Anonymous10
Established Member
I almost hope they're fitting first class to a few so they can concentrate mk4s and 175s on the Manchester route
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CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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craigybagel
Established Member
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Still a long way to go with 197 training at Crewe and Cardiff before you can get them on Manchesters. It's a big step up from the numbers needed to cover a few Holyhead - Cardiff's.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
How many Drivers / Guards are we looking at per depot here?
There was a TfW video posted recently covering the 197 introduction. A South Wales driver training commented that it's hoped they will be in service in South Wales during the summer. That doesn't necessarily mean Marches routes. It could be in and around South Wales routes.
On Tuesday (21/03/23) I saw 197003, 197016, 197024, 197102 and 197042 in Gresty Green Sidings (just west of Crewe Gresty Bridge depot).
197002 was trundling around Cardiff in the morning, and there appeared to be a number of 197s in Crewe South Yard.
197002 was trundling around Cardiff in the morning, and there appeared to be a number of 197s in Crewe South Yard.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Based on what?
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
We are meant to have a few diagrams of Holyhead - Cardiff booked 197 from May. Whether they'll start before that I don't know.
Based on how long it's taken to get around 6 to 8 per day in service at the moment since their introduction in Mid November. Don't forget from May there will be an extra Liverpool to Chester, 2 on Bidston, Crewe.to Chester shuttle, possibly the Shrewsbury to Crewe stopper, Cardiff to Holyhead and some Swanlines apparently. I would be plesantly surprised if many appear in service on the core Manchester to Milford/Fishguard/Carmarthen before December as it is taking quite some time to get them into service fully.
Doveymain158
Member
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I might be wrong the Crewe stopper I’d say is a bit iffy as I’m sure Cardiff drivers do some of them. Don’t think there is going to be enough drivers trained to do it. Crewe stopper is a self contained diagram which uses the same unit nearly all day vice versa.
Some Cardiff train crew will be trained by May as they are intending doing some Holyhead and Swanline with class 197?
Carmarthen will need to be trained before all Manchester to West Wales can switch to 197.
Western 52
Member
How long does it take to fully train each driver on the 197s?
craigybagel
Established Member
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More than what's trained at the moment anyway, put it that way. The two hourly Cardiff - Holyhead service isn't too hard to cover - they're already fine on the Coast section, and it doesn't involve too many drivers for the leg down to Cardiff. The Manchester South Wales gets a lot more complicated since the entire route is longer (once you take into account the West Wales extensions) and none of the depots involved have had all that long for training.
Cardiff do indeed have a small amount of work on the Crewe - Shrewsbury local. No plans for it to go over to 197s any time soon.
Nominally 5 days - 3 days classroom/static and 2 days handling.
Training has slowed down a little of late however as there haven't been enough units available - all available 197s have been in service to cover for 175s.
Jacob Porrett
On Moderation
A heads up to Tuesday next week. The freightliner 47 could be on the 197 drag move with 4G97 into Donnington with barriers and 6Q98 with barriers and the 197. Should be bringing out 197043 hopefully.
Any news on any new 197 diagrams or will there be no increase until the May Timetable change? I guess getting them back on Conwy Valley and Liverpool-Chester may be the only thing happening before May.
From May we are supposed to be getting them on all Llandudno-Manchester as well as the 2 routes I mentioned above plus new routes - some of the Wrexham to Bidston, some of the Cardiff-Holyhead, some of the Cardiff-Swansea stoppers and Chester to Crewe shuttle. Is all that still correct?
From May we are supposed to be getting them on all Llandudno-Manchester as well as the 2 routes I mentioned above plus new routes - some of the Wrexham to Bidston, some of the Cardiff-Holyhead, some of the Cardiff-Swansea stoppers and Chester to Crewe shuttle. Is all that still correct?
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
To us at this stage, it's very very optimistic. They've not even got 101 in service yet which doesn't bode well for the 3 cars. At least 3 x 3car diagrams from May plus spares.
craigybagel
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Last I heard they were still hoping to introduce extra diagrams, including a new route, from mid April. Whether that actually happens or not, time will tell....
Jacob Porrett
On Moderation
Recently 197043 left Donnington and went to Crewe and 197029 has been taken by road from Donnington to Newport for mods.
Anonymous10
Established Member
I suppose if they have enough 2 cars they could be run in multiple in the meantime
Jacob Porrett
On Moderation
197045 arrived by road today from Newport at Donnington RFT in Telford. All numbered up I've been told.
Western 52
Member
Just saw a 4 car 197 pass PBY on 5Z03 Landore to Carmarthen. First time I've seen two 197s in multiple in this area. They were running too fast for me to get their numbers.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
197007 010 and 017 went down today so will be two of those
.
Jacob Porrett
On Moderation
**Mr Donnington Update (1/4/23)**
TFW Class 197045 is the recent addition to the line up of 197s and 196 at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal. 15 units in total at the terminal. 14x 197s and 1x 196.
TFW Class 197045 is the recent addition to the line up of 197s and 196 at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal. 15 units in total at the terminal. 14x 197s and 1x 196.
william.martin
On Moderation
What's that stuck to the front of 196114?
I drove past the other days and it wasn't there.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
I get the feeling it's a mini shunter as I highly expect the units can't move around under their own power there.
Jacob Porrett
On Moderation
Battery shunter mate.
Jacob Porrett
On Moderation
They can run the units under their own power as I have seen it myself happen in the past.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
That's a lot of "work in progress" on somebody's accounts, clocking up debt and storage costs.
I would guess that lot is worth about £40 million at £1 million a coach.
At least the freight terminal is getting some use.
I would guess that lot is worth about £40 million at £1 million a coach.
At least the freight terminal is getting some use.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
Interesting, wouldn't have thought they'd run them until they got to Crewe.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
I tried the 197s at long last on Saturday afternoon 
I am very happy to report that I enjoyed my journies, my first being Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Airport on 197015 then later on Manchester Piccadilly to East Didsbury on 197004.
I found the seats comfortable, although the armrests were slightly too low for my preference they would do. I found legroom to be good, and that cupboard next to the cycle space! Wow that thing is HUGE! I could have a rave in there
The power sockets and lavatories I didn't use, so no comment there. The PIS seemed to function well, and the train in general seemed good. I'm looking forward to a longer journey on one when they finally start service on my local route, but I think overall they'll be well received. I liked them, and I'd even be prepared to do Cardiff to Holyhead in one go on one.
Bring on the 197s through Hereford!
I am very happy to report that I enjoyed my journies, my first being Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Airport on 197015 then later on Manchester Piccadilly to East Didsbury on 197004.I found the seats comfortable, although the armrests were slightly too low for my preference they would do. I found legroom to be good, and that cupboard next to the cycle space! Wow that thing is HUGE! I could have a rave in there
The power sockets and lavatories I didn't use, so no comment there. The PIS seemed to function well, and the train in general seemed good. I'm looking forward to a longer journey on one when they finally start service on my local route, but I think overall they'll be well received. I liked them, and I'd even be prepared to do Cardiff to Holyhead in one go on one.
Bring on the 197s through Hereford!