Class 180 Adelantes leaving EMR

[James Kevill]

I have just heard from Modern Railways Magazine that the 4 Class 180 Adelantes will be leaving East Midlands Railway when they will be replace by Class 810 AT300 Aurora fleets to run on the Midland Mainline this year. There might be possible that they could be cascaded to Grand Central Railway to join the rest of the 10 units to run on the London Kings Cross to Sunderland and Bradford Interchange. But I'm concerned that the unit Class 180110 is still in 4 carriages and the buffet coach (56910) is still out of service and it's still in for repairs, but it is clearly unknown if it's repaired or not and Class 180110 would remain as 4 carriages for the rest of the day, week, month, year or permanently, but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[D365]

... but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Yes. No point in speculating now - the Class 810s are only just about to begin testing.

 

[James Kevill]

Yes. No point in speculating now - the Class 810s are only just about to begin testing.

Yes and that's a good point, they'll be ongoing testing first and then they'll enter the services soon after.

 

[swt_passenger]

I have just heard from Modern Railways Magazine that the 4 Class 180 Adelantes will be leaving East Midlands Railway when they will be replace by Class 810 AT300 Aurora fleets to run on the Midland Mainline this year...

The very latest Modern Railways, ie the Feb 23 edition, doesn’t actually say that. It says they will probably finish in May, before any 810s arrive, resulting in some rearrangement of, and short forming of, some current 222 services.

 

[Fastlane256]

I have just heard from Modern Railways Magazine that the 4 Class 180 Adelantes will be leaving East Midlands Railway when they will be replace by Class 810 AT300 Aurora fleets to run on the Midland Mainline this year.

I do wonder what the future holds for them, as their performance with fgw was bad and there doesn't really appear to be any improvements

 

[liamf656]

The very latest Modern Railways, ie the Feb 23 edition, doesn’t actually say that. It says they will probably finish in May, before any 810s arrive, resulting in some rearrangement of, and short forming of, some current 222 services.

Exactly this. It’s already being discussed (speculated) in the ongoing thread:

Rumours abound that we're stopping using ours at Emr in May due to there high maintenance cost. ....Make of that what you will.

 

[bengley]

They're being replaced in the more immediate future by ex-Avanti 221s

 

[liamf656]

They're being replaced in the more immediate future by ex-Avanti 221s

That isn’t confirmed as far as I’m aware, however the possibility was raised within EMR. Most likely solution is that funding wouldn’t be allowed and the immediate replacement would be short-formed 222s elsewhere.

To be honest if done well it wouldn’t make too much of a difference. For instance, the 06:35 SHF-STP is a double set but isn’t busy, the 17:32 STP-SHF is regularly short formed but isn’t too busy either. And the 10:02 STP-SHF (12:37 return) are both almost dead too.

 

[Mugby]

To be honest if done well it wouldn’t make too much of a difference. For instance, the 06:35 SHF-STP is a double set but isn’t busy, the 17:32 STP-SHF is regularly short formed but isn’t too busy either. And the 10:02 STP-SHF (12:37 return) are both almost dead too.

That certainly isn't the case on Saturdays though, I got the 1002 ex-STP at Derby last Saturday (21st) and it arrived with both sets very well loaded.

I notice on RTT that it was a single set yesterday (28th) and I wouldn't like to have been on it if the loading was same as last week!

 

[liamf656]

That certainly isn't the case on Saturdays though, I got the 1002 ex-STP at Derby last Saturday (21st) and it arrived with both sets very well loaded.

I notice on RTT that it was a single set yesterday (28th) and I wouldn't like to have been on it if the loading was same as last week!

Weekends are certainly a different kettle of fish. Most trains are definitely overcrowded like you say, especially the 5/7 car services. It’d be far from ideal to shorten a couple more however we live in hope that the 810s will alleviate some of that pressure as a whole

 

[dereksingh291]

When are the 180s leaving EMR but also when are the new 810s entering service and sorry to be slightly off topic but when are the 222s being replaced and what TOC will they be going to?

 

[MCR247]

Whilst more crowded trains isn’t ideal, one good thing about EMR is that they do seem willing to declassify the first class section in coach D which does help things somewhat.

The worst thing about the 180s going is that you can’t get a decent phone signal on the 222s and the wifi is awful

 

[D365]

… and sorry to be slightly off topic but when are the 222s being replaced and what TOC will they be going to?

Plenty of threads in the speculative discussions subforum to mull this one over

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Plenty of threads in the speculative discussions subforum to mull this one over

Aka, we don’t know yet sadly

 

[QSK19]

When are the 180s leaving EMR but also when are the new 810s entering service and sorry to be slightly off topic but when are the 222s being replaced and what TOC will they be going to?

Whilst others have addressed the 222 part (a simple search on RF will give you hours of reading!), 180s are believed to be leaving in May; and the 810s will be a long while yet - we’ve only just seen the first unit emerge from the factory. Last I read was 2024, but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s even 2025 - there is theoretically no rush to get them into service seeing as the 222s have no planned home post-EMR.

 

[WillPS]

Whilst others have addressed the 222 part (a simple search on RF will give you hours of reading!), 180s are believed to be leaving in May; and the 810s will be a long while yet - we’ve only just seen the first unit emerge from the factory. Last I read was 2024, but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s even 2025 - there is theoretically no rush to get them into service seeing as the 222s have no planned home post-EMR.

That could change without the slack which the 180s provide currently though...

 

[Wyrleybart]

That could change without the slack which the 180s provide currently though...


Not sure what context you mean. I believe it is just one day when three of the four 180s have worked for EMR, and AFAIK there hasn't been a day when all four have been in operation.

 

[QSK19]

That could change without the slack which the 180s provide currently though...

The DfT is demanding cuts across the board. Getting rid of the 180s is the easiest way for EMR to satisfy this.

Regardless of whether they provide slack or not, I’m afraid that the DfT is king these days - what they want, they get.

 

[507020]

With the rate at which things are currently changing, is there any chance that this will actually happen?

 

[WillPS]

That could change without the slack which the 180s provide currently though...


Not sure what context you mean. I believe it is just one day when three of the four 180s have worked for EMR, and AFAIK there hasn't been a day when all four have been in operation.

The presumption would be that removing the 180s would lead to a double whammy of the 222 fleet being used more intensively than now (tho maybe not if it'll just be doubled up services split?) and there will be less recovery options in the result of 222 failures.

That would lead to a situation where the 810s couldn't come soon enough...

 

[Kneedown]

That could change without the slack which the 180s provide currently though...


Not sure what context you mean. I believe it is just one day when three of the four 180s have worked for EMR, and AFAIK there hasn't been a day when all four have been in operation.

All four have never been diagrammed to be in service on the same day.

As regards leaving EMR in May, it's not 100% certain. The latest "rumour" is they are staying, but with no allocated diagrams, which would suggest to me they will be spare sets.
I think 221s will be a non starter. That would require a complete traction course for two whole links of Drivers. I'm not even sure if they are route cleared for the MML?

 

[baz962]

All four have never been diagrammed to be in service on the same day.

As regards leaving EMR in May, it's not 100% certain. The latest "rumour" is they are staying, but with no allocated diagrams, which would suggest to me they will be spare sets.
I think 221s will be a non starter. That would require a complete traction course for two whole links of Drivers. I'm not even sure if they are route cleared for the MML?

Some or all of the Manton/Melton Mowbray is getting axed . Would that free up units.

 

[cactustwirly]

Some or all of the Manton/Melton Mowbray is getting axed . Would that free up units.

I don't see that happening, it's a regular diversion route and the crew need to maintain that knowledge

 

[43055]

Some or all of the Manton/Melton Mowbray is getting axed . Would that free up units.

Probably only 1 unit as they all seem to join/split at London or Kettering for the Melton services.

 

[liamf656]

Some or all of the Manton/Melton Mowbray is getting axed . Would that free up units.

Is this confirmed?

 

[baz962]

Is this confirmed?

I have been told it's going in may. There might be a training train that won't stop at Oakham or Manton, twas a EMR Di told me.

 

[Russel]

Given how unreliable these units are, how many are usually in service at any one time?

I expect the answer to this question to be around 2 units, so although not ideal, is loosing them really going to have a noticeable impact?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Given how unreliable these units are, how many are usually in service at any one time?

I expect the answer to this question to be around 2 units, so although not ideal, is loosing them really going to have a noticeable impact?

Usually 2 diagrammed in the week. Sundays usually has 3 out (1 been a double set) although often only 2 are out, engineering work of course can affect services at weekend such as last Sunday. 180110 can be not fun at the weekend if out on its own!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

When are the 180s leaving EMR but also when are the new 810s entering service and sorry to be slightly off topic but when are the 222s being replaced and what TOC will they be going to?

I think the best answer there is that it doesn't work like that.
One step at a time...

 

[Wyrleybart]

All four have never been diagrammed to be in service on the same day.

No. They could never diagram for 100% availability, but were all four 180s be serviceable on a particular day, then maybe one could sub for a shortage of four or five car 222s on the day ?

As regards leaving EMR in May, it's not 100% certain. The latest "rumour" is they are staying, but with no allocated diagrams, which would suggest to me they will be spare sets.
I think 221s will be a non starter. That would require a complete traction course for two whole links of Drivers. I'm not even sure if they are route cleared for the MML?

I very much think the 221 option is a non starter. The costs would be incredible, both in terms of conversion, recommissioning and more than anything crew training. Far more economic to retain the 180s for another eighteen months in the hope that at least one of the four could cover for a 222. I am assuming the first 810s will be in traffic within 18 months.

What we don't know of course is whether DfT and Beacon have any plans to permanently mix the fleets. AIUI some of the ex AWC 221s were not intended to replace the XC HSTs for "another two years" when 221142/3 were handed back last Spring. We are nearly halfway through those two years now.