

...and they never tell you what it is.

 

[Butts]

There is a reserve price which varies dependant on journey

From your knowledge of the system is it variable on the same route and what is it normally between Glasgow and London ?

 

[Furrball]

...and they never tell you what it is.

The starting price is on every journey. If you bid that and there are no other bids you will get the upgrade (there are I rare nstances where the auction can be closed early and any bids nullified)

From your knowledge of the system is it variable on the same route and what is it normally between Glasgow and London ?

Yes, it varies on the same route

With the introduction of standard premium the issue now is quite often their is no Seatfrog upgrade available. Saying that I got EUS GLC for 21 quid last Thursday

(as aside was allocated a seat in coach k... Where the ride was appalling! Felt like we were going to come off the rails a couple of times! Moved to a vacant seat in J at Preston)

 

[Butts]

The starting price is on every journey. If you bid that and there are no other bids you will get the upgrade (there are I rare nstances where the auction can be closed early and any bids nullified)


Yes, it varies on the same route

With the introduction of standard premium the issue now is quite often their is no Seatfrog upgrade available. Saying that I got EUS GLC for 21 quid last Thursday

(as aside was allocated a seat in coach k... Where the ride was appalling! Felt like we were going to come off the rails a couple of times! Moved to a vacant seat in J at Preston)

What is the timeframe for the process - ie opening and closing times for bids ?

Bet you wish you were on an HST

 

[Voyager lad]

Can the upgrades be had resulting in a lower Fare than the cheapest band of Advanced 1st Class Tickets ?

Absolutely! A recent example is where I’d gotten a standard advance from Aberdeen - Darlington for around £12 (with split ticketing) and then a seatfrog for £15. £27 all in was way cheaper than the cheapest first class advance for that service (around £45!!). However at times it can end up costing more - for example on an Avanti journey from Preston - Glasgow my ticket cost £11 and seatfrog £15, whereas the cheapest advance at booking was £25 for first. It’s a case of swings and roundabouts really - if you use it often enough, savings quickly add up and counteract times where it costs slightly more

 

[Butts]

Absolutely! A recent example is where I’d gotten a standard advance from Aberdeen - Darlington for around £12 (with split ticketing) and then a seatfrog for £15. £27 all in was way cheaper than the cheapest first class advance for that service (around £45!!). However at times it can end up costing more - for example on an Avanti journey from Preston - Glasgow my ticket cost £11 and seatfrog £15, whereas the cheapest advance at booking was £25 for first. It’s a case of swings and roundabouts really - if you use it often enough, savings quickly add up and counteract times where it costs slightly more

Is it still going to be viable (or even more so) with the reduced 1st Class Availability due to the introduction of Standard Premium ?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Is it still going to be viable (or even more so) with the reduced 1st Class Availability due to the introduction of Standard Premium ?

I doubt it will be available for First Class much longer as it's full, but they might offer it for Standard Premium as that's really struggling to get anyone in it.

 

[Hazlehead]

Speaking to the Train Manager on my journey last night she mentioned that at the moment it's just a soft launch to gauge how it works before large numbers of passengers return. Services are generally very quiet and there's still social distancing so very limited capacity in all coaches. At the moment there are still 'Cheaper' Advance First tickets hence why some services are busier in 1st but think she said sometime in September is the bigger launch. Apparently it wasn't well briefed to staff or negotiatied beforehand.
The plan for First Class from September will be far better food & service style, upgrades also coming to station first class lounges as well with acces for only First Class ticket holders. But as expected this will come at a price, the lower tiers of Advance 1st under approx £80-100 will become Advance Premium she said and no 'cheap' upgrades to First Class it'll be the full upgrade cost. Seatfrog is being looked at but won't be the bargain fares we've all enjoyed, either it'll be significantly higher in cost, become a Std Premium product only or be scrapped altogether.
Basically it seems First Class will become a more exclusive product rather than from what it became by trying to be everything to everyone & let's be honest the ones paying the high fares ( which I wouldn't dream of) weren't really getting anything special but the ones on the really cheap tickets were and as some have put on here basically "Let's see if I can eat & drink my ticket price".
Std Premium will be aimed at those who want a better seat, table, plug sockets at a reasonable price but no frills.
As she said, if you want a better room in a hotel or a better seat at the theatre , of a concert etc with all the trimmings then people expect to pay way more for that, so why should the railways be expected to be any different.
Personally I'll use Premium for a better seat, space & most probably at weekends.
I'm sure once things begin to return to normal whenever that may be and it's launched fully then we can see how well it all works

 

[JaJaWa]

Just discovered a scenario where it doesn’t work

I have a First class ticket but my friend doesn’t, he can no longer upgrade and sit with me...

I presume First Class ticket holders can sit in Standard Premium?

 

[VauxhallandI]

I presume First Class ticket holders can sit in Standard Premium?

Not sure but that then mean the FC traveller doesn’t receive their benefits.

 

[williamn]

Seems like a bit of a mess of a roll out, but overall it makes sense. I'm regularly travelling London-Glasgow and could usually get a Seatfrog upgrade for £25-£30, so the same price for Standard Premium doesn't seem that appealing to me, but appreciate I am being a cheapskate and Avanti want to get some revenue in!

As I have the option of LNER from Edinburgh, once normal First Class service resumes that could make that more appealing to me than Avanti even if it takes a bit longer.