BR Shift working questions

[Andy873]

Many of you have told me you once worked for BR, this would for many have meant working shifts.

So what shifts would have have typically worked over say in a month?
If you worked nights for example, would you work a full week of them?
Were the shifts rotated through the week?
Overtime - was that expected or did you apply for it?
Short resting - could someone please explain what that was and how it worked?
Did you get a couple of days off together or were they split?
And what about the clerical staff. did they clock off Saturday lunchtime?
On a basic week (excluding overtime) how many days did you work together?

One person I knew many years ago (who was a guard) was seriously unimpressed that he had to work on a late passenger train, once at its destination he had to wait until 2am for a lift back on a freight train. His gripe was he was on an early that morning.

I'm curious about the shift patterns, how they were planned, implemented, and frankly how you coped with them?

Thanks.

 

[Gloster]

An enormous question, but it must be made clear that the railway was a twenty-four hours, seven day week operation.

Shifts were appropriate for the service, although for many years they were worked round an eight-hour day: weekly hours fell from 48 to 44 to 40. Shifts could be eight hours, or ten (four ten hour shifts in a week made a forty-hour week), or six by six hours forty, or varying hours. Some places or jobs worked one shift, some two, some three, some varying. There was a tendency to try and have a week of nights together, but you might get your Rest Day in the middle. Shifts could rotate during the week, but preference was to do a whole week on one shift, but Rest Day Relief Staff might have to do two or three different shifts in a week.

Overtime was mostly voluntarily and was offered out to specific staff, decided by whoever was doing a particular shift, according to rules agreed with the union. It was not a free for all, but you were not obliged to take it. The exception might be, for example, cases where a signalbox regularly needed to be open for an hour longer than the length of two shifts: the late turn man would automatically stay on.

Rest intervals. You were supposed to have a minimum of eight hours between shifts and in my days this was pretty strictly applied. We did work 18.00 Sunday to 06.00 Monday, then back for 14.00-22.00.

Rest days were arranged to get the maximum amount of work out of the Relief staff, so generally you got one day a week, but often not the same day every, although there were many Monday to Friday fixed weeks. Rosters were agreed between management and unions, and then done on a weekly or daily basis by the roster clerk. They were arranged to give everybody an equal amount of the good options (long weekend) and bad ones (a lot). One roster I saw ran over seven years, but it was fair to all. The 4x10 hour shifts had two days off a week, but they were longer daily hours as their basis, while the six hour fortys didn’t get a day off. Sunday was outside of the normal week.

Most non-passenger facing clerical staff worked the normal office hours of the era, but there were many jobs that worked longer ones. So early, late, Saturdays and Sundays were common and even some night jobs.

How did we cope: we just did.

 

[Andy R. A.]

When I started back at the start of the 1970s the staffing was split between two groups. Saleried grade, which had a 38 hour week, and were mostly clerical, Office and Supervisory posts. All other staff came under Concilliation/Wages Grade, who worked a 40 hour week. With the majority of the shifts at that time based around an 8 hour day shift the one Rest Day a week on the 40 hour system worked okay. Although a lot of the Clerical/Office jobs could work around a 7hr 36 minute day other jobs requiring 24 hour coverage meant that you would work 8 hour shifts, and as a result would be 'plus 2 hours' by the end of the week. So rosters would be made with an additional Rest Day every four weeks. It was always tried to group the extra Rest Day with another. At one time I had a Roster where you got a Long Weekend with Rest Days on the Friday and Saturday, Sunday Off, and then a Rest Day(s) Monday, and sometimes Tuesday.

One particular job I did had a five week cycle. Nights, no Rest Day, then Late and Early shift and a Rest Day Relief shift covering Lates and Early turns. The fifth week we had a Spare/General Purpose Relief week which had no allocated Rest Day as you covered any of the other shifts where the night turn didn't have any Rest Days. As the balance of Rest Days wasn't possible over the five weeks the actual Roster it actually went over fifteen weeks with the number of Rest Days varying on the day shifts.
We did 12 hour Sunday turns, Early and nights, to get an extra Sunday turn off duty.

I always hated 'doubling back' on shifts. After the 12 hour Sunday night at the end of seven night shifts, you came back eight hours later for Late shift. It always seemed that when doubling back you had an awful shift when everything went wrong. Normally you got about four hours sleep between those shifts so felt pretty low to start with. Doubling back from Lates to Early shift was equally as tiring. 'Jet Lag' is a modern term, 'Shift Lag' has been around for decades !

Most of the places I worked tended to 'carry a vacancy' for long periods meaning overtime was generally plentiful. Much of the time you couldn't really turn down the extra time, as if you did it meant one of your mates would get his Leave request turned down, and you never knew when you might need a day off with someone else on overtime to cover it.

 

[30907]

I worked at a Telephone Enquiry Bureau in the late 70s. There were two night men who covered something like 2200-0800 between them plus day shifts to make up their hours, supervisors on earlies and lates (and a few middles) and a Chief Clerk who did days (as did the Travel Facilities people in their own room, answering post etc.).

The rest of us were mainly 0800/0900 start or 1424 on lates, with a few 0700 and 1524, plus some middle turns at 1000/1100. The actual roster was over about 30 weeks, with rest days arranged to give the occasional long weekend Fri 1436-Tue 1524. Sundays were rostered overtime for the full 8 hours plus some 3-hour turns.

Then there was overtime - the odd hour extra to cover a gap or when it was predicted to be busy, plus staff from Travel Centres coming in after their shift for a couple of hours.

With the fixed shift lengths of that era, it wasn't a perfect match for demand - 2200-2300 could be very busy, whereas Saturday afternoons in the football season could be dead.

 

[Andy R. A.]

I can remember several stations that were staffed 0650-1050, and 1450 to 1850 Monday to Friday. Rest Day permanently Saturday, and no Sundays. The one person employed worked the two parts of the shift, and was paid a flat 12 hours per day (no Overtime enhanced rates). Although they worked just eight hours a day they were paid 60 hours for 40 hours worked. This was alright if you lived close by and could make use of your four hour gap in the middle of the day.

 

[eldomtom2]

Rest Day permanently Saturday, and no Sundays.

What was the distinction between a Rest Day and a day not worked at all?

 

[6Gman]

Can somebody define "short rest" for me as I've heard it used in different ways in different contexts.

 

[Gloster]

What was the distinction between a Rest Day and a day not worked at all?

A Rest Day was specifically a day in your roster that was not one of the days you needed to work as part of your normal week. The normal working week through the country (railway, industry, civil service, etc.) for many was Monday to Friday, with Saturday and Sunday off. The railway continues to operate on Saturday, so all those railway staff in jobs needed on all six days would get one day off a week, but this would mostly be shifted around so to to give everybody an equal share of the best days: therefore they also worked a total of five days. Railwaymen did the same number of days and shifts as others, but spread over one more day.

Most jobs would have a roster and whichever day you were entitled to have off in a week was marked as the Rest Day: you could be asked to work it, but you were not obliged to, and if you did work it you got a higher rate of pay. Working your Rest Day was in addition to your standard 40 hours. Sundays were outside the standard week.

There were also Spare days for Relief Staff. These would be days when there was no work available for them and no odd jobs that could be found. Practice varied from place to place, but mostly the Roster Clerk would agree for how long they would sit at home waiting for the ‘phone, However, I think that technically if they hadn’t been given a job by three days previously, they weren’t obliged to do anything. Alternatively they could be required to attend somewhere and wait for instructions. A lot depended on local attiudes. But Spare days were often ones where they did no work, but still got paid: they were not Rest Days. It might seem a waste to have staff sitting around doing nothing, but in an industry with fluid demand, you need to have sufficient staff to cover the worst shortages, even if they aren’t fully employed at other times

 

[mailbyrail]

The roster clerk had one of the most difficult roles trying to ensure everything was covered and if it wasn't, finding the best combination within national agreements, local practices and knowing who could be relied upon to fill the gap.
Overtime was a big motivator for some people but would hardly tempt some others who strictly worked their regular shift.
Others could be quite fickle as to whether they would be available or not, but could be relied upon to get upset if they thought they were being overlooked for what should be their overtime even though it was almost certain they would turn down the request if they had received it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Hours could be gruelling - some places had plenty of staff who were not fully employed , (lack of work basically and local management had not made the basic cuts they should have) , other places short of warm bodies to roster for work but neverthless the job had to covered / resourced somehow.

As an example , as a management trainee of Supervisor Grade "D" sent to Ipswich and dealing the Freightliner traffic which should have been an easy 0830 - 1630 daytime basis , due to the explosion of work in the early 1980's I typically did 0730 to 1930 Monday to Friday , Saturday 0800 to finish - say 1400 and often got sent to Felixtowe or Harwich for extra duties on Sunday - so 60 hours M-F , paid 10 hours minimum for Saturday and double time (minimum 12 hours on Sunday + reasonable travelling time etc) - so I made lots of money but basically got no leisure time !

When promoted to Management Scale 1 (MS1) at Felixstowe - the hours Monday - Friday no different , expected to work "free" on Saturday - but got a permenant on call. Paid 38 hours. (but I did get 1st class travel - !!!!) , management then had a cunning "any other duties as expected" on the job description , and "time off" given for overtime (hollow laughter) , being at the Haven Ports was a bad move as whilst some places had declining traffic - we were awash with it.

Very hard work and expected to deal with pretty much everything - good for the soul perhaps , but I was young and keen ......idealistic maybe.....(wish I had kept a diary) - too tired I expect.

 

[91104]

When I was a fitter at Bounds Green in the 90s we worked a 3 week recurring roster that went as follows:
week 1Sun R/D Mon R/D Tue 08:00-18.00 Weds 08.00-18.00 Thurs 08.00-18.00 Fri 08.00-18.00 Sat 08.00-18.00
week2: Sun 08.00-18.00 Mon 08.00-1800 Tues 08.00-18.00 Weds 08.00-18.00 Thurs R/D Fri 22.00-06.00 Sat 22.00-06.00
week 3: Sun 22.00-06.00 Mon 22.00-06.00 Tue 22.00-06.00 Weds 22.00-06.00 Thurs 22.00-06.00 Fri R/D Sat R/D and back to week 1.

Looking at it now it looks brutal especially the 9x 10 hour day shifts in a row but we still worked our restdays on top. Saturdays and Sundays were outside the working week and rostered overtime paid at time & 3/4 for Saturdays and double time on Sundays plus time and 1/3 for nights so we could earn a semi decent wage even on a low basic. Certainly enough to get me on the property ladder in London at the age of 21 but not sure my body could do those sort of hours now especially with it being manual work.

 

[306024]

Can somebody define "short rest" for me as I've heard it used in different ways in different contexts.

The only time I saw ’short rest’ it was on a March drivers diagram in the early 1980s that worked to Great Yarmouth and back, with a long break in the middle. The diagram was something like 11 hours long with at least 4 hours break at Yarmouth (the short rest) after shunting and running round your own train. It was double manned (personned?). These type of diagrams tended to be used for excursions or summer dated trains. I guess flexible rostering did away with old agreements like that.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Maybe some old BR lag can educated me on what exactly the "spoilt food allowance" was - one of these bizarre old allowances in the long gone conditions manuals........

 

[The Puddock]

Maybe some old BR lag can educated me on what exactly the "spoilt food allowance" was - one of these bizarre old allowances in the long gone conditions manuals........

Here you are -


(image shows pages 26 and 27 of the BR ‘blue book’ conditions of service for conciliatory staff from 1985)

 

[6Gman]

Here you are -

View attachment 141105
(image shows pages 26 and 27 of the BR ‘blue book’ conditions of service for conciliatory staff from 1985)

Which prompts another question.

What is a "Double Home Term" ?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Double Home = Lodge Turn. The idea behind spoilt food allowance is that if you shorten a turn and don’t give the member of staff enough notice, his previous meal assumptions may have been changed without him either knowing or being able to do anything about it.

The main groups that this applied to were the train crew and general conciliation grades, such as signalmen.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Here you are -

View attachment 141105
(image shows pages 26 and 27 of the BR ‘blue book’ conditions of service for conciliatory staff from 1985)

Splendid - thank you very much indeed.

There is an ancilliary comment there on "dredging" , possibly the most unusual / intriguing job I ever saw advertised on the very much missed BR weekly vacancy list was for the "Head of Dredging at Harwich Parkeston Quay" - Supervisor C no less , so a 3 braided cap would have been supplied .

 

[Andy873]

Wow guys, you really put a shift in then, well many actually!

I like the fact that many of you would accept overtime so one of your colleagues could have time off, of course you'd hope they would do the same back for you.

And if I can ask, what about holidays? how many days off a year could you take? I'm guessing that would depend on your grade / job that you did / length of service?

I'm presuming it would have been very hard to get time off during the busy summer holiday period?

Back in the day, say the 1950's & 60's would you have been paid weekly or monthly? I know for a long time it was customary for lots of manual workers (in other industries) to be paid weekly.

Free travel, did you get it just for yourself or if you had a family could they travel with you for free as well?

 

[75A]

I was a Second Man @ Brighton MT in the early 80's, colleagues were always happy to swap their 'night turns' for my day ones so I could usually work at least 3 weeks of nights a month. I would call nights any when with a start time between 20:30 to 23:59 on my lates week & 00:01 to 05:00 on earlys. I think Saturdays were part of a normal week & Sundays were overtime, of which there was lots mainly due to engineering work, which often meant a taxi to the site, sit there doing nothing for 6 to 8 hours and then a taxi back.
Weekday overtime was usually available and for me more often than not was 'on loan' to Redhill meaning I got to destinations that Brighton drivers didn't sign for such as Guildford, Woking & Tonbridge.

I don't remember any problems with booking leave but then again I was single so not bothered about the school holidays.
We were definately paid weekly.

 

[Gloster]

Holidays in my days were four weeks a year, but then an odd day was added. For most jobs the holidays were rostered so that only a limited number of people were off at a time. You had to take them when they were allocated, but could swap with other staff if it was workable. One week was taken early on in the year, two in summer and one late in the year. The Christmas and New Year period was closed to annual leave. The holiday rosters were arranged so that you would all get a turn at the best weeks (not first come, first serve), but in one place I worked it was the custom (unofficial, but accepted by management) to swap so that the relatively few blokes with school-age children got the school holidays, but the roster still came out in its original fair pattern.

Most locations which were near their full establishment of staff (many weren’t in such a position) would be able to cover the unscheduled leave in peak summer as few had an enormous bulge in requirements, with a few possible exceptions, such as traincrew in Devon and Cornwall. Covering unscheduled leave would be done by Rest Day working, shifting Relief Men around, overtime and all sorts of little tricks known to Roster Clerks. But taking extra leave was not, in areas that I worked in, a massive problem as it wasn’t that well-paid a job and we needed the money, and because the attitude was that if you didn’t accept that you had to put up with inconveniences like not always being free whenever you wanted, you shouldn’t have taken the job.

Bank holidays were automatically worked if you were required: if they didn’t need you you didn’t come in and just got a flat day’s pay. If you did work on a bank holiday you got a marginally higher rate of pay and an extra day’s leave (lieu day/comp(ensatory) day): this could be taken within one year of the original day and was a major source of those odd extra day’s leave. (I used to put mine together to a get an extra week’s holiday.)

Free travel was, I think, only for married partners and children under 18. I don’t think that co-habitées were expected to be granted free travel.

Weekly pay was the norm right into the mid-1980s when there was a push to go to monthly bank transfer, but I don’t know when this became compulsory. (Or am I confusing cash with bank transfer here?)

 

[6Gman]

Weekly pay was the norm right into the mid-1980s when there was a push to go to monthly bank transfer, but I don’t know when this became compulsory. (Or am I confusing cash with bank transfer here?)

Circa 1990 there was still one bloke in our office who insisted on keeping weekly cash payment (everyone else had long since gone to bank transfer).

Free travel was, I think, only for married partners and children under 18. I don’t think that co-habitées were expected to be granted free travel.

I think children over 18 could retain travel facilities if they were in full-time education ands/or dependent on their parents. I certainly kept mine when I went to university aged 19. I think my mother kept hers until she married, aged 24. Sensibly she married a railwayman so - like me - had travel facilities from the cradle to the grave!

I think the extension to co-habitees came in the 1980s (?) and to same-sex partners later.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Back in the day, say the 1950's & 60's would you have been paid weekly or monthly? I know for a long time it was customary for lots of manual workers (in other industries) to be paid weekly.

Free travel, did you get it just for yourself or if you had a family could they travel with you for free as well?

I started back in the 1970s just after Decimal currency came in. The first day I was given a lengthy talk by the Chief Clerk in the Staff Office on the merits of having my money paid into a Bank. I didn't have a Bank account then, so I was given a letter to take across the road to the local Bank and they set up an account there and then. I took the details back to the Staff Office, who then entered up the Bank details to pay my wages into the Bank. At that time Saleried staff were paid four weekly, but as the system was already into the next four weekly period I was paid out in cash for the next three weeks 'to keep me going', I remember my first pay packet was for £17.50.
There was a pitfall to receiving four weeks money in one go, the temptation to spend it. However I soon got used to budgeting my finances. (I know of some who didn't !).

I think when I started I was allowed six 'free tickets' a year, this went up in steps over the number of years served ? You would tend to save these 'free' tickets for long distance trips. Other than that you got your 'Priv' card, so you could get reduced rate tickets all over the BR network, and the London Underground. I think it was based on a quarter rate of the Ordinary Single or Ordinary Return, not on Cheap Day Fares. I made extensive use of my travel facilities over the years, and being in London to start with the cheap travel on the Underground was extremely useful.

 

[91104]

And if I can ask, what about holidays? how many days off a year could you take? I'm guessing that would depend on your grade / job that you did / length of service?

When I started in 1991 we got an annual leave allowance of 21 days plus 9 bank holidays on top. If you were rostered to work on a bank holiday you got double time plus a day in lieu to take whenever you wanted so as a result bank holiday working was very popular. Indeed I remember one occasion when they needed a skeleton staff to come in on Boxing Night and because everyone wanted to come in our supervisor ended up tossing a coin to decide who got to come in.
From what I remember we was rostered 2 weeks off in the Summer period (May-September?) with the other days being taken whenever you wanted. You also used to see people coming in to work the middle weekend during these 2 weeks as they didn’t want to lose their Saturday & Sunday as these were outside the working week and you would lose a fair bit of money. BR did have an ‘Annual leave premium’ which was designed to reimburse some of the money you would lose being on leave but with the weekend enhancements losing up to 37 hours pay was too much for some. This was the same reason people would go sick Monday-Friday come in to work their weekend and go sick again on the Monday.

 

[Gloster]

When I started in 1991 we got an annual leave allowance of 21 days plus 9 bank holidays on top. If you were rostered to work on a bank holiday you got double time plus a day in lieu to take whenever you wanted so as a result bank holiday working was very popular. Indeed I remember one occasion when they needed a skeleton staff to come in on Boxing Night and because everyone wanted to come in our supervisor ended up tossing a coin to decide who got to come in.
From what I remember we was rostered 2 weeks off in the Summer period (May-September?) with the other days being taken whenever you wanted. You also used to see people coming in to work the middle weekend during these 2 weeks as they didn’t want to lose their Saturday & Sunday as these were outside the working week and you would lose a fair bit of money. BR did have an ‘Annual leave premium’ which was designed to reimburse some of the money you would lose being on leave but with the weekend enhancements losing up to 37 hours pay was too much for some. This was the same reason people would go sick Monday-Friday come in to work their weekend and go sick again on the Monday.

Where I worked the week or two week annual leave started on a Monday: you could work the Sunday before but the one at the end was the the prerogative of whoever was covering your job, although you could come in if they absolutely couldn’t find anyone else. There was also no question of coming in to work the middle weekend. There was very much an attitude of fair treatment for the Relief staff who did not get guaranteed Sundays.

Who got the turns on days like Boxing Day was decided by who would have done the turn, or the nearest to it, had it been a normal day: all this was covered by local agreements. Anybody who was sick in the week, but managed to come in at weekends before going sick again would very soon find themselves highly unpopular and with very limited career prospects.

 

[75A]

I remember a great Boxing Day, we signed on @ 00:01 & took 2 73's 'light' to Victoria, one worked the 03:23 Brighton & the other the 03:27 Eastbourne paper trains.
The journey up to Vic was quick...........

 

[The Puddock]

Weekly pay was the norm right into the mid-1980s when there was a push to go to monthly bank transfer, but I don’t know when this became compulsory. (Or am I confusing cash with bank transfer here?)

I don't know about the traincrew side of the industry but it became compulsory for signalmen as part of the 1994 Railtrack Signalling Grades Restructuring Agreement:


(image above shows a screenshot from the 1994 Railtrack Signalling Grades Restructuring Agreement)

 

[whoosh]

Can somebody define "short rest" for me as I've heard it used in different ways in different contexts.

The only time I saw ’short rest’ it was on a March drivers diagram in the early 1980s that worked to Great Yarmouth and back, with a long break in the middle. The diagram was something like 11 hours long with at least 4 hours break at Yarmouth (the short rest) after shunting and running round your own train. It was double manned (personned?). These type of diagrams tended to be used for excursions or summer dated trains. I guess flexible rostering did away with old agreements like that.

I can't remember if it was referred to as "short rest" or "double home", but a book I once read about a Saltley (Birmingham) driver, had him describe a similar such Sunday turn, which involved Birmingham New Street to Hull on a DMU, and back, with a similarly long (about 4 hours again) break.
I think it was basically two jobs, or a 'split shift' really, as I dont think he was paid straight through for the entirety of the day, but could be wrong.

Which prompts another question.

What is a "Double Home Term" ?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I worked at a Telephone Enquiry Bureau in the late 70s.

That seemed to be a common point of entry for many I worked with later in Planning. Was never offered it myself, and started 'booking' in Signalling grade straight from school. The norm being eight hours, earlies/lates weekdays, but where I was this very quickly turned in to many 12 hour shifts, usually 7 to 7, due to sickness/leave etc. After two consecutive weeks of twelves (at a busy location) a week of straight eights was a nice reprieve, as much as one liked the job. Every other Saturday it was almost a given that OT would be worked in an adjoining box, which made a break from the norm. Good times as far as I remember.

Very rarely, the 'bobbies' might do the odd doubling back shift, sometimes needed due to sickness or some such, for example, do a week of nights, then go straight in to a week of lates the same day as one had come off nights. For some it was pointless going home if they lived more than a few miles away, so a supply of very comfortable seat cushions (ex 4 SUB or similar) were laid on the floor behind the frame...just enough space in this instance....but whoever was on duty during this changeover would need to be very quiet with the levers....there was now't to be done about the bells though....this was long before Hidden of course.

Italics. Edited/added to clarify.

 

[Falcon1200]

At that time Saleried staff were paid four weekly, but as the system was already into the next four weekly period I was paid out in cash for the next three weeks 'to keep me going', I remember my first pay packet was for £17.50.

Similarly, when I joined BR in 1978 (as a trainee Clerical Officer Grade 1, CO1), my first week's wage was paid cash - £37.50! I had never had so much money in my hand. Thereafter I was paid 4-weekly, however wages grade staff were still paid in cash, weekly, and I recall being surprised, and embarrassed, that even at my lowly grade I was earning more than the local PW gang, most of who were wizened and bent over from decades of toil outside.

 

[Gloster]

Similarly, when I joined BR in 1978 (as a trainee Clerical Officer Grade 1, CO1), my first week's wage was paid cash - £37.50! I had never had so much money in my hand. Thereafter I was paid 4-weekly, however wages grade staff were still paid in cash, weekly, and I recall being surprised, and embarrassed, that even at my lowly grade I was earning more than the local PW gang, most of who were wizened and bent over from decades of toil outside.

The same year I was only earning £28 and something pence before deductions. That was as an 18 year old Junior Railman.