I’m not sure. Unpopular 3+2 seating, no air con/opening windows, muffled speaker with crappy TrainFX, lack of tables/armrests, etc. They’re like a faster accelerating, slightly cleaner and less dilapidated version of the 319 from a passenger perspective. Still much better than a nasty 319, but I’d rather a 331 any day of the week.
What you must remember is that the 319 was all that was available when Liverpool Lime street-Chat Moss and Wigan NW AC went live in 2015. Since then they have given sterling service. Now then they are being replaced on services out of Liverpool by the 331/1. The replacement 323s that have been operating on Chat Moss are too small and with only an hourly service which also serves Manchester Airport currently passengers are being left behind due to overcrowding. With the arrival of the 323s in 2024 Northern will hopefully re-instate the half hourly service
Yes, I’m not complaining at all, I just refuse to agree that the 323s are a massive upgrade (they are a bit of one) on 319s or an equivalent to 331s, but that’s individual tastes. I absolutely hate 319s, so this plan sounds great to me.
I am the opposite to you, A hater of 323s and a lover of 319s because they were different. I always associated 323s with South Manchester. However when they were transferred from Longsight to Allerton they started to spread their wings. They even for a period had an early morning LIV-WGN turn possible because they had a Liverpool crew. Only Piccadilly and Lime Street crews sign 323s so that will have to change.
Reported elsewhere as 319370 and 319361
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Confirmed and observed 37800 with 319370 behind locomotive and 319361 on the rear runningReported elsewhere as 319370 and 319361
CRealtime Trains | 5Q76 0758 Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 22/12/2023
Real-time train running information for 5Q76 0758 departure from Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 22/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Did you ever go on a 321 or 322? Pretty much the same travel environment as a 319.
Nope, just missed them when I got into trains on a bigger scale.
What about the interiors makes them "far superior?"
I think it may be a ballise to open the main circuit breakers before the train runs out of OLE
When the 319s started out of Liverpool they replaced mainly two car DMUs. I think the hourly service to Manchester Airport was booked three class 156s but 150s or Pacers were hardly rare. Objectively they provided more seats, slightly faster journeys, greater reliability (approx 10000 MTIN vs 5000-7000) and a quieter ride if you avoid the motor coach.
Are there any out and back diagrams from Allerton they could work tomorrow?
I dare say there are. But all but one of the 331/1s have now transferred over, and there'll no doubt be some pre-planned cancellations tomorrow, so will there be any need to put any 319s out? I highly doubt it.
This isn't adding up... 769s (converted 319s) will be the only Northern units to use the overheads (until Westhoughton is wired anyway) so it wouldn't make sense to send a 331 down there. If they're planning on giving back a direct train between the Preston-Bolton route and to Vic it's a decision I would support
I've also seen a few platforms being extended such as at Newton le Willows, I think they're also hoping to use 6 car 323s in the future unless they are completely unrelated and they're for the TPEs instead. Also what happened to that half hourly service? Splitting the via Airport service fair enough and now the intermediate stations get at least 2tph but the Liverpool - Stockport - Crewe service could've been left how it was
The thing with 323s is, while yes there's not much of a difference between the amount of seats it's the standing room that'll be reduced which as a personal opinion is more important. You say that 323s are warm in the winter, however being squashed into a 323 doorway during the summer will feel like hell on earth, especially if there's no air con like the 331s have. They could make the aisles 2+2 seating for more standing room, however it's Northern and they obviously won't do that.
Yes the extensions are for 323s, same is happening at Westhoughton, Hindley and Ince, the 323s don't have SDO, so they need a full platform.
I'm surprised they're not adding SDO to the 323s too, but also Ince seems like a tricky spot to do considering that it's an island platform. Unless the entire station gets rebuilt, which I can't see the DfT doing because they're far too cheap.
Do they? Never knew that
I didn't say they needed it. I said they could've added it because they want to run 6 carriages on the Chat Moss and Wigan-Bolton lines and they're extending platforms so if they added SDO it would've saved the DfT their precious money.
Ince has a big platform already, the end is just closed off and has been left to the plants, there's enough space in the plant area to get a long enough platform for 6 cars of 323.
Because 6 car sets don't fit in plenty of stations.
They get used on the Stoke line.
As in 6 car units? The point is 6 car 323s won't fit a lot of other stations and SDO would've been a lot better cost-wise than extending every single platform to fit it
Like I said cannot see them fitting SDO to them when they haven't got long left in service.
We don't know how long Northern want to keep them for
That's a fair point. Might have similar number of seats but the train is 10 metres shorter. So the passengers will inevitably be crammed into a smaller space.
