CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Herefordian]

197's on North Wales - Manchester and Mk4's on South Wales - Manchester expected from Dec TT change.
Before then it'll mainly be 197's on Blaenau branch, Chester - Liverpool and I would expect Wrexham - Bidston to free up the 150's. Anything else before Dec would be a bonus. 175's will mainly be running South - North until at least mid next year. No train crew training has started in the South yet on 197s.

Thanks for this, nice to know I've still got plenty of time to enjoy the legacy stock on the Marches line.

I don't suppose you know if the rumours of extra 197s being ordered were true, or was it just wibble?

 

[Anonymous10]

I think the intendion on my understanding is the 197001/02, 197004-197021 & 197101-112 are to replace everything 175 operated. The will start on the Blaenau branch and Chester-Liverpool. The 175 withdrawal will start 175 for a 197 on individual basis until 175s are all gone.

197003, 197022-197041 to replace all 158 and are ETCS fitted on the Holyhead & Aberystwyth/Pwllheli-Birmingham’s

197113-197126 3-car fitted with 1st Class to be added to South Wales-Manchester to make 5-car sets. Remaining 2-cars units 197042-051 for West Wales routes.

nice in theory in practice i think the 2 car units will actually just work wherever required

 

[Doveymain158]

197's on North Wales - Manchester and Mk4's on South Wales - Manchester expected from Dec TT change.
Before then it'll mainly be 197's on Blaenau branch, Chester - Liverpool and I would expect Wrexham - Bidston to free up the 150's. Anything else before Dec would be a bonus. 175's will mainly be running South - North until at least mid next year. No train crew training has started in the South yet on 197s.

Exiting times ahead

 

[craigybagel]

In terms of the Manchester services, which is more likely to start first at this rate; Mk4 sets to South Wales or 197s to North Wales?

197's on North Wales - Manchester and Mk4's on South Wales - Manchester expected from Dec TT change.
Before then it'll mainly be 197's on Blaenau branch, Chester - Liverpool and I would expect Wrexham - Bidston to free up the 150's. Anything else before Dec would be a bonus. 175's will mainly be running South - North until at least mid next year. No train crew training has started in the South yet on 197s.

Mk4 to South Wales is looking a pretty safe bet for December, though it may well only be 1 set in service each day at first rather than the full 2 hourly service. 197 training is going pretty well at the North Wales depots but only a handful of Crewe crews and nobody bar instructors at Cardiff or Carmarthen have been trained yet, so there won't be any 197s on Manchester - South Wales for a while. A 197 still hasn't even made it to Cardiff yet.

In my opinion, 197s. Purely because the Mk4s aren't meant to start until December, and I don't know whether they've yet been cleared between Shrewsbury and Crewe.

Mk4s not yet cleared for Shrewsbury - Crewe though there is a date is expected to happen by that should allow enough time for a December introduction. There are no stop boards for them yet either between Shrewsbury and Manchester but there are plans for that as well.

I think the intendion on my understanding is the 197001/02, 197004-197021 & 197101-112 are to replace everything 175 operated. The will start on the Blaenau branch and Chester-Liverpool. The 175 withdrawal will start 175 for a 197 on individual basis until 175s are all gone.

197003, 197022-197041 to replace all 158 and are ETCS fitted on the Holyhead & Aberystwyth/Pwllheli-Birmingham’s

197113-197126 3-car fitted with 1st Class to be added to South Wales-Manchester to make 5-car sets. Remaining 2-cars units 197042-051 for West Wales routes.

You need to be careful making like for like comparisons when the future timetable and service patterns are likely to be very different from how they are now.

 

[Doveymain158]

Mk4 to South Wales is looking a pretty safe bet for December, though it may well only be 1 set in service each day at first rather than the full 2 hourly service. 197 training is going pretty well at the North Wales depots but only a handful of Crewe crews and nobody bar instructors at Cardiff or Carmarthen have been trained yet, so there won't be any 197s on Manchester - South Wales for a while. A 197 still hasn't even made it to Cardiff yet.


Mk4s not yet cleared for Shrewsbury - Crewe though there is a date is expected to happen by that should allow enough time for a December introduction. There are no stop boards for them yet either between Shrewsbury and Manchester but there are plans for that as well.


You need to be careful making like for like comparisons when the future timetable and service patterns are likely to be very different from how they are now.

Well whatever happens come December it’s definately a step in the Right direction. Onwards and upwards I say.

 

[507020]

197's on North Wales - Manchester and Mk4's on South Wales - Manchester expected from Dec TT change.
Before then it'll mainly be 197's on Blaenau branch, Chester - Liverpool and I would expect Wrexham - Bidston to free up the 150's. Anything else before Dec would be a bonus. 175's will mainly be running South - North until at least mid next year. No train crew training has started in the South yet on 197s.

Is there a date for 197s on Llandudno - Blaenau Ffestiniog? Last time I heard this was going to be August.

 

[GWVillager]

Is there a date for 197s on Llandudno - Blaenau Ffestiniog? Last time I heard this was going to be August.

Not aware of a date but I would guess it’s probably going to be one of the earlier ones - two cars, no ETCS etc.

 

[Caaardiff]

Is there a date for 197s on Llandudno - Blaenau Ffestiniog? Last time I heard this was going to be August.

I think it was mentioned on here previously as being around Sept time.

 

[sw1ller]

Early to mid September I was told when I was refreshing on them last week.

 

[anthony263]

5th September was date I’ve seen floating around

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197021 the latest arrival at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal. Arrived on Tuesday 9th August 2022.

 

[childwallblues]

197013 was on LNWR Crewe on Tuesday.

 

[NewClee153]

When are the 197s expected to be starting on the Cambrian Line? It would soften the blow of losing direct services to mid Wales at my local station if I knew the class 158s will no longer be running on the services

 

[craigybagel]

When are the 197s expected to be starting on the Cambrian Line? It would soften the blow of losing direct services to mid Wales at my local station if I knew the class 158s will no longer be running on the services

Not for a while. The Cambrian was expected to be the last part of the network to see the new units and only one ERTMS fitted unit (003) has been delivered so far.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It would soften the blow of losing direct services to mid Wales at my local station if I knew the class 158s will no longer be running on the services

I can't recall any direct services that are planned to be withdrawn; could you jog my memory?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When are the 197s expected to be starting on the Cambrian Line? It would soften the blow of losing direct services to mid Wales at my local station if I knew the class 158s will no longer be running on the services

I can't recall any direct services that are planned to be withdrawn; could you jog my memory?

Smethwick Galton Bridge is planned to lose its Transport for Wales services to Sandwell and Dudley.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Smethwick Galton Bridge is planned to lose its Transport for Wales services to Sandwell and Dudley.

I didn't think Sandwell and Dudley had any Transport for Wales services to lose, and indeed having now had a quick look at RealTimeTrains I couldn't find any - have they already gone?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I didn't think Sandwell and Dudley had any Transport for Wales services to lose, and indeed having now had a quick look at RealTimeTrains I couldn't find any - have they already gone?

I said Smethwick is planned to lose them, to Sandwell who will gain them.

In return, Sandwell will lose its WMT Wolverhampton service which will call at Smethwick.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I said Smethwick is planned to lose them, to Sandwell who will gain them.

In return, Sandwell will lose its WMT Wolverhampton service which will call at Smethwick.

Ah, sorry, I misread it as services from Smethwick to Sandwell (or vice-versa); ie. I thought you meant there were TfW services that called at both allowing passengers to travel from one to the other without changing trains. Thanks for the clarification; I wasn't aware of that plan.

 

[XAM2175]

Ah, sorry, I misread it as services from Smethwick to Sandwell (or vice-versa); ie. I thought you meant there were TfW services that called at both allowing passengers to travel from one to the other without changing trains. Thanks for the clarification; I wasn't aware of that plan.

Don't worry, a very easy mistake to make given how it was written.

 

[tomuk]

I said Smethwick is planned to lose them, to Sandwell who will gain them.

In return, Sandwell will lose its WMT Wolverhampton service which will call at Smethwick.

It seems a poor outcome of the timetable change. TfW users lose a number of destinations available through one change and gain access to the bright lights of Oldbury.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It seems a poor outcome of the timetable change. TfW users lose a number of destinations available through one change and gain access to the bright lights of Oldbury.

I agree, if it were not for the connectional options available at Smethwick Galton Bridge I would suggest that the TfW service should be non-stop between Wolverhampton and New Street.

 

[New York Giant]

I said Smethwick is planned to lose them, to Sandwell who will gain them.

In return, Sandwell will lose its WMT Wolverhampton service which will call at Smethwick.

I agree, if it were not for the connectional options available at Smethwick Galton Bridge I would suggest that the TfW service should be non-stop between Wolverhampton and New Street.

Perhaps in a couple of years time, when the Midland Metro's Wednesbury-Dudley spur goes live, Dudley Port may be seen as a more favourable station for TfW to call at given the connectivity to Dudley and Merry Hill. I've never really understood why Sandwell & Dudley, and Coseley, get calls by Avanti and LNWR respectively. As mentioned upthread, Oldbury isn't winning and tourism awards any time soon. I can see the benefits of Smethwick GB with the routes crossing.

 

[Dai Corner]

I've never really understood why Sandwell & Dudley, and Coseley, get calls by Avanti and LNWR respectively. As mentioned upthread, Oldbury isn't winning and tourism awards any time soon.

I don't know the area, but possibly for operational reasons to minimise overcrowding or facilitate timetabling and maximise line capacity? Or perhaps political reasons if the stations are in marginal constituencies?

 

[craigybagel]

I agree, if it were not for the connectional options available at Smethwick Galton Bridge I would suggest that the TfW service should be non-stop between Wolverhampton and New Street.

Perhaps in a couple of years time, when the Midland Metro's Wednesbury-Dudley spur goes live, Dudley Port may be seen as a more favourable station for TfW to call at given the connectivity to Dudley and Merry Hill. I've never really understood why Sandwell & Dudley, and Coseley, get calls by Avanti and LNWR respectively. As mentioned upthread, Oldbury isn't winning and tourism awards any time soon. I can see the benefits of Smethwick GB with the routes crossing.

I don't know the area, but possibly for operational reasons to minimise overcrowding or facilitate timetabling and maximise line capacity? Or perhaps political reasons if the stations are in marginal constituencies?

Sandwell and Dudley acts as a railhead for Dudley and the Black Country - otherwise people wanting InterCity services would have to trek all the way to the centre of Wolverhampton or Birmingham. Dudley Port might have appeared a more sensible option for this, but with its Island Platform and location on an embankment I'd imagine it would have been a lot harder to extend the platforms (which today are still the shortest of all the stations between New Street and Wolves).

Smethwick Galton Bridge is a handy interchange from the Snow Hill Lines, and Cosely is a busy station with few decent alterative transport links and probably the most deserving of the remaining stations for an extra service behind the half hourly all stops.

However, we're drifting way off topic from 197s so I would suggest leaving it there.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this is a Traction & Rolling Stock thread to discuss updates regarding CAF Civity for TfW

Confirmed timetable changes are welcome to be discussed in the timetable section, while any suggestions, ideas or other speculative posts should be made in the Speculative Discussion section please.

Many thanks

 

[Rhys4567]

At Dolgarrog this morning.

 

[Rhydgaled]

At Dolgarrog this morning.

Are the 197/1s planned to work to Blaenau Ffestiniog or are they just making sure they can get up there in case of an unplanned substitution? Given that ATW used to use a 153 in the winter I doubt three coaches are needed - I suppose they might be in summer (anyone know how much busier it gets?).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are the 197/1s planned to work to Blaenau Ffestiniog or are they just making sure they can get up there in case of an unplanned substitution? Given that ATW used to use a 153 in the winter I doubt three coaches are needed - I suppose they might be in summer (anyone know how much busier it gets?).

It gets a lot busier in summer, hence why First North Western had the Class 101 centre cars which were taken out over winter to save fuel. So being able to substitute one in would be very useful. Plus I believe there is early consideration of running direct through services onto the branch now it will use the same stock as the mainline.

 

[craigybagel]

That's the nice thing about a uniform fleet - it becomes a lot easier to shuffle capacity around the network as required.