Class 365 - What if they werent scrapped?

[Ianno87]

Class 365s (and hypothesising on future use) is going to become the "new Class 442" on this forum aren't they...?

Generally people are more concerned about the price, reliability, speed and frequency of the train. Rolling stock will be an after thought and most won't think about it at all.

"Will it be a 365?" is an influencing factor on decision to travel to fewer people than I have fingers. Most actual passengers prefer the better tables, air conditioning and considerably lower interior noise (and general more modern feeling) on 387s compared to 365s.

 

[800001]

Hearing rumours from Multiple sources, that 365s are heading to LNER on a temp basis to run in pairs on Leeds/York to Kings Cross services.

 

[Journeyman]

Class 365s (and hypothesising on future use) is going to become the "new Class 442" on this forum aren't they...?

Hell, yeah!

"Will it be a 365?" is an influencing factor on decision to travel to fewer people than I have fingers. Most actual passengers prefer the better tables, air conditioning and considerably lower interior noise (and general more modern feeling) on 387s compared to 365s.

There's always spotters who will go out of their way to travel on a favourite class, but "normals" don't even think about this stuff. I recently enjoyed using the 365s during their time in Scotland, and picked them over other trains 'cos I had my spotter hat on, but the alternative 170s, 380s and 385s were all objectively better to travel on.

Hearing rumours from Multiple sources, that 365s are heading to LNER on a temp basis to run in pairs on Leeds/York to Kings Cross services.

Dream on!

 

[adamedwards]

Modern Railways reported a while back that fitting batteries to the 165s would give them the power to add an extra trailer car and these would come from the 365 or 465 trains, using centre cars and scrapping the driving vehicles. This would be a better match with vehicles of a similar age.

 

[800001]

Hell, yeah!

There's always spotters who will go out of their way to travel on a favourite class, but "normals" don't even think about this stuff. I recently enjoyed using the 365s during their time in Scotland, and picked them over other trains 'cos I had my spotter hat on, but the alternative 170s, 380s and 385s were all objectively better to travel on.


Dream on!

Dream on? OK. Further issues relating to 5 car azumas are the source of the rumours. And I know for fact they are further issues with 5 car sets which may require them to be withdrawn for rectification. The rumours are coming from internal railway staff, not end of platform spotters.

 

[Wolfie]

My mum is not a railway enthusiast, however, she knows the difference between a 455 and a 377 on her local line, she prefers 455s because of the opening windows.

Interesting and, no disrespect to your mum, l suspect abnormal.

 

[43096]

The rumours are coming from internal railway staff, not end of platform spotters.

It should be noted that there's even more rumours generated by railway messrooms than the fabled platform end version, and they are often equally accurate. Not always, but often.

 

[D365]

Class 365s (and hypothesising on future use) has long become the "new Class 442" on this forum aren't they...?

Fixed!

 

[Journeyman]

It should be noted that there's even more rumours generated by railway messrooms than the fabled platform end version, and they are often equally accurate. Not always, but often.

I'd be willing to put money on the 365s not working for LNER.

 

[liamf656]

The rumours are coming from internal railway staff, not end of platform spotters.

It depends which staff these rumours come from and where they got said rumours from because (and I can only speak for my colleagues), they can equal to platform end anyway, especially if it turns into Chinese whispers or if some staff members get their information from the platform end!

 

[Aictos]

Not only that, there's also a bit of a gap in the OHLE from Leeds to Edinburgh...

I think you mean Leeds to York as York to Edinburgh already has OHL although it does have power supply problems between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

That said, Network Rail are currently electrifying Leeds to York.

 

[Chiltern006]

Hearing rumours from Multiple sources, that 365s are heading to LNER on a temp basis to run in pairs on Leeds/York to Kings Cross services.

if this happens then I'll eat my own dirty socks from the floor of a tube train

although srsly, could the 365s be stripped for parts which match with the 465s?

 

[bramling]

Exactly - and your average punter won't make a particular note that a 365 is that different to a 321 or 350 or whatever else, providing the train turns up and they get a seat. If a 4 car turns up rammed to the rafters they would remember that though.

People on GN were known to attempt to commute on 365s as opposed to other stock though, notably 700s, but 317/321 too. It was quite common when timetables changed to find complaints on Twitter when someone’s regular service got changed from 365 to 317/321, with such changes on GN being quite common at times.

The 387s were reasonably popular but for the hard seats, and the reduced seating capacity compared to a 365. For this reason they were rather unpopular at mid-distance stations.

From May 18 it was quite common to see on local social media groups conversations asking which services were worked by “the comfy trains”. These local social media groups certainly aren’t geared round enthusiasts, so it’s a reasonable supposition that the vast majority of this discussion was being had by “normal users”.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

So in a world where you need trains to run at 125mph, there’s a supposition that you’d want, say, 12 units without lots of First Class and no kitchen? No chance...

 

[bramling]

So in a world where you need trains to run at 125mph, there’s a supposition that you’d want, say, 12 units without lots of First Class and no kitchen? No chance...

Let LNER have some 110 mph 387s, and we’ll gladly have the 365s back on GN. They could even take the Gatwick 387s which have the right colour scheme for LNER!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Let LNER have some 110 mph 387s, and we’ll gladly have the 365s back on GN. They could even take the Gatwick 387s which have the right colour scheme for LNER!

And still have no way of doing FC meals or having real FC seats!

 

[bramling]

And still have no way of doing FC meals or having real FC seats!

Antimacassar on the seat backs is good enough for GTR users, and IET first is hardly luxurious.

 

[Ianno87]

Let LNER have some 110 mph 387s, and we’ll gladly have the 365s back on GN. They could even take the Gatwick 387s which have the right colour scheme for LNER!

More complicated that is necessary, with GN crews having to re-learn 365s and LNER crews on 387s.

Rather than just getting one pot of LNER drivers trained on 365s and being done with it (assuming there is any truth in this rumour, of course).

 

[Wolfie]

Let LNER have some 110 mph 387s, and we’ll gladly have the 365s back on GN. They could even take the Gatwick 387s which have the right colour scheme for LNER!

The nearest that you will likely get to 365s going forward will be in a packet branded Gillette or Wilkinson Sword....

 

[Energy]

Dream on? OK. Further issues relating to 5 car azumas are the source of the rumours. And I know for fact they are further issues with 5 car sets which may require them to be withdrawn for rectification. The rumours are coming from internal railway staff, not end of platform spotters.

If I remember correctly the 365s have problems with signalling so are only cleared for a few routes, not including the ECML to Leads/York. Meanwhile I think there are some mk4s around...

 

[800001]

If I remember correctly the 365s have problems with signalling so are only cleared for a few routes, not including the ECML to Leads/York. Meanwhile I think there are some mk4s

Where are these mk4s you claim to be around?

Lner are getting another rake made up of coaches from 2 stored sets

 

[greyman42]

I think you mean Leeds to York as York to Edinburgh already has OHL although it does have power supply problems between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

That said, Network Rail are currently electrifying Leeds to York.

I am aware that they are currently electrifying York to Church Fenton but not beyond to Leeds.

 

[skyhigh]

I think you mean Leeds to York as York to Edinburgh already has OHL although it does have power supply problems between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

That said, Network Rail are currently electrifying Leeds to York.

The post I was commenting on stated (my bold):

I am sure that there are good reasons why it is not possible, but what about:

• A stopping service (more than the current long distance services) from Leeds or Newcastle to Edinburgh, perhaps replacing Cross Country.

NR are not electrifying Leeds to York. They are doing Colton Junction to Church Fenton. There will still be a significant gap from Church Fenton to Neville Hill that means it's not possible to run an EMU service from Leeds-York-Edinburgh.

 

[whoosh]

Class 365s (and hypothesising on future use) is going to become the "new Class 442" on this forum aren't they...?

Yes, they've had shoes in the past, who needs 442s now?!

If I remember correctly the 365s have problems with signalling so are only cleared for a few routes, not including the ECML to Leads/York. Meanwhile I think there are some mk4s around...

I'm sure 365s ran to Leeds in the aftermath of the Sandy derailment when Mk4s were all taken out of service. They were route cleared very quickly - in fact the whole operation of them being brought in to cover was done very quickly, almost like a joined up railway. This was a couple of years into privatisation.

I don't think anything will come of that LNER rumour, although I have heard it at work, and you never know - Scotrail got some all of a sudden a few years ago!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Yes, they've had shoes in the past, who needs 442s now?!



I'm sure 365s ran to Leeds in the aftermath of the Sandy derailment when Mk4s were all taken out of service. They were route cleared very quickly - in fact the whole operation of them being brought in to cover was done very quickly, almost like a joined up railway. This was a couple of years into privatisation.

I don't think anything will come of that LNER rumour, although I have heard it at work, and you never know - Scotrail got some all of a sudden a few years ago!

That was 317s and York wasn’t it?

 

[Neptune]

That was 317s and York wasn’t it?

Yes plus the a pair of 321/9’s worked some Leeds - London services.

 

[bramling]

More complicated that is necessary, with GN crews having to re-learn 365s and LNER crews on 387s.

Rather than just getting one pot of LNER drivers trained on 365s and being done with it (assuming there is any truth in this rumour, of course).

GN crews shouldn’t be having to do extensive retraining on 365s providing it doesn’t go over 6 months, though of course that threshold will be coming up fairly soon. Secondly there’s the 365’s route specific safety case when running under their own power, though of course they have been up the ECML before. Thirdly the 387s could potentially do 110mph which would be more suitable for LNER.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

GN crews shouldn’t be having to do extensive retraining on 365s providing it doesn’t go over 6 months, though of course that threshold will be coming up fairly soon. Secondly there’s the 365’s route specific safety case when running under their own power, though of course they have been up the ECML before. Thirdly the 387s could potentially do 110mph which would be more suitable for LNER.

Let’s not go there, we don’t need any chatter about 365s back on GN or 387s on LNER!

 

[2192]

Modern Railways reported a while back that fitting batteries to the 165s would give them the power to add an extra trailer car and these would come from the 365 or 465 trains, using centre cars and scrapping the driving vehicles. This would be a better match with vehicles of a similar age.

165's and 365's are identical apart from coach length and method of propulsion, so a good match. One 165 is having a battery and smaller diesel (electric) engine fitted as a test. If successful a two car 165 will become 3 car and 3 car 165's become 5 car, which will be welcomed if commuter numbers return.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I don’t see this idea kicking off, especially as it sounds like the 165s have quite little life left in them.