CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[175001]

197012 has returned to Crewe after moonlighting at Newton Heath for a couple of days.

 

[Diedinium]

Would appear 197104 (1D36) has suffered a fire at Manchester Picc yesterday evening. From what I can read in the control logs it seems it was put out by the under carriage fire suppression bottle.

Was taken back to Chester as ECS on headcode 5D36.

 

[Western 52]

Would appear 197104 (1D36) has suffered a fire at Manchester Picc yesterday evening. From what I can read in the control logs it seems it was put out by the under carriage fire suppression bottle.

Was taken back to Chester as ECS on headcode 5D36.

Let's hope that's a one off incident.

 

[Jez]

Let's hope that's a one off incident.

I agree. The last thing they need is for this to be a problem just as the 197s are finally settling down into service and some longer formations of 3 or 4 cars are becoming more regular.

I noticed a swanline diagram is a 197 today. The one that ends up in Abergavenny (Saturday only) I think this is rare. It's usually a 150 or pair of 153s

 

[Plasmanoodle]

197115 giving a ‘first class’ service on the Crewe - Chester shuttles today.
Are there any other 197/1 with standard plus seats due into service soon?

 

[anthony263]

Would appear 197104 (1D36) has suffered a fire at Manchester Picc yesterday evening. From what I can read in the control logs it seems it was put out by the under carriage fire suppression bottle.

Was taken back to Chester as ECS on headcode 5D36.

Theres another issue with the bogies on the 197s. All units got to have the bolts checked according to railway groups on Facebook

 

[sd0733]

197115 giving a ‘first class’ service on the Crewe - Chester shuttles today.
Are there any other 197/1 with standard plus seats due into service soon?

Next one with Standard Plus was said to be around 4 weeks away when 197115 entered service so shouldn't be too far off.

Theres another issue with the bogies on the 197s. All units got to have the bolts checked according to railway groups on Facebook

Correct, issues found on 197045 so the whole fleet is being checked over pits in the next couple of days.

 

[tomoufc]

Next one with Standard Plus was said to be around 4 weeks away when 197115 entered service so shouldn't be too far off.


Correct, issues found on 197045 so the whole fleet is being checked over pits in the next couple of days.

Will that temporarily reduce availability?

 

[sd0733]

Will that temporarily reduce availability?

Slightly, there's about 6 uncovered/swapped diagrams today but won't all be due to checks. Does mean quite a lot of chopping and changing diagrams over the weekend as they've all got to go through Crewe/Chester/Canton/Holyhead for the checks. If any more are found to have problems then it'll cause more availability issues but if they're all given the all clear then it's a fairly short term dip in availability.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197107 has entered service on Manchester - Llandudno services today. The allocation is not in the system so it will not show on RTT, but if anyone wants to get it, it's currently on 1H92 1643 Llandudno - Manchester Airport.

Realtime Trains | 1H92 1643 Llandudno to Manchester Airport | 06/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 1H92 1643 departure from Llandudno to Manchester Airport on 06/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This leaves only 102 and 103 of the first batch of 197/1, followed by the remaining 197/1B units - which I'm looking forward to greatly as I think 197115 is very nice.

 

[BenBracken]

Definitely seems to be several 15x units on MHN - MCR services the last few days, more than a week ago. Does seem to be they put the older units on late night/weekend services more, which would make some form of sense as they would have less passengers. Which makes me wonder if TfW will keep a few 153 sets for several more years for late night and Sunday services to allow for 197s being taken offline for maintenance etc?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Definitely seems to be several 15x units on MHN - MCR services the last few days, more than a week ago. Does seem to be they put the older units on late night/weekend services more, which would make some form of sense as they would have less passengers. Which makes me wonder if TfW will keep a few 153 sets for several more years for late night and Sunday services to allow for 197s being taken offline for maintenance etc?

That's not at all why they do it. They don't have the flexibility to run things according to passenger load at the moment. It's because Sprinters are based in Cardiff and 197s are based in Chester, so they need to be aiming towards getting the right fleet to the right base at the end of the day.

 

[BenBracken]

That's not at all why they do it. They don't have the flexibility to run things according to passenger load at the moment. It's because Sprinters are based in Cardiff and 197s are based in Chester, so they need to be aiming towards getting the right fleet to the right base at the end of the day.

That would make sense. Is the plan to replace all 15x services with new units (apart from HoWL) in the next 12-24 months? I was told once by a TfW employee to that the 153s are owned outright by them whilst other units were leased. So they could keep them as backup?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

That would make sense. Is the plan to replace all 15x services with new units (apart from HoWL) in the next 12-24 months? I was told once by a TfW employee to that the 153s are owned outright by them whilst other units were leased. So they could keep them as backup?

Only certain 153s are owned. About half are still leasing company property.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That would make sense. Is the plan to replace all 15x services with 197s (apart from HoWL) in the next 12-24 months?

If it takes as long as 24 months I (along with a great deal of other long suffering users of the TOC) will be furious, but yes, most of them.

Exceptions include Maesteg/Cheltenham/Ebbw (interim 197 but eventual 231), Pontypridds (replaced with on interim 756 but eventual 398), Bay (398 not 197) and Vale of Glamorgan (756 not 197)

They’re not bothering with 197s on the Cambrian until Dec 24, but 150s should be off the mainline fairly soon, and if the 756 interim introduction on Pontypridds goes well, gone from TfW for good not too long after.

 

[43096]

Only certain 153s are owned. About half are still leasing company property.

Sets 03/07/12/18/27/28/31/52/53/62/68/72/82 are TfW owned, the rest are Porterbrook.

 

[Jez]

153s may well end up doing the occasional long distance service even when they are just booked for the HOWL.

I read in a railway magazine a few months ago that sets will be stabled at Canton, Camarthen, Crewe and Shrewsbury overnight, so even if movements between Canton and Swansea are ECS one would assume Canton would need to be trained on them still and Carmarthen and Shrewsbury depots will for the HOWL so its not impossible they could end up on other workings.

Back to the 197s and does anyone know whether the ERTMS 197s will end up on other routes initially (much like the standard plus 197115 is currently) or will they just be exclusively for the Cambrian/Birmingham routes?

 

[sd0733]

153s may well end up doing the occasional long distance service even when they are just booked for the HOWL.

Unlikely as there wont be the traction knowledge required for that to happen

 

[Jez]

Unlikely as there wont be the traction knowledge required for that to happen

Wouldnt Cardiff need to be trained on them still if they are to be stabled at Canton? Or maybe that plan has changed and their depot will be elsewhere.

 

[sd0733]

153s may well end up doing the occasional long distance service even when they are just booked for the HOWL.

I read in a railway magazine a few months ago that sets will be stabled at Canton, Camarthen, Crewe and Shrewsbury overnight, so even if movements between Canton and Swansea are ECS one would assume Canton would need to be trained on them still and Carmarthen and Shrewsbury depots will for the HOWL so its not impossible they could end up on other workings.

Unless something has changed dramatically since then that's certainly not the plan. Plans aren't 100% finalised but there hasn't been any intention so far of using either Canton or Crewe for them.

Wouldnt Cardiff need to be trained on them still if they are to be stabled at Canton? Or maybe that plan has changed and their depot will be elsewhere.

My reply has split! See below!

Back to the 197s and does anyone know whether the ERTMS 197s will end up on other routes initially (much like the standard plus 197115 is currently) or will they just be exclusively for the Cambrian/Birmingham routes?

At the moment 197115 is just a 3 car 197 at least until Standard Plus Is implemented that's why it just ends up anywhere. ERTMS sets u believe will have to visit Chester for heavier Work and if the timetable is as is now then they'll end up working Birmingham to Holyheads but I believe there's an intention of splitting that out eventually to concentrate the ERTMS sets on Cambrian workings.

 

[craigybagel]

I read in a railway magazine a few months ago that sets will be stabled at Canton, Camarthen, Crewe and Shrewsbury overnight, so even if movements between Canton and Swansea are ECS one would assume Canton would need to be trained on them still and Carmarthen and Shrewsbury depots will for the HOWL so its not impossible they could end up on other workings.

Wouldnt Cardiff need to be trained on them still if they are to be stabled at Canton? Or maybe that plan has changed and their depot will be elsewhere.

Unless something has changed dramatically since then that's certainly not the plan. Plans aren't 100% finalised but there hasn't been any intention so far of using either Canton or Crewe for them.

Sounds like someone has just gone by how things used to be and assumed they wouldn't change in future.

No access to ATC Crewe or Canton depot without Crewe and Cardiff drivers respectively signing 153s, and the last I heard there are no plans to do so. Bringing them on and off the depots does not provide enough work for drivers to remain competent, and there are no plans to use them on any other routes so it's not practical.

 

[Jez]

Sounds like someone has just gone by how things used to be and assumed they wouldn't change in future.

No access to ATC Crewe or Canton depot without Crewe and Cardiff drivers respectively signing 153s, and the last I heard there are no plans to do so. Bringing them on and off the depots does not provide enough work for drivers to remain competent, and there are no plans to use them on any other routes so it's not practical.

Thats what i was thinking that there would need to be some booked workings for train crew to main knowledge on them if they were to go to Crewe and Canton. But with neither Carmarthen or Shrewsbury having a maintenance depot (just train crew depot) then they will need to go somewhere.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Thats what i was thinking that there would need to be some booked workings for train crew to main knowledge on them if they were to go to Crewe and Canton. But with neither Carmarthen or Shrewsbury having a maintenance depot (just train crew depot) then they will need to go somewhere.

Landore is what's being looked at I believe.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Not a jot of signage yet so I sincerely hope no one has been asked to move before.

I rode 115 from Stockport - Piccadilly a couple of days ago. If you walk up the train from standard class, the doors to the premium area are marked 'First Class'. No other signs visible inside the area itself as far as I could see, but the area was full. I bagged the only available seat which was over the bogies.

Unlike some units with First Class, where you can check on the front as the train approaches (eg TPE185), I didn't see any identifying marks on the couplers or wherever to indicate which end of the train it would be.

Even on that short sector, tickets were checked and no issues

 

[The_Train]

I bagged the only available seat which was over the bogies.

Is there any better seat on the UK network than a seat over the bogies of a CAF unit?
There should be a chiropractor waiting at your destination to help get your spine back out of your brain

 

[Western 52]

Is there any better seat on the UK network than a seat over the bogies of a CAF unit?
There should be a chiropractor waiting at your destination to help get your spine back out of your brain

Hopefully they will be able to improve the ride eventually....

 

[CHAPS2034]

Is there any better seat on the UK network than a seat over the bogies of a CAF unit?
There should be a chiropractor waiting at your destination to help get your spine back out of your brain

It's the nearest thing us older northerners can get nowadays to a ride on a 142

 

[The_Train]

It's the nearest thing us older northerners can get nowadays to a ride on a 142

I should be thankful for them maintaining a bit of railway history

I don't think pacers were as bad as CAFs - at least 142s had a bit of bounce to them whereas CAFs feel like you're hitting very large potholes when they go over any points

 

[tomoufc]

I heard that the ride quality improved on the 195s after bedding in. Could be the same for the 197s (as they’re essentially the same)?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197107 has entered service on Manchester - Llandudno services today. The allocation is not in the system so it will not show on RTT, but if anyone wants to get it, it's currently on 1H92 1643 Llandudno - Manchester Airport.

Realtime Trains | 1H92 1643 Llandudno to Manchester Airport | 06/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 1H92 1643 departure from Llandudno to Manchester Airport on 06/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This leaves only 102 and 103 of the first batch of 197/1, followed by the remaining 197/1B units - which I'm looking forward to greatly as I think 197115 is very nice.

Do we know what 107 is on today please? I believe it ended in Chester. The 1030 off Manchester towards South Wales started in Chester and is oddly not showing with allocations just like 107 did yesterday. Is it possible it might be that?