Caledonian Sleeper

[JonathanH]

Easiest way to save a locomotive as it stands is to have the Glasgow shunt engine work the trunk legs of the Highland sleeper - eg follow departure from Glasgow at 2340 with a southbound departure from Edinburgh at 0140, and opposite in the morning.

 

[BRX]

Whenever electrification reaches Perth I wonder if there will be an argument for splitting Aberdeen/Inverness there instead of Edinburgh. I realise there's still fort William to think about.

 

[ajrm]

the loco departs glasgow 2330 ish after the glasglow portion has departed, would get to Edinburgh at 0100 ish read for the highlander at 0330 ish

...and then it gets to Aberdeen, stays there all day and brings the Aberdeen portion down the following night, which means that it's not able to do the Glasgow ecs!

The Aberdeen portion ties up a loco in such a way that it's only free in the central belt for a few hours each night.

Whenever electrification reaches Perth I wonder if there will be an argument for splitting Aberdeen/Inverness there instead of Edinburgh. I realise there's still fort William to think about.

That might have worked if the Strathmore Line was still open! Both portions depart the same way with a separate loco. But as things stand now you'd need to detach the Aberdeen portion with a loco on the back, pull it away southbound and run round to access the Dundee lines. Or vice versa with the train in the Dundee platforms. Doesn't take the Fort William into account as you say, and you lose all the station calls in Fife.

 

[adrock1976]

GB Railfreight announces seven-year deal to support new era for Caledonian Sleeper - GBRf

"...new era of the Caledonian Sleeper, operating seven trains a night..."

Interesting that they mention class 99s as an option for the future.

Regarding the bit in bold, have I missed an extra two sleeper trains here?

When I did maths at primary school many, many years ago, 3 (Highland portions) plus 2 (Lowland portions) equals 5.

Did Truss and Kwarteng compile the press release, being as they were rubbish at maths?

 

[JamieL]

Regarding the bit in bold, have I missed an extra two sleeper trains here?

When I did maths at primary school many, many years ago, 3 (Highland portions) plus 2 (Lowland portions) equals 5.

Did Truss and Kwarteng compile the press release, being as they were rubbish at maths?

Plus the 2 coming north? Ahead of splitting of course.

 

[alistairlees]

Regarding the bit in bold, have I missed an extra two sleeper trains here?

When I did maths at primary school many, many years ago, 3 (Highland portions) plus 2 (Lowland portions) equals 5.

Did Truss and Kwarteng compile the press release, being as they were rubbish at maths?

Two leave London
Five leave Scottish cities
Slightly odd way of looking at it, I agree

 

[Bill57p9]

Easiest way to save a locomotive as it stands is to have the Glasgow shunt engine work the trunk legs of the Highland sleeper - eg follow departure from Glasgow at 2340 with a southbound departure from Edinburgh at 0140, and opposite in the morning.

The Glasgow shunt 92 usually does trip over to Edinburgh and back in the early morning.

Alternatively send the Edinburgh lowlander portion 92 back from Carstairs to Waverley to work the Highlander down the WCML. And likewise for the down Highlander plus Edinburgh portion.

They will be some rationale in the current arrangement though.

 

[jagardner1984]

Presumably however there is also an element that GBRF are paid to get the train from A to B - how they do that is basically their problem - and therefore have perhaps specifically chosen Loco fleets that have a good amount of Slack in them - and therefore flexibility should one go down or need to be redeployed as has been suggested here.

I’d imagine if you have a yard full of 92s - if you put the same mileage by the same drivers across 10 or 20 of them makes not much difference to you.

Presumably the 73s cannot go on for ever and are of increasing prospect of sitting down and causing a contract breach - even with the inter working with another more flexible loco attached to it - so the Class 99 would add flexibility and the possibly of retiring some very old locos.

 

[BRX]

Two 73s on the inverness portion this morning.

 

[DelW]

Two leave London
Five leave Scottish cities
Slightly odd way of looking at it, I agree

If I've thought it through correctly, it's the maximum number of separate trains on the move at any one time, so there's some logic there.

Depending on the exact timetable, that may happen twice a night:
1) when all trains have departed, but before any up portions have been combined, and
2) when both down trains have been divided, but before any train arrives at its destination.

 

[jagardner1984]

I probably more thought has been put into the 7 train theory in this thread than into the press release !

 

[BRX]

If I've thought it through correctly, it's the maximum number of separate trains on the move at any one time, so there's some logic there.

Depending on the exact timetable, that may happen twice a night:
1) when all trains have departed, but before any up portions have been combined, and
2) when both down trains have been divided, but before any train arrives at its destination.

They should define "train" as a "specific combination of vehicles including passenger carrying sleeper carriages that starts at one place and finishes at another", in which case they could claim 14 per night which would sound better in their press release.

 

[Bald Rick]

They should define "train" as a "specific combination of vehicles including passenger carrying sleeper carriages that starts at one place and finishes at another", in which case they could claim 14 per night which would sound better in their press release.

It’s 10 per night.

 

[Falcon1200]

It’s 10 per night.

Perhaps they could include the ECS workings?!!

 

[BRX]

It’s 10 per night.

Not using my suggested definition.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not using my suggested definition.

Depends whether you include carrying passenegrs a pre requisite!

If not, then it’s 24

 

[theironroad]

.

 

[12LDA28C]

Travelled on the first night back under public ownership on the northbound highlander and was absolutely no discernible difference.

Is it not the same stock and the same staff operating the train? What difference did you expect to see?

 

[LiftFan]

I just hope as it's under Scottish government control they don't extend the alcohol ban to the Cally sleeper!

 

[Caleb2010]

Was it not ScotRail that put the ban in place, rather than the government!!

 

[jagardner1984]

I just hope as it's under Scottish government control they don't extend the alcohol ban to the Cally sleeper!

I’d say the clientele and the issues they bring are somewhat different.

However, as per the Subway, the “zero tolerance” doesn’t count for much if the staff have to step over Buckie bottles to get through the train ! Can’t imagine that in the Club Car ….

 

[Blindtraveler]

No this was Scottish government

There was already a no sale or consumption after 2100 hours policy pre-pandemic and then the pandemic nanny state alcohol ban came in and has never gone away again. One less reason to choose a ScotRail day train for a long journey in my book, and no I'm not vindicating the kind of people that get totally suzzled on crates of supermarket fizzy lager but if you're traveling on a scenic route like the West Highland or a long distance service that is quite frankly a bit dull like the HML in the dark on the last southbound from Inverness, why shouldn't you be allowed to partake in a couple of glasses of wine or some of the truly excellent single malts distilled along the route? For a government that is a obsessed as this one is with tourists and robbing as much money out of the most possible this is I would have said a glaring omission and would be financial ruin for the sleeper and it's catering operation


I should imagine though that it has had the effect of increasing the number of groups of sports fans or indeed just group travel in general private hiring their own vehicle and driver having made an arrangement during the higher process that the passengers on board be allowed to partake in a few on the journey



There was at one stage and attempt to say that it was on health grounds but I think this stopped rather quickly when it was pointed out to them that onboard catering services should you be miraculously fortunate enough to find one on your service still sold crisps and fizzy drinks and a large variety of other somewhat overpriced junk food. The health message would stand up a bit better if it was all freshmade sandwiches on brown bread, fruit bags and herbal tea

Anyhow I digress, if they are to continue with the luxury hotel on rails marketing then I can't imagine your average high paying tourist accepting that they're luxury hotel on rails couldn't sell them anything more controversial than a can of unbranded energy drink and meanwhile at the other end of the food chain, those of us who can now only afford the seats and then only on a good day with a following wind and an early booking discount would be equally stunned and frustrated if we couldn't partake of a couple of nightcaps in a optimistic attempt to actually get some sleep

 

[JamieL]

No this was Scottish government

...

Anyhow I digress, if they are to continue with the luxury hotel on rails marketing...

If its the Scottish Government directing it, why doesn't it apply to Avanti or LNER services during the period they operate north of the border?

Again, the CS is not marketed as a hotel on rails.

 

[Flying Snail]

If its the Scottish Government directing it, why doesn't it apply to Avanti or LNER services during the period they operate north of the border?

Again, the CS is not marketed as a hotel on rails.

At the prices they charge it is very much competing with Hotels and mid-range ones at that, meanwhile the service they offer is more akin to a hostel.

 

[jagardner1984]

I think it’s a Scotrail policy rather than a law or byelaw in place so doesn’t apply on other operators in Scotland.

I note there is also an LNER “dry train” from ABD on a Friday.

It is sadly the truth Scotland in particular has a very unhealthy relationship with Alcohol, with a death rate close to double that of England and Wales (Link), and most can tell a story of a nasty encounter with someone or a group of people drinking on public transport. The main sporting event in the annual calendar is moved earlier in the day specifically so there are less hours of daylight for them to get blind drunk prior to travel. It is a sad reflection on society, and a welcome change to most people I speak to here.

Whilst I don’t think “travelling under the influence” should be banned per se - in a society which is quite safety conscious, packs of peanuts marked “may contain nuts” and car batteries advising you not to drink the battery acid, it has always seemed somewhat odd to me that we regularly have people who cannot stand up unaided staggering around next to a big hole with big lumps of exposed metal carrying deadly voltage (Subway, London Underground and Third Rail Land) and moving blocks of hundreds of tonnes of metal which cannot stop in a hurry.

 

[JamieL]

At the prices they charge it is very much competing with Hotels and mid-range ones at that, meanwhile the service they offer is more akin to a hostel.

In what way?

 

[Tormod]

I think it’s a Scotrail policy rather than a law or byelaw in place so doesn’t apply on other operators in Scotland.

I note there is also an LNER “dry train” from ABD on a Friday.

It is sadly the truth Scotland in particular has a very unhealthy relationship with Alcohol, with a death rate close to double that of England and Wales (Link), and most can tell a story of a nasty encounter with someone or a group of people drinking on public transport. The main sporting event in the annual calendar is moved earlier in the day specifically so there are less hours of daylight for them to get blind drunk prior to travel. It is a sad reflection on society, and a welcome change to most people I speak to here.

Whilst I don’t think “travelling under the influence” should be banned per se - in a society which is quite safety conscious, packs of peanuts marked “may contain nuts” and car batteries advising you not to drink the battery acid, it has always seemed somewhat odd to me that we regularly have people who cannot stand up unaided staggering around next to a big hole with big lumps of exposed metal carrying deadly voltage (Subway, London Underground and Third Rail Land) and moving blocks of hundreds of tonnes of metal which cannot stop in a hurry.

The Friday dry train policy was put in place as a result of offshore workers going home and getting totally pissed on that service. The policy stops at Newcastle.

 

[Butts]

The Friday dry train policy was put in place as a result of offshore workers going home and getting totally pissed on that service. The policy stops at Newcastle.

That would have been possible for free if travelling 1st Class but not on the current parsimonious custodians watch

 

[cb a1]

The Friday dry train policy was put in place as a result of offshore workers going home and getting totally pissed on that service. The policy stops at Newcastle.

Many years ago I lived in Dundee and worked in Edinburgh. The Friday morning East Coast Mainline service from ABD was not pleasant (can't mind who the operator was at the time). Stag and Hen parties, on their way to Newcastle, who, by the time we arrived in Edinburgh before 9am, were often very rowdy.
Even worse was when you had one of each in the same carriage.
Never had a problem with the offshore workers.

 

[JamesT]

If its the Scottish Government directing it, why doesn't it apply to Avanti or LNER services during the period they operate north of the border?

Again, the CS is not marketed as a hotel on rails.

Because the Scottish Government have direct control over Scotrail that they don't over the DfT TOCs?