Caledonian Sleeper

[6Z09]

This sort of treatment is just going to stop people using it as it becomes less and less dependable. Nobody wants that additional stress when travelling.


Even if they didn't, they were more or less running ghost trains so it would hardly have been a stressful shift most nights

Ghost trains were they? Really?
Some more research required!
During early lockdown, people from all over the world were arriving and departing from UK airports. Many used the Sleeper as National Express had suspended coach services.
The sleeper ran continuously, a fair amount of "essential travellers" in addition to NHS staff, who were afforded free travel, and all the above mentioned international travellers, dogs, cats in baskets and an incredible amount of luggage didn't really make for a stress free shift for on board staff!

 

[HST274]

Its all part of the rail adventure premium tourist escape room experience, let's face it sensible travellers have already booked in to their hotel in Scotland having taken an evening flight from London City.

An opinion. Some people come with low expectations and enjoy it greatly, others were tricked by the advertisement (or expected a king sized bed and a palace for a bedroom). Neither are not sensible. The following on tripadvisor shows the very opposite of an insensible person:

Fun trip. We had the Club bunk bed room and next time I would definitely be looking at the double bed as the top bunk was a tad snug for me! Shower is unusable in my opinion but loo is handy. We took our own snacks etc & woke up to see most of the great scenery in Scotland. We expected to it to be cramped and noisy so no surprises there. Breakfast was white roll with piece of back bacon in, OJ, flapjack and some brown water posing as coffee. Just about managed to fit 2 med suitcases in room, one under bunk & one against door. In the morning we opened our door as did others and watched the scenery from both sides of train. Service was friendly and we had no issues.

As bold shows with the correct expectations it can be very fun. This person gave 5 * despite broken shower, bad coffee because they expected it and looked to make the best of it. Also to play devil's advocate is it not insensible to travel by plane within the country when the clear effects of global warming are already appearing. After all a Scotland to London flight is estimated to produce 177kg of CO2 per customer. (For reference an Azuma train is estimated to produce only 28KG per person). But that is off topic I know.

 

[Falcon1200]

Think you're forgetting EWS / DB were the traction providers in ScotRail days - so would've been their control fulfilling the role GBRf control perform now.

The comparison should be between ScotRail Control and CS Control (Service Delivery Managers).

No, EWS/DB were nothing more than traction providers, all operational decisions concerning the Scotrail Sleepers were made by Scotrail Control in Glasgow. After the split to CS the information I provided as a NR Controller to my Scotrail counterparts went to GB Railfreight Control instead.

 

[Happilyretired]

Absolutely no operational staff were furloughed, suspect all you like these are the facts.

I agree that staff were not furloughed, they were paid in full when they were not required to work due to the cancellation of the FTW and ABD portions of the Highlander and the amended/reduced capacity Lowlander. Therefore for much of their working week they would be at home

 

[HST274]

Things aren't going well for CS. Fort William portion delayed by 85 mins due to a points failure, hardly there fault but diminishing PR even more.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Quick question if I may. Is the Aberdeen 4 coaches at the moment? Seats, Lounge, 2x beds?

 

[najaB]

Quick question if I may. Is the Aberdeen 4 coaches at the moment? Seats, Lounge, 2x beds?

That's what it normally is during the summer (or is it three beds), the 'extra' coach goes to Ft William.

 

[HST274]

That's what it normally is during the summer (or is it three beds), the 'extra' coach goes to Ft William.

I believe Aberdeen is two beds a lounge and seats and fort William has 4 beds, a lounge and seats and the two 'extra' beds alternate but I may be wrong.

 

[najaB]

I believe Aberdeen is two beds a lounge and seats and fort William has 4 beds, a lounge and seats and the two 'extra' beds alternate but I may be wrong.

That sounds about right. It's been a while since I've used the Sleeper.

 

[CaptainBen]

Given the much vaunted "hotel on wheels" branding, I'd suggest that maybe CS needs to hire people from outside 'the industry'. Perhaps from, say, the hospitality sector? Hiring a manager to come in and recognise that some of the service provided is atrocious for a hotel might actually shake things up a bit.

Regardless of the merits of the decision, CS has clearly decided not to be just a train operator; however, that does mean that many of its passengers customers guests have a different expectation.

 

[PauloDavesi]

I can imagine the reaction of the "Hotel Inspector" Alex Polizzi to the service provided by the CS. It would probably be the most explosive and damming episode of the series ever.

At a time where there are ever increasing demands on the tax payers funds, serious thought should be given to the viability of the sleeper service, and if the public funds used to subsidise the service could be betetr spent, and benefit more people, elsewhere.

 

[JonathanH]

The public arrival time of the Highland Sleeper at Euston appears to have moved to 0800 (from 0747), yet its path is unchanged and 1R05 0526 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston which follows it in still has a public arrival time of 0750. Is this just to avoid paying out for delays or is there a timetabling reason for the later advertised arrival time?

 

[Bald Rick]

The public arrival time of the Highland Sleeper at Euston appears to have moved to 0800 (from 0747), yet its path is unchanged and 1R05 0526 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston which follows it in still has a public arrival time of 0750. Is this just to avoid paying out for delays or is there a timetabling reason for the later advertised arrival time?

WTT is still 0747.

Advertised booked arrival time this morning is 0815. Guests will be half an hour early!

 

[Deafdoggie]

The public arrival time of the Highland Sleeper at Euston appears to have moved to 0800 (from 0747), yet its path is unchanged and 1R05 0526 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston which follows it in still has a public arrival time of 0750. Is this just to avoid paying out for delays or is there a timetabling reason for the later advertised arrival time?

I imagine it's so they can say "vacate berths on arrival" in the timetable. Then the hosts can evict you on arrival rather than have you hanging around for 13 minutes...or evict you 13 minutes early.

 

[SlideintomyTMs]

Given the much vaunted "hotel on wheels" branding, I'd suggest that maybe CS needs to hire people from outside 'the industry'. Perhaps from, say, the hospitality sector? Hiring a manager to come in and recognise that some of the service provided is atrocious for a hotel might actually shake things up a bit.

Regardless of the merits of the decision, CS has clearly decided not to be just a train operator; however, that does mean that many of its passengers customers guests have a different expectation.

That's exactly what they did (and are still doing) during my time there and lead to a lot of issues because they didn't understand the limitations of rail and the stock they had. Nearly all the management are ex hotel managers and high ranking hospitality people with very few railway folks involved. Its clearly not worked

 

[6Z09]

That's exactly what they did (and are still doing) during my time there and lead to a lot of issues because they didn't understand the limitations of rail and the stock they had. Nearly all the management are ex hotel managers and high ranking hospitality people with very few railway folks involved. Its clearly not worked

Absolutely spot on !
They know best, and are not in the least interested in staff feedback.
Doubtful if they even care!

 

[SteveM70]

That's exactly what they did (and are still doing) during my time there and lead to a lot of issues because they didn't understand the limitations of rail and the stock they had. Nearly all the management are ex hotel managers and high ranking hospitality people with very few railway folks involved. Its clearly not worked

They need both, and a culture where they work constructively together to deliver the best possible product and service to their customers.

I guess the clue is in the “hotel on wheels” phrase - they need people who know about hotels and people who know about the wheels

 

[Bletchleyite]

They need both, and a culture where they work constructively together to deliver the best possible product and service to their customers.

I guess the clue is in the “hotel on wheels” phrase - they need people who know about hotels and people who know about the wheels

Having those two things essentially separate served the night trains of mainland Europe pretty well for years - the relevant national railway(s) for the operational aspect and Mitropa, Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits etc for the sleeping car hospitality.

 

[Butts]

They need both, and a culture where they work constructively together to deliver the best possible product and service to their customers.

I guess the clue is in the “hotel on wheels” phrase - they need people who know about hotels and people who know about the wheels

Is this prevalent on Firsts Night Riviera Service ?

 

[RT4038]

Having those two things essentially separate served the night trains of mainland Europe pretty well for years - the relevant national railway(s) for the operational aspect and Mitropa, Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits etc for the sleeping car hospitality.

And with the Pullman car company in the USA

 

[SteveM70]

Is this prevalent on Firsts Night Riviera Service ?

They don’t market (and price) their product that way

 

[Happilyretired]

Remember this quotation from Serco CEO Rupert Soames in 2014

“It is effectively a hotel on wheels and we are not a hotelier,” Rupert Soames says

He was referring to the Ghan and Indian Pacific products operated by Great Southern Rail in Australia and he made that statement just before Serco sold that Company. Makes you wonder what he saw in the Caledonian Sleeper product which was so different

 

[AberdeenBill]

Received a text from CS at about 3:30pm yesterday informing me that due to 'late notification of staff sickness' my journey to Aberdeen would be diverted to Perth where we would arrive around 05:40 and that ticket acceptance had been arranged with Scotrail on the 06:00 to Aberdeen. I knew this from Monday, having been alerted by this forum and subsequently checking RTT. Therefore i don't buy the 'late notification' of staff sickness. I suspect they inform you last minute so you don't cancel and deprive them of income.
In fairness the staff on the train and at Perth station where I'm currently sitting in the CS guest lounge were excellent. We didn't arrive into Perth until about 06:00 and the Scotrail train had departed by the time we could have got to Platform 2. Given that there were about 20 passengers in transit i would have thought it could have been held for 5 mins. Now on the 07:02 from Perth. Looking on the bright side, i have never been to Perth Station which is a lovely Victorian (i think) structure and at least the delay should provide some Delay Repay.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Received a text from CS at about 3:30pm yesterday informing me that due to 'late notification of staff sickness' my journey to Aberdeen would be diverted to Perth where we would arrive around 05:40 and that ticket acceptance had been arranged with Scotrail on the 06:00 to Aberdeen. I knew this from Monday, having been alerted by this forum and subsequently checking RTT. Therefore i don't buy the 'late notification' of staff sickness. I suspect they inform you last minute so you don't cancel and deprive them of income.
In fairness the staff on the train and at Perth station where I'm currently sitting in the CS guest lounge were excellent. We didn't arrive into Perth until about 06:00 and the Scotrail train had departed by the time we could have got to Platform 2. Given that there were about 20 passengers in transit i would have thought it could have been held for 5 mins. Now on the 07:02 from Perth. Looking on the bright side, i have never been to Perth Station which is a lovely Victorian (i think) structure and at least the delay should provide some Delay Repay.

What a shambles, not delaying the 6:00 a.m. train when everyone knew the CS was en-route is unforgivable.

It's almost like it wasn't held on purpose. I would have been livid.

 

[6Z09]

Received a text from CS at about 3:30pm yesterday informing me that due to 'late notification of staff sickness' my journey to Aberdeen would be diverted to Perth where we would arrive around 05:40 and that ticket acceptance had been arranged with Scotrail on the 06:00 to Aberdeen. I knew this from Monday, having been alerted by this forum and subsequently checking RTT. Therefore i don't buy the 'late notification' of staff sickness. I suspect they inform you last minute so you don't cancel and deprive them of income.
In fairness the staff on the train and at Perth station where I'm currently sitting in the CS guest lounge were excellent. We didn't arrive into Perth until about 06:00 and the Scotrail train had departed by the time we could have got to Platform 2. Given that there were about 20 passengers in transit i would have thought it could have been held for 5 mins. Now on the 07:02 from Perth. Looking on the bright side, i have never been to Perth Station which is a lovely Victorian (i think) structure and at least the delay should provide some Delay Repay.

The "Late notification of staff sickness" excuse is getting a bit tired now, every man and his dog knows full well it's down to staff not working on their rest days.
And as you say, been well flagged in advance on this very forum.

 

[Highlandspring]

What a shambles, not delaying the 6:00 a.m. train when everyone knew the CS was en-route is unforgivable.

It's almost like it wasn't held on purpose. I would have been livid.

The assumption you’re making there is that ScotRail knew anything about it in the first place.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The assumption you’re making there is that ScotRail knew anything about it in the first place.

If they're accepting CS tickets, one would hope they knew.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The assumption you’re making there is that ScotRail knew anything about it in the first place.

Sadly this is true, which is why it's a complete shambles.

I guess at the end of the day, those who could make a difference in the organisation really don't give a chuff.

 

[InOban]

The single track sections (out of Perth and South of Montrose ) mean surely that delaying the departure of the 06.00 would likely have messed up train operations for much of the day. I'm sure that staff are under strict instructions to ensure on-time departures.

 

[najaB]

The single track sections (out of Perth and South of Montrose ) mean surely that delaying the departure of the 06.00 would likely have messed up train operations for much of the day. I'm sure that staff are under strict instructions to ensure on-time departures.

Delaying the 0600 departure would have delayed the Dundee to Glasgow service (calls Perth at 0611) at the very least.