BillStampy
Member
thats odd, i thought they weren't in effect yet, especially if only 3 with standard plus are out in service so far.The saga continues!
thats odd, i thought they weren't in effect yet, especially if only 3 with standard plus are out in service so far.The saga continues!
How can they sell tickets for it when there is such a limited chance of you getting a train that actually has the standard plus section?thats odd, i thought they weren't in effect yet, especially if only 3 with standard plus are out in service so far.
Interesting, rather different to things that have gone out. No wonder train crew are confused!I chased TFW for a reply and the response I’ve been given is:
The saga continues!
It'll be done as a fully onboard upgrade so no tickets should be pre-sold for standard plus.How can they sell tickets for it when there is such a limited chance of you getting a train that actually has the standard plus section?
Could be that one of the crew members working it to Holyhead didn't sign 197s - or that the 197 didn't have enough fuel to get to Holyhead, or otherwise is needed in Cardiff tomorrow and that diagram ends in Holyhead. Lots of potential reasons though I do agree it's not ideal for the passengers.197105 swapped onto Maesteg whilst 150227 goes to Holyhead? Thats a little odd. Still, its the first 197/1 on the Maesteg service so i'll take that. Though that may not be the best for those traveling to Holyhead...
Ah right. If I pay a little extra can they magically upgrade me to a better train?It'll be done as a fully onboard upgrade so no tickets should be pre-sold for standard plus.
If you're on a Standard Plus one you've got 3 coaches....what more could you possibly wantAh right. If I pay a little extra can they magically upgrade me to a better train?
Could be the crew one, as 197105 is now going to work a run up to Cheltenham and back to Cardiff, which is still a pretty long journey overall. Still not as large as Holyhead but still. Also I can only imagine Standard Plus on a service to MaestegCould be that one of the crew members working it to Holyhead didn't sign 197s - or that the 197 didn't have enough fuel to get to Holyhead, or otherwise is needed in Cardiff tomorrow and that diagram ends in Holyhead. Lots of potential reasons though I do agree it's not ideal for the passengers.
I'm not quite sure what 197105 was doing down south... 99% sure I saw it heading for Holyhead at 1429 through Hereford... considering I was standing by it!197105 swapped onto Maesteg whilst 150227 goes to Holyhead? Thats a little odd. Still, its the first 197/1 on the Maesteg service so i'll take that. Though that may not be the best for those traveling to Holyhead...
It seems to have been swapped in Chester to go back to Cardiff.I'm not quite sure what 197105 was doing down south... 99% sure I saw it heading for Holyhead at 1429 through Hereford... considering I was standing by it!
That makes sense!It seems to have been swapped in Chester to go back to Cardiff.
That unit also forms a Manchester Airport working off Holyhead next morning which couples to a 158 at Chester. A 197 can't do that so would cause issues. Its the only 15x that stables at Holyhead so can't be swapped out very easily.If it's the 1941 that's usually a 158 so probably train crew didn't sign 197s
That unit also forms a Manchester Airport working off Holyhead next morning which couples to a 158 at Chester. A 197 can't do that so would cause issues. Its the only 15x that stables at Holyhead so can't be swapped out very easily.
So it does !The first Holyhead-Birmingham Intl is booked a 158 as well. Interestingly yesterday that 0452 Holyhead-Manchester Airport was a 197/1 yesterday and remained so beyond Chester. Presumably the weekend engineering works meant a bit of juggling needed to be done.
I think the reality is it's going to be very difficult, and potentially confusing thing to manage.I am a massive fan of the 197s as you all know, but im not sure i would upgrade to standard plus. If all you get is a slightly more comfortable seat and the lamps im not sure it will be worth the money to upgrade. Possibly if it was very overcrowded, full and standing in standard class and there were seats available in standard plus I would but id be happy I think in standard class if it was a fairly quiet train.
That's certainly interesting! With 197106 on the Holyhead run, it is due to 5 car a Manchester service so that'll change later around the 153 time, so it is possible to swap onto that. No promises though.197105, 197111 and 197019 are all on Cheltenham Maesteg today, with 158834 and a peak pair of 153s. Not a single 150 in sight!
That’s fair as it’s down to people’s personal preference. The upgrade fee is very reasonable so I could see many being happy to pay a little extra for the bigger more comfortable seat, especially on longer journeys.I am a massive fan of the 197s as you all know, but im not sure i would upgrade to standard plus. If all you get is a slightly more comfortable seat and the lamps im not sure it will be worth the money to upgrade. Possibly if it was very overcrowded, full and standing in standard class and there were seats available in standard plus I would but id be happy I think in standard class if it was a fairly quiet train.
It shouldn’t be too difficult, most people will move or pay when (hopefully politely) informed.I think the reality is it's going to be very difficult, and potentially confusing thing to manage.
If it's not possible to pre-book standard premium, then on board sales might be few and far between on certain routes. If there is a full and standing train, would guards be more likely to just allow passengers to use SP or would they guard the door and sell what they can to fill SP? With no on board "first" staff as such, it's just the guard and possible catering staff managing it, and as you say, is the upgrade really worth it in normal circumstances? Does SP premium entitle passengers to extra drinks or snacks? Which i'm guessing would be stored in the catering cupboard even if there isn't any catering staff on board.
It could be a money spinner, people pay for extra legroom seats on Airlines for a few inches more legroom. The wider seats and 2+1 seating may be attractive to some. Does anyone know if XC sell many First seats on their Cardiff - Nottingham services?
In the long run, many of these services will be going from 2-3 car to 4-5 car, so although you'd hope it would increase demand and encourage people back to the railway, I can't imagine there being too many full and standing services if the grand plans work.
It depends on how much the upgrade would cost and how much ive already paid for my ticket. If id booked a very cheap advance for example id be more likely to upgrade. If it was a few pounds id most likely do it but not £20+ extra.That’s fair as it’s down to people’s personal preference. The upgrade fee is very reasonable so I could see many being happy to pay a little extra for the bigger more comfortable seat, especially on longer journeys.
It shouldn’t be too difficult, most people will move or pay when (hopefully politely) informed.
Nope, no free snacks or anything like that as far as I know. You are just paying for the bigger seat, hence the reduced price vs 1st class.
Why not travel in style and treat yourself to TfW First Class?
With First Class services available on our Cardiff to Holyhead, and Swansea to Manchester routes, you can enjoy more space to relax, delicious fresh food* and our greatest comfort for all your getaways. So, why not make it TfW First Class.
*Snacks are inclusive in the cost of a First Class train ticket. Upgrades to full dining are available to purchase on board from the First Class host. Full T&Cs: tfw.wales/first-class
To add to the confusion over classes of travel, I received a marketing e-mail from TFW on Monday which contained the following
So there we go. They seem to be doing a good job of confusing the passengers, and First Class fares are not bookable on their Manchester trains...
I travelled on 197118 in the posh bit from Stockport to Manchester the other day. There was a ticket check and my TfGM bus pass was not questioned.
197118 is 25 minutes late arriving at Bridgend due to a fault, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they swap it at Cardiff rather than keeping it on the Manchester service. That said, they may want to get it up north first and then swap it at Crewe so it can go to Chester perhaps.
Nope, it wasn’t the superior performance, but probably the announcement saying “This train will now call at Newport, Hereford and Shrewsbury only.”Went all the way to Manchester and was on time at Piccadilly. Returned to Cardiff as 1V64 on time virtually all the way.
The northbound, 1W22, picked up a lot of time after Cwmbran (23L). Hereford was 14L, Shrewsbury 3L and on time at Crewe.
There appears to only be 5 minutes of engineering allowances between Cardiff and Crewe, so presumably the superior performance of the 197s is helping make up time.
Common practice is to not call at some stations on that route in order to make it into Manchester for the return working.Went all the way to Manchester and was on time at Piccadilly. Returned to Cardiff as 1V64 on time virtually all the way.
The northbound, 1W22, picked up a lot of time after Cwmbran (23L). Hereford was 14L, Shrewsbury 3L and on time at Crewe.
There appears to only be 5 minutes of engineering allowances between Cardiff and Crewe, so presumably the superior performance of the 197s is helping make up time.
I have noticed quite a few instances of northbound services similarly picking up time when a 197 is operating. If picking one up in Shrewsbury, just because it is pretty late at Hereford, don't assume you will have longer in the pub waiting for it!
https://tfw.wales/ways-to-travel/rail/ticket-types/standard-plus
Just to add to the confusion. There's a whole list of confusing routes, including Birmingham and Cambrian which currently don't see 197s and will unlikely see many 3 cars, if any at all.
It doesn't even go to that level of detail.It's an interesting approach - we can't tell you beforehand if you train will have standard premium, just get on and see...
Common practice is to not call at some stations on that route in order to make it into Manchester for the return working
I think in general TfW could do a bit better at communications. (At least I hope so - it would be depressing to think that this is actually the best that's possible).