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Caledonian Sleeper
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D6130
Established Member
What's happening with the Fort William portion during the week-long Rannoch Viaduct blockade at the end of this month? Is it turning round at Crianlarich....or running to Oban again with a bus connection?
greaterwest
Established Member
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Looks like it's a bus from Kingussie. I'd imagine the Fort William portion will run to Inverness as part of that service.
I think it depends which of the two ships you're on.
D6130
Established Member
Thanks. That makes sense, based on previous blockages....then all the stock can be serviced at Inverness.
Planning a trip, and considered using the sleeper for the first time since the new stock came in. Took one look at the prices - minimum of £265 for Inverness -> London, five months ahead - and quickly dismissed that idea.
Clearly this is no longer a service for normal people; we have to fly and pollute instead, if we can't spare the time for the day train.
So, serious question: Who actually uses the sleeper, at these prices? Apart from MPs?
Clearly this is no longer a service for normal people; we have to fly and pollute instead, if we can't spare the time for the day train.
So, serious question: Who actually uses the sleeper, at these prices? Apart from MPs?
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alistairlees
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Lots of people. It is selling better than it ever has, at least in the last 30 years. Mostly leisure travellers though, if you want to be a bit more specific.
Wow. Clearly some people have a lot of money to spare.
Agreed that seems extortionate. However to put in in perspective in late December I booked a classic solo cabin Glasgow/Euston for 9 March - the price was £125 (I have a senior railcard). 72 hrs before travel I was invited to bid for a Seatfrog upgrade to a club solo cabin for £15 which I did and which was confirmed. Considering it saved me the cost of a hotel in Glasgow or London £140 seemed not unreasonable value (to me anyway).
Assuming the Senior Railcard is a 30% discount (I'm not sure if that applies to the sleeper supplement) then that £125 is £179 full fare. That still feels like a lot, but not as outrageous. Sounds like it's £86 extra for the Inverness route :-/
I wonder whether the majority of users are railcard holders. Or travelling as couples, of course - the move to selling by cabin rather than by berth has effectively doubled the fare for solo travellers. Plus, a couple probably has a "Two together" railcard as well - if they're valid on the sleeper (?) then it'd pay for itself in one trip.
Have you compared the CS fares to LNER's peak fares (which would otherwise apply given that you arrive in London before 11:17)?
If travelling as a couple (£305 so £152.50pp) then the fare isn't too different from the Super Off Peak. If you're travelling from Edinburgh then there isn't a Super Off Peak any more on LNER.
I'm travelling from Inverness. Or, actually, a significant distance from Inverness, but that's the relevant sleeper stop. I'm trying to book well ahead, so on day trains I would be using Advance tickets. The day train from Inverness to London is currently £74.10 on similar dates. To be fair, I'd also have to add a hotel night to use it, which would bring it up to.... perhaps half the CS fare or a little over.
You're right that things are a lot more affordable for couples. While there's much about the new approach to sleepers that I dislike, the effective doubling of price for solo travellers (by not allowing you to book a bunk in a shared cabin) is the most egregious.
That's pretty much the level I tend to pay (with a Railcard) between Glasgow and London.
Certainly more cost and time effective than day travel plus an overnight stay. Far more appealing than catching a "red eye" flight.
Without a Railcard I would hazard anything under £200 compares to day travel plus hotel.
I pay from £136 to £188 for an accessible berth from Inverness to London, with my railcard.
I couldn’t sit on an azuma for that long (20 minutes on one and I’m uncomfortable) and if I were to drive I’d be looking at around £100 in fuel and perhaps £60 in a premier inn/ Travelodge
So the sleeper to me is comparable to driving and staying somewhere overnight
I couldn’t sit on an azuma for that long (20 minutes on one and I’m uncomfortable) and if I were to drive I’d be looking at around £100 in fuel and perhaps £60 in a premier inn/ Travelodge
So the sleeper to me is comparable to driving and staying somewhere overnight
Blindtraveler
Established Member
This is going off topic of it but I wonder if the LNER fleet gets new seats or current ones are substantially upgraded as has been discussed elsewhere on this forum if the number of people using the sleeper on some of the longer runs may drop slightly, like yourself I certainly could not do eight hours in standard on one of them and indeed would not be the most comfortable in first either but still more doable,
Should set upgrade take place then I would certainly be really to re-evaluate the daytime experience on an azuma
What I'm hearing is a small chorus of "it's affordable with a railcard!".
Which sums up UK rail pricing in general, IMHO
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or go via the WCML instead. Does require a change (there's no Chieftain a like) but only one, albeit crossing Glasgow.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Already long since mastered that particular technique
Although truth be told for Inverness at the moment I would fly if I wanted anywhere south of Newcastle or Carlisle
The new grand Union open access from sterling will be interesting particularly if at least some of them connect quite nicely out of a Highland service courtesy of ScotRail, only gamble there is the prospect of three hours on a 170 which I'd rather avoid but becomes more appealing in comparison to the idea of sitting on an ironing board
And admittedly whilst no environmentalist myself I do disapprove strongly of the idea of high speed full power diesel running under wires for several hundred miles unnecessarily
Anyhow drifting massively from topic here apologies
BRX
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I'd say it's more like "it's affordable if there are two people travelling together".
If you are travelling solo there's no doubt it's expensive.
However when there's two of you it can be reasonably affordable compared to the day train alternatives. If it's the day train alternatives you're comparing with, then the railcard isn't that relevant because it applies to either option.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Is it that expensive? It's about the same as a single on LNER and a Premier Inn, which is what it's aimed at.
If you book a Premier Inn you can have one or two (or sometimes three) people in the room, but you pay the same either way, because like CS the thing that's being sold is the room for you to occupy as you wish (up to the limits).
Fair point. The railcard policy on the sleeper is quite odd, why accept 16/25 but not 26/30 railcards? They directly lost a booking from my son a few days ago because of that. I guess not accepting the 2-together railcard (except in seats) is just fear of revenue abstraction? As the whole sleeper operation is massively subsidised, maybe the whole sleeper railcard policy needs looking at again.What I'm hearing is a small chorus of "it's affordable with a railcard!".
Which sums up UK rail pricing in general, IMHO
BRX
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Yes this is going to be a significant change to the options when travelling from Inverness or other Highland stations.
Would be nice to have a direct Inverness - WCML train back though.
Well, like all these questions related to the sleeper, it depends very much on individual circumstances. In my case if I'm travelling to Inverness I will be staying with family so hotel rooms don't become part of the equation.
The extra that you pay for the sleeper buys an additional day that isn't used up travelling. For me (travelling as a part of a pair) sometimes the sleeper fare can be got for £30-40 extra compared to day train, which can feel worth it. If I'm travelling solo, then the difference is more like £100.
(Actually, an additional attraction of the sleeper is their relatively flexible cancellation policy. If there's a decent far available 2 months out, I'll buy the ticket in the confidence that I can cancel it without penalty if plans change. The same is not true of an LNER or scotrail advance.)
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Garmoran
Member
I doubt if I would have room to assume that position in the toilet of the sleeper. They felt smaller than aircraft toilets.
For those of us who use the service from Fort William it can be cheaper than flying. Flying involves a minimum 2 hour drive to Glasgow, pay for parking, usually pay for hotel the previous night if you want to arrive in London with time to do anything with the day, then pay for transport into London. I can't remember the exact figures now but in January last year my wife and I took the sleeper to London but the return journey was cancelled due to industrial action. To get home I booked bus to Luton, Easyjet (+luggage surcharge) to Glasgow, then coach to FW and it worked out rather more than the cost of the cancelled sleeper journey (and took most of the day that would have been our last day in London).
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Regarding the fares, my feeling is they should have added a coach of some hostel style bunk beds in addition to the seats as part of the Public Service remit.
All the beds are sold out for tonight to Aberdeen, so there is clearly more demand than supply. Not good for a business traveller wanting to travel at the last minute.
All the beds are sold out for tonight to Aberdeen, so there is clearly more demand than supply. Not good for a business traveller wanting to travel at the last minute.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
It been discussed before. Cannot add any more coaches as train Euston to Scotland is maximum length (16 coaches). So need to find a big enough market to start a whole new train that will also require subsidy.
AberdeenBill
Member
I booked yesterday for a trip to Inverness in mid June. Price for 2 people sharing a room, one with senior railcard the other with no railcard as oddly they dont do a 26-30 railcard on CS was £435. So whilst the cost is less than double the single fare for 2 people, there should not be a misconception that you are only paying for the room like a Premier Inn i.e. same price whether one or two occupy. I know that there are certin additional costs with two such as remaking up 2 beds instead of 1 and the cost of an additional breakfast (not much) but it seems quite a premium for double occupancy
Kite159
Veteran Member
Easter Weekend getaway
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Happened to us a few years back, on the way to start the Great Glen Way. Had instead to fly to Glasgow, train to FW, and stay in a hotel, rather than just get off the train and start walking. Proved very expensive, as somewhere en route we contracted COVID (plane, airport bus, train, cafe at Crianlarich, hotel, who knows - but it wouldn't have happened if we had been in a sleeper compartment all the way instead).
Meant we spent four days and nights isolated in a hotel room in Drumnadrochit. And as well as the hotel bill, it cost more to rearrange our return home to a later date too.