Begging getting worse on trains?

[endicomark69@g]

There's a couple of regulars who do Clapham Junction to Peckham Rye/Surrey Quays rounders after 9.30 - always the same script about needing to get into a shelter - and they tag-team when it looks like somebody is actually going to give them something. And with the trains being a lot busier now it seems they always get a couple of bites per trip.

Reported them umpteen times but beyond a txt acknowledgement never had any follow up.

Their commitment to their performance is impressive when you catch a whiff of just how Walking Dead they smell in weather like this.

As I've seen them hanging around Vauxhall Cross buying supplies in the Tesco Express several times and buying their cans with 10/20/50ps from deep pockets I'm taking a guess there may be a few holes in their "need to get a bed for the night" stories..........

 

[berwicksfinest]

And also a word of caution, one of our Drivers at our Depot was accosted by a lady at a London terminus asking for charge, she was homeless, etc. He refused to give her any money, but offered her something to eat, she prompt went to the counter and ordered the most expensive item. and left him with a £10.50 bill.
Personally I have been asked for change in a Midlands centre, to which I replied when I can afford trainers like yours, I'll have change to spare. He had a brilliant white pair of uptodate Nike trainers.

 

[Carbean]

Last week at Didcot there was someone begging with a crudely written sign “I am homeless, hungry etc”. Went to Chipping Norton next day {33 miles away) and guess who was there begging on street with same sign. As stated before they are part of criminal gangs.

 

[BJames]

Last week at Didcot there was someone begging with a crudely written sign “I am homeless, hungry etc”. Went to Chipping Norton next day {33 miles away) and guess who was there begging on street with same sign. As stated before they are part of criminal gangs.

Always known the gang involvement but that is particularly interesting.

Another place particularly bad is right outside Brixton station. I was stopped 4 times in must have been under a minute when I made the mistake of not walking immediately out of the station with purpose.

 

[Egg Centric]

Whether they make a small fortune depends on how long they beg each day. If they are happy to call it a day once they've collected £20-30 then they aren't getting rich, but it still gives enough money to perhaps fund a habit. When needing more money, just go out again.

A neighbour who was outed on Facebook for camping outside Asda wasn't there all day every day, but often enough that he got noticed and eventually someone realised he was living in a flat and receiving various benefits. He wasn't homeless, but effectively begging became his day job.

There is pretty much no one in the UK living on the streets "involuntarily" - those that are are either about to be picked up by some charity or other (or people who make them a proposition of some kind*) or alternatively cannot accept due to e.g. dogs, mental illness that they don't play nicely with others, etc.

That doesn't mean that they don't need money. Even the ones living on the streets will almost certainly be getting benefits.

None of that is to mean that begging is netting a significant amount of money. It simply isn't, I don't believe it. I really recommend if you haven't done it to hanging out with a non-scammy beggar for a bit (they'll be quite happy to tell you that they have accommodation btw) and see their life. It's never nice. Again I'm excluding the eastern european crime gangs. They don't have a nice life either but really they shouldn't be our problem.

*I travel to Africa a fair bit where there is genuine poverty particularly in the cities on a totally different level to over here, including street kids, that really are living on the streets with almost nothing. One thing you basically won't see is female street kids over the age of about 12... draw your own conclusions as to why

 

[Starmill]

A neighbour who was outed on Facebook for camping outside Asda wasn't there all day every day, but often enough that he got noticed and eventually someone realised he was living in a flat and receiving various benefits.

Please tell me that isn't a We Are Hatfield special!

 

[londonbridge]

What are they like at dealing with beggars on international trains? I’m currently on the railjet from St Polten back to Vienna Airport and a woman has been through begging (at least I assume she was begging)…..she came through the carriage placing slips of paper (which I couldn’t read as they were in German) on the tables, then came back through a few minutes later collecting them up with people giving her money.

Meanwhile after seeing no sign of beggars anywhere in the North East, I came back to London on Monday after the Great North Run, I’d barely got out of Kings Cross Station when I was stopped by a guy who looked stoned out of his mind and slurring his words, saying “just want sone food”….funny how he didn’t look happy when I offered him the bag of crisps from my finishers pack…….

 

[ExRes]

I wondered what Angela Merkel was doing these days

 

[Gigabit]

Today:

Beggar on District Line, I could hear him quite literally shouting his sob story down the carriages after we left Fulham Broadway, but he reached my carriage (third from the front) just as we were leaving Parsons Green. The next minute and a half was quite something. A young man (I'd say around 20 years old) said that he had no change, and the beggar moved on down the carriage but then turned around and repeated the same thing, whilst this same gentleman was still in view. He said again that he had no change, and the beggar lost it. Launched into an absolute tirade against this poor young man, screaming that (imagine an obscenity between each of these words) he heard him the first time and that by repeating it he was just making the situation worse for him and everyone around him. The young man then said fair enough but the beggar seemed to think he said f**k off and then said that he would smash his face in and started squaring up to him, screaming obscenities for a good 45 seconds before then storming off down the train.

We then arrived at Putney Bridge where I alighted but as I did so I did ask the gentleman if he was ok, and said politely that as hard as it may seem, in the future the best thing to do is not say you have nothing but simply ignore them. I've never seen a beggar be this verbally aggressive, I truly thought he was seconds away from throwing a punch - I could hear the anger lacing his voice. I understand that he may well have been genuinely homeless and fallen on hard times but this was quite something to witness.


It did. I don't think it's the most common scam so thought it would be worth mentioning on here in case anyone comes across in the future, although reasonably convincing it's not quite enough for most people to be taken in by I don't think.

I use that line all the time, I've reported the chap you mention countless times.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I haven't seen this in Manchester yet, but I am guessing it is only a matter of time. The area where I live currently has a massive problem with beggars because it is seen as a wealthy left wing area where people are more likely to give money. They can become quite aggressive after their 10th can of beer of the day too.

You do get them hanging around Metrolink stations but I haven't actually seen them beg on the tram (yet).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I use that line all the time, I've reported the chap you mention countless times.

One wonders why they bother now most Londoners don't carry cash. I'm yet to see one produce a card machine, and even if they did I wouldn't trust it not to be fraudulent, nor would anyone with any sense at all.

Donating to homelessness charities, ideally smaller local ones so more money goes to the front line, is the best way. Begging would stop if the income stopped.

Indeed you don't often see beggars in the City and around there, and I wonder if that's because pretty much nobody there carries any cash. And while I do still carry some (I'll stop once my local chippy gets a card machine!) I usually use that as a plausibly-deniable white lie, because there's no way for them to know without attempting a mugging, and if they do do that they'll be flying across the concourse before they can even think.

 

[TheSmiths82]

One wonders why they bother now most Londoners don't carry cash. I'm yet to see one produce a card machine, and even if they did I wouldn't trust it not to be fraudulent, nor would anyone with any sense at all.

Donating to homelessness charities, ideally smaller local ones so more money goes to the front line, is the best way. Begging would stop if the income stopped.

It would breach their T&Cs too, even if they did have one I think the merchant would soon suspend the account. It can take a few days for the money to reach their account too.

 

[zero]

I carry lots of cash and coins around and I still respond by saying I don't have any cash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I carry lots of cash and coins around and I still respond by saying I don't have any cash.

It's plausibly deniable in the end - nobody can really argue with "I can't give you any money because I don't have any".

I can see why it might be causing them frustration though, as their income stream will be drying up, meaning they have to pack it in and get a proper job (if not actually homeless) or engage with charities etc (if actually homeless) which may be difficult for them.

 

[Howardh]

There's always one hanging around my local Lidl, conveniently by the trollys where your pound goes (so no excuse that there's no cash). They rarely get asked to move on, and it puts me off shopping there - although to be fair with those prices and convenience, it would take A LOT to stop me (maybe musak over the speakers...)!

Anyone these days get asked by kids "pound to look after your car mister?"?

As for those beggars on trains leaving notes...have they got a valid ticket, and if so that would cost them more than any donations??

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's always one hanging around my local Lidl, conveniently by the trollys where your pound goes (so no excuse that there's no cash).

I use a trolley token on my keyring, so yes, the excuse is still available

I always found it too hard not to spend the pound coin I nominally kept for the purpose.

Anyone these days get asked by kids "pound to look after your car mister?"?

Never, ever had that form of blackmail/extortion and if I did I'd be reporting to the Police and/or moving my car elsewhere.

As for those beggars on trains leaving notes...have they got a valid ticket, and if so that would cost them more than any donations??

In the London area they're often using discarded Travelcards (begging for those at places like Euston Square used to be common). I wonder if the forthcoming withdrawal of this ticket will reduce the numbers?

 

[jon0844]

One wonders why they bother now most Londoners don't carry cash. I'm yet to see one produce a card machine, and even if they did I wouldn't trust it not to be fraudulent, nor would anyone with any sense at all.

But people are giving cash. Even if only 5 or 10% of passengers carry cash, there are enough people to make begging profitable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But people are giving cash. Even if only 5 or 10% of passengers carry cash, there are enough people to make begging profitable.

For now. Cash use is decreasing over a long-term period (with some spikes) and so the number of people willing/able to give is decreasing, particularly among young people in our major cities, and young people in major cities are the major part of the "target market". The reduction in people who carry cash also provides plausible deniability for anyone who wants a reasonable, non-confrontational reason not to give.

 

[Gaelan]

So, it's almost impossible to change. Increase wages, but then the average increases and you still have people earning less than average salary. Intervene on housing costs and it distorts the market with some higher income families benefitting and increasing the median household income after housings costs.

Surely the solution (which, of course, nobody in Westminster will consider) is simply to reduce economic inequality to the point where most/all people are within 40% of the median.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the solution (which, of course, nobody in Westminster will consider) is simply to reduce economic inequality to the point where most/all people are within 40% of the median.

It's not simple, because an awful lot of beggars aren't actually homeless but rather find it profitable and easier than doing a proper job. Plus a lot of homeless people are so estranged from society that they find it hard to reintegrate even if they were to be given a free home and a job - I do know of a case here in Milton Keynes where a homeless person refused to be helped - short of making rough sleeping and begging a criminal offence and arresting him, there's not much that can be done if they won't engage.

 

[trebor79]

Surely the solution (which, of course, nobody in Westminster will consider) is simply to reduce economic inequality to the point where most/all people are within 40% of the median.

To be brutally frank, some people aren't productive enough to earn 40% of the median.

 

[Thirteen]

It's not simple, because an awful lot of beggars aren't actually homeless but rather find it profitable and easier than doing a proper job. Plus a lot of homeless people are so estranged from society that they find it hard to reintegrate even if they were to be given a free home and a job - I do know of a case here in Milton Keynes where a homeless person refused to be helped - short of making rough sleeping and begging a criminal offence and arresting him, there's not much that can be done if they won't engage.

I honestly don't think you could eliminate begging from society especially considering some of them are part of criminal gangs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I honestly don't think you could eliminate begging from society especially considering some of them are part of criminal gangs.

Without starting another debate about the merits or otherwise of it, eliminating cash would more or less eliminate begging. This is genuinely why I think you see very little of it in the City now - few people carry cash there. There's much more of it in the tourist areas, as tourists are more likely to have cash.

Some genuinely homeless people might still beg for food or a cup of tea, but it'd get rid of the for-profit, non-homeless begging.

Sure, they could get card machines, but as others have said these wouldn't likely last long as it'd be a breach of the merchant agreements. And few will BACS money to a randomer.

 

[BluePenguin]

What are they like at dealing with beggars on international trains? I’m currently on the railjet from St Polten back to Vienna Airport and a woman has been through begging (at least I assume she was begging)…..she came through the carriage placing slips of paper (which I couldn’t read as they were in German) on the tables, then came back through a few minutes later collecting them up with people giving her money.

Meanwhile after seeing no sign of beggars anywhere in the North East, I came back to London on Monday after the Great North Run, I’d barely got out of Kings Cross Station when I was stopped by a guy who looked stoned out of his mind and slurring his words, saying “just want sone food”….funny how he didn’t look happy when I offered him the bag of crisps from my finishers pack…….

You might have been on the same train as me. I travelled back from Newcastle on Monday and was approached by several beggars all wanting money just out side St Pancras. I offered one of them an un-opened tuna sandwich and was told they don't like tuna. Beggars can't be choosers as they say

 

[Egg Centric]

Meanwhile after seeing no sign of beggars anywhere in the North East,

I assure you we have some, although it is nothing compared to darn sarf for various reasons.

 

[londonbridge]

@BluePenguin possibly, I was on the 11.30 from Crntral station:

 

[AlastairFraser]

I haven't seen this in Manchester yet, but I am guessing it is only a matter of time. The area where I live currently has a massive problem with beggars because it is seen as a wealthy left wing area where people are more likely to give money. They can become quite aggressive after their 10th can of beer of the day too.

You do get them hanging around Metrolink stations but I haven't actually seen them beg on the tram (yet).

It depends where you are in Manchester, defo have seen them on the Oldham and Rochdale Line tram

 

[Krokodil]

One wonders why they bother now most Londoners don't carry cash.

Londoners won't be their target, the very act of engaging a Londoner in conversation on public transport is enough to put you off. If tuts could kill!

Tourists however often carry cash and are much more gullible.

they have to pack it in and get a proper job

To do that they'll have to prove Immigration status. If they're Albanian that could be tricky.

 

[Mojo]

In the London area they're often using discarded Travelcards (begging for those at places like Euston Square used to be common). I wonder if the forthcoming withdrawal of this ticket will reduce the numbers?

That isn’t my experience at all. When removing beggars from trains they never have a ticket, to access the system they just follow someone else through or push through one of the wide aisle gates.

 

[Gigabit]

That isn’t my experience at all. When removing beggars from trains they never have a ticket, to access the system they just follow someone else through or push through one of the wide aisle gates.

Or just enter a station when it it unmanned. Happens frequently at East Putney