Bullying surrounding trainspotting

[Rail Quest]

On suggestion by another user, I thought I'd create a thread about bullying of trainspotters in schools and/or general abuse that may be received at all ages of life as this is an element of the hobby I've long accepted as being "part of it". However, recent discussions in another thread have suggested that it may not have been as long ago as I'd expected that trainspotting was, at the very least, not something people would be targeted for.

As a bit of backstory, both myself and my friend who got me into the hobby were bullied in school for having this hobby (we're in our early 20s now so would have been in school during the mid 2010s) and this ranged from relentless but simple name calling to (on rare occasions) physical assaults. Speaking to other trainspotters of our age - I'm yet to find someone in that age range who didn't get bullied because of it aside from those who never told anyone in school out of fear of being bullied. This also has extended beyond school and I have, on occasional, heard abuse being shouted at spotters on platforms of particular stations (particularly by football fans) and have heard some worrying stories in the past on similar cases.

My question to forum users is - what is your experience with both bullying in school related to trainspotting and abuse at transpotters when out and about if you are comfortable sharing experiences? It would be interesting to hear your perspectives and peoples opinions on the wider affect this could have on the hobby/community.

 

[Iskra]

Just to clarify, are you referring to trainspotters ie people who stand on platforms taking down numbers, or rail enthusiasts in general?

 

[PGAT]

I'm still in school and my observations are that nobody really seems to care.

 

[Kernow_Celtic]

I think the current younger generation are far more accepting of differences than was probably the case 20 or so years ago. I'm not convinced that a person is necessarily bullied  because they like trains, but possibly because of other charachteristics they may happen to have. On the whole I find current youngsters far more open to the differences that make us all great rather than focusing on and mocking the negatvies.

 

[Rail Quest]

Just to clarify, are you referring to trainspotters ie people who stand on platforms taking down numbers, or rail enthusiasts in general?

Rail enthusiasts more generally. Though I'm assuming the people who actually go out spotting would be more at risk as it would be more obvious that they are enthusiasts.

I'm still in school and my observations are that nobody really seems to care.

That's cool to here! Is that whilst being open about being an enthusiast as well or is it something you don't tend to discuss (if you don't mind me asking)?

 

[PGAT]

That's cool to here! Is that whilst being open about being an enthusiast as well or is it something you don't tend to discuss (if you don't mind me asking)?

I have been open about it, although I rarely talk about it nowadays because nobody seems to have the mutual interest

 

[Rail Quest]

I think the current younger generation are far more accepting of differences than was probably the case 20 or so years ago. I'm not convinced that a person is necessarily bullied  because they like trains, but possibly because of other charachteristics they may happen to have. On the whole I find current youngsters far more open to the differences that make us all great rather than focusing on and mocking the negatvies.

This is an interesting point though from my perspective - it differs greatly depending on the school/area and demographic. Our school was a rougher all boys school in a pretty middle class area and acceptance became better as the students moved from the lower to higher years at the school. My friend may definitely have had it worse than I did as a result of other factors perhaps but I wouldn't therefore infer that my generation were more accepting. I find them to be more accepting of specific groups of people than how ever many years ago but I don't necessarily think this has resulted in a more accepting generation.

This could be an unfortunate side effect of dealing with prejudice in the way our society has - by specifically raising awareness to specific cases of prejudice (such as racism or homophobia), we don't necessarily address the route of why people would be marginalised in the first place which then leads to other groups not covered by awareness campaigns to get no attention, so people will always find a group to mock. If the issues come from people having a lack of respect for another person based on any difference, then I've long held the opinion that we need to focus on ensuring people are generally respectful rather than listing all of the groups they should not marginalise (when I would argue no group of people with differences should be). I very much appreciate though there are cases where the level of disrespect and lack of understanding may be so high that we are unable to deal with it purely with such an approach.

Yes - but not me too much. This is a family forum so I will need to be careful as there maybe victims.
The hobby mainly includes young males. It therefore creates what could be called a "target rich environment" for certain predatory aspects of society.

Yeah I appreciate the potential sensitivity of the topic.

What would be meant by target rich environments perhaps? Would this be referring to a concentrated group that can be easily targeted by other groups?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I left school ten years ago but tried as much as possible to keep it under wraps. I only let it out during a school trip which involved us getting off at West Brompton station, where I pointed out the green paint on the footbridge handrails, were from the brief period after privatisation when the line was operated by "North London Railways". A girl mockingly, but half seriously asked if I was autistic - turns out I was!

 

[Rail Quest]

I left school ten years ago but tried as much as possible to keep it under wraps. I only let it out during a school trip which involved us getting off at West Brompton station, where I pointed out the green paint on the footbridge handrails, were from the brief period after privatisation when the line was operated by "North London Railways". A girl mockingly, but half seriously asked if I was autistic - turns out I was!

Thanks for sharing. That's an interesting one! I've found there I've never really been able to keep it under wraps and find myself bringing up trains in many conversations that it isnt necessary haha.

Side note, I'm assuming there's perhaps a correlation specifically between autism and trainspotting to some extent as I certainly know more people in the community who are openly diagnosed or suspected (like myself) to be autistic than there are in places outside of the hobby. If this is the case, perhaps this is where my perception of bullying for being a trainspotter has come from - instead, people are being bullied for perhaps showing often associated autistic traits and the trainspotting thing is just the proxy for this?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Thanks for sharing. That's an interesting one! I've found there I've never really been able to keep it under wraps and find myself bringing up trains in many conversations that it isnt necessary haha.

Side note, I'm assuming there's perhaps a correlation specifically between autism and trainspotting to some extent as I certainly know more people in the community who are openly diagnosed or suspected (like myself) to be autistic than there are in places outside of the hobby. If this is the case, perhaps this is where my perception of bullying for being a trainspotter has come from - instead, people are being bullied for perhaps showing often associated autistic traits and the trainspotting thing is just the proxy for this?

It's certainly possible. I've always felt like it was impossible to "be like" everyone else, and I think people picked up on that. I think the way everyone felt different to me, I felt different to everyone else. That will draw attention to yourself, and might make you a target for bullying

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I must admit I'd have never admitted my interest in school. Such an interest, unfair and cruel as it is, would have absolutely trashed my reputation among my year group. That's what teens were like at my place. Anyone who admitted to liking railways was seen as a geek, autistic or weird. I kept strictly to my love of ice hockey and Spurs.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I mentioned trains quite a bit during secondary school, especially towards the end as I became more social, so those I knew decently well knew that about me, I never really received any negativity from it (or if I did, it was in jest/minor enough to not remember). I was odd enough as it is that people knowing any train enthusiasm would've probably just been accepted as is.

Into college my whole class knows me as the train nerd, and if they need help with train stuff they know who to ask, and I'm always happy to help.

I think the idea of hobbies differentiating from typical ones (e.g. sports) is more accepted as time progresses.

 

[yorkie]

I think the idea of hobbies differentiating from typical ones (e.g. sports) is more accepted as time progresses.

Absolutely.

Rail enthusiasts more generally.

The two are not synonymous; no-one tries to claim that a football 'statto' has much in common with a regular football supporter/player, or use these concepts interchangeably, and it's no different with trains/railways in my opinion. A more similar comparison may be with cars; the average car enthusiast would have no interest in 'spotting' cars, as such.

Being a rail (and/or train) enthusiast isn't going to cause many kids to bat an eyelid these days. It's considered absolutely normal for kids to be interested in all sorts of stuff that was previously not considered "cool". Being into trains/railways is probably never going to be seen to be as cool as being into cars/planes, but would still be seen as a legit interest, by most kids these days.

However, spotting may be seen by some kids to be a bit odd/eccentric, and I have no doubt some kids would tease over that, but it's nothing like the bad old days when comedy TV programmes encouraged the mocking of people who engage in such activities.

Autism is much more commonly diagnosed and accepted these days, and kids openly talk about having autism, so those who have an interest in something which is a clear indicator of autism, such as spotting, are going to be at much lower risk of being bullied than in years gone by. But the risk is not zero. But, where incidents sadly do occur, I think that bystanders are going to be much more likely to report and not accept bullying, than was the case in the past.

Bullying can never be eliminated, but there are a lot of areas in which bullying is far less likely to occur in schools now than was the case previously, and this is one of them.

 

[peterblue]

There are many different hobbies within the rail community, not all of which involve 'spotting' trains.

Some people (myself included) are more interested in travel generally, and the logistics surrounding it.

Nowadays, people are more open and more accepting compared to previous generations.

 

[778]

I was happy to tell people I liked trains at primary school, but not at secondary school. I barely mentioned it to anyone from year 7 onwards.

However, spotting may be seen by some kids to be a bit odd/eccentric, and I have no doubt some kids would tease over that, but it's nothing like the bad old days when comedy TV programmes encouraged the mocking of people who engage in such activities.

Do you think that if your school years were between the early 80s and late 00s that would be the worst time to admit to being a railway enthusiast at school? Before the 80s it was more common for young people to be interested in trains, and in more recent years the hobby has become more accepted, even if there are less rail enthusiasts now than 50-60 years ago.

 

[Strathclyder]

Having left school over a decade ago (2012), I don't seem to recall being singled out for or being bullied for having a interest in trains/buses/public transport as a whole. I didn't bring it up that often, saying that. I had been diagnosed with Asperger's at a very young age and this fact was well-known among my classmates by the time I reached high school; I guess they assumed it'd be a given I'd have such an interest and left well enough alone. That's just the hand I was dealt and I stopped giving a damn what others think a long time ago.

I have had some problems since leaving school and college though, when the photographic side of my hobby started to take hold. Most of it has just been dirty/strange looks, but once (and only once I must add) has it escalated to the point of violence. Since I don't particularly want to rehash the details yet again, I'll just link to the image taken just before it happened:

First Glasgow LK51 UYT (33016) | Route 19A | Castle St (a. Royal Infirmary), Cathedral Precinct

Standard fare on the 19A at the time, ex-Larkfield President-bodied Trident 33016 descends Castle St bound for West Regent St in late May 2017. There's a good reason I've never published this image before now, and it is as follows.... This was taken mere minutes before I was chased down...

www.flickr.com

 

[yorkie]

I was happy to tell people I liked trains at primary school, but not at secondary school. I barely mentioned it to anyone from year 7 onwards

Same; in Year 6 I did 'random' journeys with friends by train; I was never into 'spotting' but I wanted to see HSTs and other Intercity trains, and went go to stations where HSTs passed at speed.

From Year 7 onwards, to a large extent I lost interest and never mentioned it at school. I became more into computer games and cycling. By Year 9 I was more into into football than anything else.

I never attempted to find any friends with an interest in rail travel when I was at secondary school; this wasn't (at least initially) because I realised it may lead to bullying; that realisation only occurred later on.

Do you think that if your school years were between the early 80s and late 00s that would be the worst time to admit to being a railway enthusiast at school? Before the 80s it was more common for young people to be interested in trains, and in more recent years the hobby has become more accepted, even if there are less rail enthusiasts now than 50-60 years ago.

I agree, but the problem was perhaps (largely) confined to secondary schools?

I was at primary school during the period you state and was never bullied for having an interest in railways / trains, nor did it occur to me that may happen!

I would say the primary I attended was a very tolerant and multicultural place and I had quite a culture shock at a very different secondary school. Sadly the transition from primary for secondary can be very stressful and traumatic for a lot of kids and most schools don't do anywhere near enough to combat that; but that's a whole new topic!

 

[GusB]

This is actually a really difficult subject to broach and I don't think it's necessarily to do with trainspotting or railway enthusiasm in particular; I suspect that anyone who indulged in collecting stamps or coins as a hobby would probably be vilified in the same way (I used to collect coins).

The problem is that these hobbies are seen as being "un-macho"; activities in which you can partake and gain some enjoyment from without having to indulge in any sort of competition or communication with anyone else. I was really crap at team sports; I dreaded football at school because I'd be the last one to be picked for a team and the "captain" that the teacher had chosen would inevitably put me in goal, with predictable results!

Music was my thing in secondary school and it was seen as "not straight" (I won't say the actual words) by many of my peers, but I was good enough at it to put my school on the map, along with a few of my classmates. There were many howls of anguish when it was announced that School Colours could be given for activities other than sports.

I didn't mention the railway (or bus) thing at the time because I was far too pre-occupied with other stuff, but there was always this thing at the back of my mind that stopped me from being truly open about my interests and now I wish that I'd been a bit more open about it.

 

[GatwickDepress]

The attitudes towards less-than 'masculine' hobbies have changed considerably over the last few years or so. Previously niche hobbies like Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer 40k have hit the mainstream, and there's a greater tolerance of individuals with interests out of the norm like spottinng pillar boxes or Wetherspoons carpet photography. Trains also have the advantage that railways are in the zeitgeist at the moment from the rise in topics like anti-car centric development and walkable and transit-orientated cities hitting the mainstream.

The stereotype of railway enthusiasts all being anorak-wearing acne-ridden young men with elasticated trousers and NHS specs has gone too. If anything, it's been replaced by tweens with iPhones mounted on tripods screaming or pumping the air for 'tones' at every train that passes by - even students on my course have noticed them.

 

[Rail Quest]

I have had some problems since leaving school and college though, when the photographic side of my hobby started to take hold. Most of it has just been dirty/strange looks, but once (and only once I must add) has it escalated to the point of violence. Since I don't particularly want to rehash the details yet again, I'll just link to the image taken just before it happened:

Oh gosh, that sounds horrific - hope you're doing well since in spite of such an incident

This is actually a really difficult subject to broach and I don't think it's necessarily to do with trainspotting or railway enthusiasm in particular; I suspect that anyone who indulged in collecting stamps or coins as a hobby would probably be vilified in the same way (I used to collect coins).

The problem is that these hobbies are seen as being "un-macho"; activities in which you can partake and gain some enjoyment from without having to indulge in any sort of competition or communication with anyone else.

Fully agreed

 

[Harry Douthwaite]

I've been looking for a thread like this for a few months, glad to see someone took the initiative to take on this topic.

It seems it is a common rite-of-passage for anybody seriously interested in trains. I've observed that my own experiences are quite different from others, though.

I spent the first five years of my life in the proximity of the Hertford East branch, and frequently traveled by train to visit family. At that time there was only one kid who made fun of me. But at the age of six, I was whisked away to a rural market town in the middle of Norfolk with the nearest mainline rails over twenty miles away (East, South or West). As a kid, it was the equivalent of being forced to live on another planet, with only one or two visits back 'home' possible every month. Even then, spotting opportunities only happened three or four times a year, for an hour or so if my Dad was in a good-enough mood to take me. It created such an illusion of isolation that it still bothers me to this day, as while many other rail enthusiasts were bullied too, most of them weren't isolated to such extremes. Imagine constantly being mocked by your peers, just because of your interest - 'Trains are babyish' (because they could only associate trains with Thomas). For four whole years, an eternity to a preteen as I was then.

Then came the move to Canada in 2004, though that isn't really relevant to this thread.

 

[John Webb]

Interesting reading - at primary school mid to late 1950s nobody bothered much; bullying was mostly about other differences - I admitted to being in a church choir which called forth some criticism until they found out I could get half a crown for 45minutes work at a wedding on a Saturday! At secondary school late 1950s many of us were trainspotters as the school playground backed onto the Mid-Kent line near St John's station - as we moved up the school must of us paid less attention as school work picked up pace as 'O' and 'A' levels approached; also as we 'discovered' girls....
I don't recall any bullying about trainspotting - I suspect that with few families owning cars in the 1950s and early 60s travel by train was regarded as nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[scarby]

I went to school in the 1970s and never ever had a problem and never considered in the slightest that this was something to hide. It is perhaps worth noting that this came before the absolutely hideous stereotyping of 'trainspotters', entirely fuelled by the media, came into effect.

At that time I think trainspotting was, at least in some aspects, still seen as a fairly laddish thing to do and associated with that were some of the more daring aspects to gain respect among your peers which have largely died out - e.g. bunking live depots, jumping down onto tracks to get numbers of locos in stabling points, window hanging, trying to get into stabled locos or carriages, bilking the fare, and answering back to railway staff when challenged. I certainly knew some spotters that no-one would try to mess with.

In adulthood I have never had a problem either and always been proud of being a railway enthusiast. I have always found this to be received positively and people will turn to me for rail-related advice.

With regard to the targeting of spotters on platforms by groups of football fans, perhaps it is worth noting that such groups almost certainly do this to other people - e.g. women who they see as attractive, or possibly unattractive, anyone who looks different, etc., in order to 'prove' themselves to their peers.

 

[RT4038]

In my school life 1962-74 I don't recall any particular bullying about my interest in trains and buses - it was well known and I was the 'go to' person for information on such things from both boys and girls. Were there a few bullies in the school - yes, so I steered as clear as possible and laughed off any issues - maybe that says more about my sensitivity than anything else?

 

[bleeder4]

I am an enthusiast rather than a spotter, although "non train" people don't recognise the difference. At work (non railway related) I am known as the "train guy" and colleagues come to me for advice about how to get cheapest train tickets. None of my family or work colleagues are interested in trains, so it's a relatively solitary hobby. I did try dating a few years ago, but girls tended to disappear once they found out I was into trains. That's fine though, as I live by myself and am used to my own company.

 

[RailWonderer]

The attitudes towards less-than 'masculine' hobbies have changed considerably over the last few years or so. Previously niche hobbies like Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer 40k have hit the mainstream, and there's a greater tolerance of individuals with interests out of the norm like spottinng pillar boxes or Wetherspoons carpet photography. Trains also have the advantage that railways are in the zeitgeist at the moment from the rise in topics like anti-car centric development and walkable and transit-orientated cities hitting the mainstream.

It's interesting because train enthusiasm is a lot more male dominated than car enthusiasm in my view, more women are definitely into the latter, yet trains are less manly than cars. Funny how different hobbies are percieved.

 

[DarloRich]

Just to clarify, are you referring to trainspotters ie people who stand on platforms taking down numbers, or rail enthusiasts in general?

It didn't make much difference when I was 13!

I think the current younger generation are far more accepting of differences than was probably the case 20 or so years ago.

I think that is true. Kids seem to be into & know about so much stuff these days ( much more than when I was a kid) and it generally seems fine.

Having left school over a decade ago (2012), I don't seem to recall being singled out for or being bullied for having a interest in trains/buses/public transport as a whole.

you had a lucky time of it then!

I was at primary school during the period you state and was never bullied for having an interest in railways / trains, nor did it occur to me that may happen!

Primary was fine. Secondary, awful.

I think looking back, generally, a lot of it was jealousy, immaturity, insecurity and a desire to be popular in the people causing the problems. They were so worried they might be found out as not being the super cool yoof they wanted desperately to be that they covered up by behaving like a simpleton towards others. There is also a pack mentality. If someone else is getting attacked that means it isn't you for a few hours so peopel join in!

Although I think in one person it was sadism. They were the sort who would burn insects with magnifiers.

I did try dating a few years ago, but girls tended to disappear once they found out I was into trains.

it is not that people are into trains but that people are ONLY into trains that causes problems. No one wants to feel second best in a relationship do they? I like trains and have no issues with women. Why? Because you have to recognise they aren't really bothered about the tractive effort of a class 66 or the correct livery for a DMU shown on casualty and you have to recognise that sometimes you have to do what other people want to do even if it is dull and boring

BTW My partner has put up with me for nearly 10 years now which is amazing!

Previously niche hobbies like Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer 40k have hit the mainstream, and there's a greater tolerance of individuals with interests out of the norm like spottinng pillar boxes or Wetherspoons carpet photography

I think social media, for all its awfulness, allows you to easily find other weirdos who like the same weird things you do!

 

[Rail Quest]

I spent the first five years of my life in the proximity of the Hertford East branch, and frequently traveled by train to visit family. At that time there was only one kid who made fun of me. But at the age of six, I was whisked away to a rural market town in the middle of Norfolk with the nearest mainline rails over twenty miles away (East, South or West). As a kid, it was the equivalent of being forced to live on another planet, with only one or two visits back 'home' possible every month. Even then, spotting opportunities only happened three or four times a year, for an hour or so if my Dad was in a good-enough mood to take me. It created such an illusion of isolation that it still bothers me to this day, as while many other rail enthusiasts were bullied too, most of them weren't isolated to such extremes. Imagine constantly being mocked by your peers, just because of your interest - 'Trains are babyish' (because they could only associate trains with Thomas). For four whole years, an eternity to a preteen as I was then.

That's a really interesting perspective. I can imagine this really could have an additional affect on one's mental health. Hope you're doing better now

I like trains and have no issues with women. Why? Because you have to recognise they aren't really bothered about the tractive effort of a class 66

xD I should be taking notes from this

In all seriousness tbf - I've struggled to get into any relationship so far though I don't think trainspotting has caused any problems as:
1) If someone wouldn't be accepting of me having such a hobby - I wouldn't want to be with them anyways, simple as.
2) Its hard to tell but there could well be a range of other things that I don't notice about how I act around other people that actually put people off but thats a criticism of myself haha.

 

[DarloRich]

1) If someone wouldn't be accepting of me having such a hobby - I wouldn't want to be with them anyways, simple as.

Absolutely - although I would say that there needs to be give and take on both sides. Deciding to "be with someone" must surely mean compromise on things we might like to do/find boring

With my current partner neither of us have to pretend about things. We are both a bit odd and can happily be odd together! We have, for instance, taken up lighthouse spotting. Dont ask................

xD I should be taking notes from this

I didn't say I was good with relationships (until this one!)

 

[Purple Train]

Into college my whole class knows me as the train nerd, and if they need help with train stuff they know who to ask, and I'm always happy to help.

Indeed, that's broadly been my experience as well (so far), although it's only come out when sorting out extracurricular stuff involving travel with friends (and it helps that lots of them have hobbies and interests which are also commonly picked on). While part of me thinks I would have encountered a greater degree of mocking/teasing had I taken a slightly more conventional route through education, overall I think that it's exactly the kind of thing that is less made an issue of any more (possibly unless you're out in the field), and certainly nobody has targeted me in a malicious way over it. Whether that's because spotting/other "strange" activities have become more widely tolerable, or whether I'm simply too scary an oddball to even speak to, I don't know!