CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

I thought services from Birmingham were no longer going to Holyhead due to Cambrian being hourly? This would free up space between Shrewsbury and Chester for the eventual 2 hour extension of the Liverpool service to Cardiff every 2 hours.

Incidentally, it was 2 years ago today that the very first 197 entered passenger service on the Conwy Valley line. Look how far we have come in those 2 years!

 

[Krokodil]

I thought services from Birmingham were no longer going to Holyhead due to Cambrian being hourly?

I don't know where you heard that, but if anything they would combine at Shrewsbury to form a four-car train to Birmingham.

 

[Lurcheroo]

The full hourly service is only going to run May - September on the Cambrian and I haven’t heard any plans for the Aberystwyth - Shrewsbury services to be extended beyond Shrewsbury.

This would free up space between Shrewsbury and Chester for the eventual 2 hour extension of the Liverpool service to Cardiff every 2 hours.

As @craigybagel said above, there are no plans for this to happen in the short term.
In fact looking again at the internal call PowerPoint slide, it’s says 1train per hour Liverpool - Llandudno so clearly the plan is for all of them to go to Llandudno. I would consider any extension to Cardiff as dead in the water at this point.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As @craigybagel said above, there are no plans for this to happen in the short term.
In fact looking again at the internal call PowerPoint slide, it’s says 1train per hour Liverpool - Llandudno so clearly the plan is for all of them to go to Llandudno. I would consider any extension to Cardiff as dead in the water at this point.

With some (as now) to Wrexham?

 

[Lurcheroo]

With some (as now) to Wrexham?

There was no mention of it, but looking at RTT there is only 1 service a day that extends to Wrexham.

 

[WirralLine]

There was no mention of it, but looking at RTT there is only 1 service a day that extends to Wrexham.

1 morning one that starts in Wrexham having ran empty from Chester, and 1 evening one to Wrexham from Liverpool, which then works a return journey to Liverpool at around 1915.

 

[Christian Schm]

As far as I understand the two-hourly Liverpool - Cardiff service (which would give 2tph between Shrewsbury and Cardiff) has been ‘postponed’. That certainly my notes from a TfW briefing, so on a Saturday evening I can’t find that now. The obvious follow-up question of ‘until when’ was answered by something like ‘we don’t know yet’.

But TfW explicitly confirmed that it is still planned. And that the long-term plan is to fulfil the Metro plans of turn-up-and-go (i.e. 4 tph) on all routes for the Cardiff Capital Region

 

[BillStampy]

Realtime Trains | 5V94 0739 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Holyhead | 19/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5V94 0739 departure from Holyhead Car. M.D. to Holyhead on 19/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Two Cambrian 197s showing as in service tomorrow

 

[SeaKing]

Then

Realtime Trains | 5V94 0739 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Holyhead | 19/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5V94 0739 departure from Holyhead Car. M.D. to Holyhead on 19/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Two Cambrian 197s showing as in service tomorrow

Working 1V94 0805 to Cardiff

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Then
Working 1V94 0805 to Cardiff

When I had the misfortune of living in Cardiff, I always used to jokingly moan that whenever a new 197 was put into service, it would spend it's first few weeks on North Wales Manchesters, so I could never get it. Typically, since I've moved to Manchester the recent few have spent their time on South Wales services or Holyhead Cardiffs

 

[BillStampy]

When I had the misfortune of living in Cardiff, I always used to jokingly moan that whenever a new 197 was put into service, it would spend it's first few weeks on North Wales Manchesters, so I could never get it. Typically, since I've moved to Manchester the recent few have spent their time on South Wales services or Holyhead Cardiffs

Funny enough, it ends up at Canton

 

[robert thomas]

When I had the misfortune of living in Cardiff, I always used to jokingly moan that whenever a new 197 was put into service, it would spend it's first few weeks on North Wales Manchesters, so I could never get it. Typically, since I've moved to Manchester the recent few have spent their time on South Wales services or Holyhead Cardiffs

Surely you mean privilege

 

[chrisjo]

Surely you mean privilege

I'm sure, just careless typing.

 

[sd0733]

The 3rd accepted ERTMS set, 197031 has run ecs from Crewe to Canton this morning too.

 

[St. Paddy]

The 3rd accepted ERTMS set, 197031 has run ecs from Crewe to Canton this morning too.

Which ones are the first 2?

 

[sd0733]

Which ones are the first 2?

197030 and 033 which are currently en route to Cardiff on: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L40477/2024-11-19/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[St. Paddy]

197030 and 033 which are currently en route to Cardiff on: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L40477/2024-11-19/detailed#allox_id=0

Thanks

 

[sd0733]

197003 is also accepted and was planned to replace faulty 197020+014 at Chester heading to Holyhead. Unfortunately 003s first activity in service was to be declared a failure and it's service to be cancelled.

That's 58 197s now accepted with 19 (197022-029/032/034-041/123/126) to go.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197003 is also accepted and was planned to replace faulty 197020+014 at Chester heading to Holyhead. Unfortunately 003s first activity in service was to be declared a failure and it's service to be cancelled.

That's 58 197s now accepted with 19 (197022-029/032/034-041/123/126) to go.

How did 003 fail? Another "thermal incident"

 

[sd0733]

How did 003 fail? Another "thermal incident"

Multiple door faults I believe. Luckily not one of those!

 

[Jez]

Good to see some more 197s in passenger service. I managed a quick ride on 197030 this evening!

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Has Standard Plus been scrapped or is it rubbish I’ve read on Facebook?

 

[Anonymous10]

Has Standard Plus been scrapped or is it rubbish I’ve read on Facebook?

I went in standard plus from Haverfordwest to Cardiff at no extra cost on Monday so assume at minimum it's been delayed.

 

[Topological]

Swansea was always the long-term plan anyway.

In other news, Standard Plus is officially dead.

This post from @Krokodil is from 13th November. Swansea relates to the splitting and joining when the 5-car 197s come to Manchester services.

It is good news about standard plus going, but still means that the units have less capacity than they could have.

 

[WirralLine]

Yes standard plus has been axed and is to be de-branded in the future. I believe due to discrimination concerns as there is no disabled access etc.

 

[Caaardiff]

Yes standard plus has been axed and is to be de-branded in the future. I believe due to discrimination concerns as there is no disabled access etc.

Wasn't that the while point of it being rebranded as Standard Plus with a buy on board product and not being First?

 

[WirralLine]

Wasn't that the while point of it being rebranded as Standard Plus with a buy on board product and not being First?

Yes it was!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would it have been ridiculously unpractical to take the 197s in one at a time and shift the premium seating and tables to the cabside two-thirds of the other driving coach, relocating the standard seating and tables to the two-thirds where SP had originally been?

I know that sounds a hoo ha, but then TfW would just be able to offer one single "First Class" product across their Manchester South Wales services, the only difference being of course that enhanced catering would be available to purchase on the 67 hauled services only - but if you ask me that's no different to how FGW offered Travelling Chef and Pullman on some HST services but not all, with many just having Express Cafe.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Wasn't that the while point of it being rebranded as Standard Plus with a buy on board product and not being First?

I'm amazed it got that far with it being a discrimination issue. Telling a disabled person they can't buy something a service due to their disability, be it on board or a 1st class ticket, is discrimination.

 

[berneyarms]

It is staggering that this wasn’t a consideration when the trains were being designed.