Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[janahan]

That's a load of hyperbole, there are much worse trains than a 455. The refurb was done to a high standard and aren't that much different to a 701 in reality. The seats are basically the same, you're just getting plug doors and aircon in a newer shell.

I agree the refurb was done to a high standard (especially considering the state they were in prior to the refurb), however, that was a) a long time ago and things have gotten worn, and b) they have become extremely tatty and worn in recent month, quite possibly due to limited remedial work as they are not going to be around for long.

Aircon is only relevant for a few months of the year, certainly not now when we're in winter.

AC is not JUST for keeping an area cool, modern climate controlled AC systems also help remove excess humidity, condensation, and dampness which is more important on a rainy muggy and even cold day. Most modern cars also provide climate controlled AC to prevent excess condensation on windows, and I use a portable dehumidifier (internally just a AC unit, that after cooling the air and extracting moisture, then reheats it from the heat previously removed) to avoid dampness and condensation at home especially during the cold months.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q50/51 701528/510

701010

Realtime Trains | 5Q09 0856 Worksop Down Yard to Wembley Inter City Depot | 07/02/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q09 0856 departure from Worksop Down Yard to Wembley Inter City Depot on 07/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

701003

Realtime Trains | 5Q11 1504 Wembley Inter City Depot to Eastleigh Trsmd | 07/02/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q11 1504 departure from Wembley Inter City Depot to Eastleigh Trsmd on 07/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Running late - diverted via Kenny O passed 1958 - Tooting 2027 - Wimbledon 2032

 

[DMckduck97]

A few weeks on now from the initial launch, the units themselves seem to be performing well - how close are we to having a proper all day diagram on the Windsor side?

They are performing well because they are not being put under the intense pressure of a daily diagram. Until it runs in peak time with a full loading and commuter pax blocking doors nobody knows how they will get on.

This current set up is performing well because if anything goes wrong they can be emptied and put in a siding with minimal disruption

 

[SWT_USER]

They are performing well because they are not being put under the intense pressure of a daily diagram. Until it runs in peak time with a full loading and commuter pax blocking doors nobody knows how they will get on.

This current set up is performing well because if anything goes wrong they can be emptied and put in a siding with minimal disruption

Yes, fine... Time to ramp it up then and find out.

 

[infobleep]

The majority of passengers don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of stopping points. Nobody is going to choose to travel in a more crowded part of the train just to save themselves a walk or two car lengths! What they will do is join the rear of the train because they can’t be bothered to walk up, or because they’re arriving at the last minute.

I use to go down to any part of a 455 on route to Wimbledon in the morning peak. That was until one day I missed my official connection as it took too long to get off the platform. After that I ensured I was always at rear, no matter how busy that carriage might be.

Yes I could claim delay repay due to my missed connection but I valued not missing it more as the next one was probably 30 minutes later!

If anyone else has any sense at Wimbledon in the peaks rush hour, they would do the same.

I've said for a number of years now a second footbridge is needed but unless people with the influence and power think it worthwhile, it won't happen, no matter what class of train is running.

I have not kept up with all of this thread but currently are there class 701 trains booked to stop at Wimbledon?

 

[Zeremony]

I have not kept up with all of this thread but currently are there class 701 trains booked to stop at Wimbledon?

No, only Monday - Friday between Waterloo & Windsor via Richmond.
1025 & 1253 from Waterloo, and 1130 & 1400 from Windsor

 

[norbitonflyer]

I use to go down to any part of a 455 on route to Wimbledon in the morning peak. That was until one day I missed my official connection as it took too long to get off the platform. After that I ensured I was always at rear, no matter how busy that carriage might be.

Yes I could claim delay repay due to my missed connection but I valued not missing it more as the next one was probably 30 minutes later!

If anyone else has any sense at Wimbledon in the peaks rush hour, they would do the same.

I've said for a number of years now a second footbridge is needed but unless people with the influence and power think it worthwhile, it won't happen, no matter what class of train is running.

Exactly why I did the same. The choice between a rammed 455 to Waterloo and a walk, or a seat to Blackfriars and a much shorter walk would have been a fairly easy one, had Thameslink been at all reliable.

Having the Revenue Men doing checks at the top of the stairs was an accident waiting to happen, as people at the bottom wouldn't know why no-one on the stairs was moving, and a second train would come in before people from the first had cleared. But then, making sure people have paid for the service was always a higher priority than ensi[uring people got the service they'd paid for.

And good luck claiming Delay Repay when the only reason you missed your connection was congestion on the footbridge.

 

[43066]

If by "correct" you mean "prescribed" But that assumes the person doing the prescribing had any thought for the passengers convenience.

I mean correct. The person doing the prescribing will have considered both passenger convenience and safety (and other relevant factors), and clearly the decision taken here favoured removing 8 car boards. I realise your stance is to reject any railway decision you disagree with personally as unimpeachably wrong, so I doubt your view on the matter will change. However that is, in fact, how these decisions are taken.

Indeed, tghere is a passenger safety issue as all passengers have to pass along a narrow platform next to a drop onto the track (where the rear two cars of the train should be)

I’m afraid this statement again highlights how little you understand about the risks you’re talking about. A section of crowded narrow platform with a train departing from it is more dangerous than a section without - in fact passenger-train-interface is a huge issue on the railway on which vast amounts are spent to alleviate the risks - hence the concerns around the dispatch process on the 701s.

I use to go down to any part of a 455 on route to Wimbledon in the morning peak. That was until one day I missed my official connection as it took too long to get off the platform. After that I ensured I was always at rear, no matter how busy that carriage might be.

Yes I could claim delay repay due to my missed connection but I valued not missing it more as the next one was probably 30 minutes later!

If anyone else has any sense at Wimbledon in the peaks rush hour, they would do the same.

I've said for a number of years now a second footbridge is needed but unless people with the influence and power think it worthwhile, it won't happen, no matter what class of train is running.

Hopefully the new fleet will reduce these issues being fully walk through (albeit, as noted above, it can’t be guaranteed!). I can’t say I recognise the complaints about Waterloo from my period commuting in and out from Epsom.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hopefully the new fleet will reduce these issues being fully walk through (albeit, as noted above, it can’t be guaranteed!). I can’t say I recognise the complaints about Waterloo from my period commuting in and out from Epsom.

Minus the /5s of course, but hopefully not much of an issue.

 

[43066]

Minus the /5s of course, but hopefully not much of an issue.

Yes fair point, thanks. Albeit the absence of connecting doors between the vehicles still puts them ahead of the 455s, I guess, as people will be more inclined to spread throughout each unit.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've said for a number of years now a second footbridge is needed but unless people with the influence and power think it worthwhile, it won't happen, no matter what class of train is running.

A second interchange footbridge at Wimbledon made it as far as the 2015 Wessex route strategy document, it was discussed in the same context as Clapham Junction, Surbiton and Vauxhall, which have all had some work done.

I have not kept up with all of this thread but currently are there class 701 trains booked to stop at Wimbledon?

There have only been the 2 return Windsor services mentioned in this thread so far.

 

[norbitonflyer]

A section of crowded narrow platform with a train departing from it is more dangerous than a section without

Quite so - and that is exactly what you have when the rear two cars are adjacent the narowest part of the platform and everyone has to negoitate it to reach the more spacious area near the stairs.

I can’t say I recognise the complaints about Waterloo from my period commuting in and out from Epsom.

Clearly Epsom line trains do not have the same problems as Kingston line trains. Maybe you should come to Kingston and familiarise yourself with the issues.

But then, SWR and now SWT have always favoured the lines where they have competition (Hounslow Loop v Piccadilly Line, and Epsom v Southern). When your market share is guaranteed to be 100%, why bother trying?

 

[infobleep]

Hopefully the new fleet will reduce these issues being fully walk through (albeit, as noted above, it can’t be guaranteed!). I can’t say I recognise the complaints about Waterloo from my period commuting in and out from Epsom.

Were you referring to a different post regarding Waterloo? My comment was only on Wimbledon.

The fully walkable trains of yhe class 701 will definitely be good. I am the sort of person, who will join a train at the back, if it is about to leave and then walk towards the front to get a seat, even if it's very busy because often I will get a seat.

 

[43066]

Quite so - and that is exactly what you have when the rear two cars are adjacent the narowest part of the platform and everyone has to negoitate it to reach the more spacious area near the stairs.

But earlier you complained specifically about the stop car mark arrangements creating a passenger safety issue stemming from passengers walking along “next to a drop onto the track (where the rear cars of the train should be).”

In fact platform with no departing train next to it is safer! There’s nothing to be gained from discussing this point further, so suggest agreement to disagree.

Clearly Epsom line trains do not have the same problems as Kingston line trains. Maybe you should come to Kingston and familiarise yourself with the issues.

I was referring to your complaints about Waterloo, which are not something I’ve particularly noticed whenever using the station.

Incidentally at Epsom there was a similar problematic layout with the station exit being at the same end of the train as the Waterloo buffer-stops. In the evenings I never found it a major issue simply to travel in the country end of the train, even if that meant a longer walk at Waterloo, and then a few minutes extra to negotiate the exit queue at Epsom (vice versa in the mornings of course). This was also in the era before oyster and contactless had reached Epsom (circa. 2013/14), and with a much more clearly defined AM/PM peak than now!

As noted, hopefully the new fleet will make a difference albeit clearly, of themselves, the 701s won’t improve poor station layouts.

But then, SWR and now SWT have always favoured the lines where they have competition (Hounslow Loop v Piccadilly Line, and Epsom v Southern). When your market share is guaranteed to be 100%, why bother trying?

I’m not sure this thread is the place for (yet another) generalised moan about SWR.

Were you referring to a different post regarding Waterloo? My comment was only on Wimbledon.

Apologies yes - see above! Wimbledon certainly isn’t great based on every time I’ve used it (albeit nowhere near as many times as Epsom or Waterloo).

The fully walkable trains of yhe class 701 will definitely be good. I am the sort of person, who will join a train at the back, if it is about to leave and then walk towards the front to get a seat, even if it's very busy because often I will get a seat.

Agreed, same here. It’s bizarre how it can make such a huge difference to comfort, yet so many don’t bother!

 

[TEW]

But then, SWR and now SWT have always favoured the lines where they have competition (Hounslow Loop v Piccadilly Line, and Epsom v Southern). When your market share is guaranteed to be 100%, why bother trying?

A comparison between the current and pre-Covid timetables on those lines somewhat disproves that. Kingston has a few peak trains missing. The Hounslow Loop has half its off peak service missing and Epsom half its off peak and just under half its peak service missing.

 

[norbitonflyer]

A comparison between the current and pre-Covid timetables on those lines somewhat disproves that. Kingston has a few peak trains missing. The Hounslow Loop has half its off peak service missing and Epsom half its off peak and just under half its peak service missing.

I am a bit out of date then, but pre-Covid the favouritism was evident, when the service on the Hounslow line was doubled and rezoning of stations on the Epsom line gave cheaper fares, whilst the Kingston Loop anomalies were never addressed.

 

[infobleep]

Agreed, same here. It’s bizarre how it can make such a huge difference to comfort, yet so many don’t bother!

It will be interesting to see if people walk through the 701s to the front once they are running with a crowded train, most likely during the peaks.

 

[boiledbeans2]

And at Waterloo everyone arrives at the last minute because platforms are announced so late - indeed, at the worst possible moment, just as the train is pulling in - so by the time you've foughht your way against the tide of incoming passengers there isn't time to get to the front of the train anyway.

The "smart" way is to wait in the underpass which connects to LU. Indeed, in the peak hours, you will see hordes of commuters waiting in the underpass watching the screens.

 

[Bumpkin]

I am a bit out of date then, but pre-Covid the favouritism was evident, when the service on the Hounslow line was doubled and rezoning of stations on the Epsom line gave cheaper fares, whilst the Kingston Loop anomalies were never addressed.

Would these not have been decided by TfL not SWT/R considering they are the ones who set the fares within the zones?

 

[Zeremony]

Would these not have been decided by TfL not SWT/R considering they are the ones who set the fares within the zones?

AFAIK TfL and the TOCs have an agreement on the sharing of fares and they both have to agree before changes

 

[Goldfish62]

But then, SWR and now SWT have always favoured the lines where they have competition (Hounslow Loop v Piccadilly Line,

Except that TfL part-funded the frequency increase on the Hounslow loop introduced way back in 2004 (and paid for the PIS on the refurbished 455s which wasn't originally scoped by SWT).

 

[DMckduck97]

I am a bit out of date then, but pre-Covid the favouritism was evident, when the service on the Hounslow line was doubled and rezoning of stations on the Epsom line gave cheaper fares, whilst the Kingston Loop anomalies were never addressed.

Never quite sure why the hounslow loop is favoured so much, would love to know how big the revenue black hole is between barnes and Hounslow.

 

[D1511]

Saw this one today at Bletchley behind 69008
One was 701010 but not sure of the other, but I'm sure someone on here will know.
Doors still had the blue seals over them.

 

[Peter Sarf]

@D1511. Don't worry, probably 701010 on its own. It is one ten car unit, as in very long !.

.........................

701010

Realtime Trains | 5Q09 0856 Worksop Down Yard to Wembley Inter City Depot | 07/02/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q09 0856 departure from Worksop Down Yard to Wembley Inter City Depot on 07/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

........................

Was reported up thread as on its own. I am prepared to believe it as quite likely for ten cars.

 

[D1511]

@D1511. The unit 701010 is one ten car unit. As in very long !.

Was reported up thread as on its own. I am prepared to believe it as quite likely for ten cars.

Ah right....I didn't bother walking along the platform and I also didn't realise they were so long! .

 

[D365]

Good to see an autocoupler 69 in service.

 

[Disco Bat]

I’ve noticed a lot more RO2s (dispatchers) actively involved in dispatching trains at a lot of suburban stations recently. Places I hadn’t seen (or perhaps just noticed) them before. Over the last year I was surprised to see them at places like QTR and Mortlake and the other day for the first time I saw a train being dispatched with an RO2 at Kingston. These seem to be during the peaks and only in the peak direction. Posts on this thread seem to suggest that apart from a few exceptions the dispatch process on the 701s will be the responsibility of the driver (not saying anything about where the guards come into it as that doesn’t seem to be agreed on here or by the company). Does this growth in the use of RO2s suggest they will be playing a greater roll in 701 dispatch or is unrelated? If it is unrelated does anyone know why they’ve been used more in dispatch in the last few years assuming drivers will assume full responsibility for dispatch in most cases?

 

[SWT_USER]

Except that TfL part-funded the frequency increase on the Hounslow loop introduced way back in 2004 (and paid for the PIS on the refurbished 455s which wasn't originally scoped by SWT).

4TPH was part funded by GSK moving their HQ to Brentford I think?

As we can see from this thread, the grass is always greener.. I think the Hounslow loop gets a raw deal. Service basically cut in half since pre COVID and all the fast peak extras and late night services are gone too. The timetable is worse now than it was in 2004 but of course the fares are significantly higher.

Further up the Windsor side Ashford and Staines are still without contactless payments despite the fare rises and being a similar distance to London as Epsom is.

The only reason the Windsor side is getting the 701's first is operational convenience for SWR. Even that is a struggle for them as the past four years have proved. And there is still no sign of a proper all day diagram that would actually be of any use to commuters.

 

[pompeyfan]

Personally I think it’s sensible to allow crew to get accustomed to them in the off peak, last thing you want is significant dwell times during the peaks as cautious crew are hesitant to drive as they used to, plus you’ve got to get familiar with DOO working which is probably completely different to how it works in the sims.

 

[PhilipRdNGauge]

Saw this one today at Bletchley behind 69008
One was 701010 but not sure of the other, but I'm sure someone on here will know.
Doors still had the blue seals over them.

View attachment 151835
View attachment 151836

I see that the autocoupler is sort of dipped on the front of the locomotive, does this allow the use of the traditional hook & bar when it's hauling regular freight wagons or is 69008 confined to hauling dead 701s in it's current configuration.