Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like the ORR approved 9 car running in November: https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...ation-orr-authorisation-letter-2022-11-18.pdf

Of note is that there are now 9 car stop signs on the south WCML (no, not for Pendolinos, they're quite new, installed alongside 5 and 10 signs), so I guess the intention must be at least some 9s!

 

[AJDesiro]

Looks like the ORR approved 9 car running in November: https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...ation-orr-authorisation-letter-2022-11-18.pdf

That’s promising then. Word on the street is that LNR want rid of the 319s and even 350/2s ASAP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s promising then. Word on the street is that LNR want rid of the 319s and even 350/2s ASAP.

Network Rail are doing some work on Bletchley CS (related, I think, to EWR, though I may recall wrongly) that will reduce their stabling capacity there, resulting in a few short-forms of trains that start/terminate there. It came out as an email the other week.

 

[Silverlinky]

There is no diagrammed 9 car 730 work for the current timetable, just as there was no diagrammed 12 car 319 work for this timetable. Not to say it wouldn't happen, but if it did as a result of ad-hoc strengthening for example the infrastructure is in place.

Bletchley TMD is undergoing some work in connection with EWR, and all stock in the TMD is being moved out next week, 730 units will be stabled in the CS from Monday I believe. The 230 stock has been moved to the fuel road to be accessible for imminent removal of the units by road.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is no diagrammed 9 car 730 work for the current timetable, just as there was no diagrammed 12 car 319 work for this timetable. Not to say it wouldn't happen, but if it did as a result of ad-hoc strengthening for example the infrastructure is in place.

Thanks. Does that mean that the present 8.319 diagrams will become 6.730 in due course? That'll be cosy!

 

[Class15]

There is no diagrammed 9 car 730 work for the current timetable, just as there was no diagrammed 12 car 319 work for this timetable. Not to say it wouldn't happen, but if it did as a result of ad-hoc strengthening for example the infrastructure is in place.

Bletchley TMD is undergoing some work in connection with EWR, and all stock in the TMD is being moved out next week, 730 units will be stabled in the CS from Monday I believe. The 230 stock has been moved to the fuel road to be accessible for imminent removal of the units by road.

Right, time to try and get 350s for a change!

Thanks. Does that mean that the present 8.319 diagrams will become 6.730 in due course? That'll be cosy!

Indeed! I’ll love it!

 

[3973EXL]

5Q65 1004 Derby Lit Lane - Oxley
37611 730039

 

[AJDesiro]

5Q65 1004 Derby Lit Lane - Oxley
37611 730039

They're really starting to churn them out now!

 

[childwallblues]

5Q65 1004 Derby Lit Lane - Oxley
37611 730039

730039? I did not realise that there was going to be that many. My book shows only up to 730036.

 

[Foxxle]

Just seen 730008 + 2 others in the sidings outside Euston, Camden CS I think it is? Next to loads of Class 378s


011, 014, 015, 017, and 018 are all sitting in sidings between Bletchley and Milton Keynes too.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Just seen 730008 + 2 others in the sidings outside Euston, Camden CS I think it is? Next to loads of Class 378s

Yes, there is 730 008, 009 and 012 there currently

 

[59CosG95]

730039? I did not realise that there was going to be that many. My book shows only up to 730036.

The original order was indeed for 36 3-car units, but it was also for 45 5-car units (a total of 333 vehicles); this has now been amended to 48 3-car units and 36 5-car units (a total of 324 vehicles).

 

[Wyrleybart]

The original order was indeed for 36 3-car units, but it was also for 45 5-car units (a total of 333 vehicles); this has now been amended to 48 3-car units and 36 5-car units (a total of 324 vehicles).

That is how I understand it, but confusion over the 5 cars. I am sure I read somewhere that class 730/2 has been dropped and all 5 car units will be 730/1s. So where does that fit with the plan to split WMR and LNR, which I believe the designations were to distinguish. Presumably as the 730/1s are being turned out in green they will be for LNR and all the 3 car 730/0s will be WMR

 

[childwallblues]

What was the difference between 730/1 and 730/2?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What was the difference between 730/1 and 730/2?

Pretty much same as 350/1 and 350/2.

 

[Wyrleybart]

What was the difference between 730/1 and 730/2?

Apart from the livery, as far as I know nothing. They were both going to be 5 car 110mph EMUs but some with WMR and some with LNR, as was the intention when they were ordered.

But things change where government departments are involved !!

 

[43096]

Apart from the livery, as far as I know nothing. They were both going to be 5 car 110mph EMUs but some with WMR and some with LNR, as was the intention when they were ordered.

But things change where government departments are involved !!

The difference was seat layout. 2+2 on one type and 2+3 on the other. All were for LNR.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Apart from the livery, as far as I know nothing. They were both going to be 5 car 110mph EMUs but some with WMR and some with LNR, as was the intention when they were ordered.

But things change where government departments are involved !!

And the change from 3+2 to 2+2 seating. As can be seen on the 2 5car LNR liveried units at Crewe

 

[AJDesiro]

Apart from the livery, as far as I know nothing. They were both going to be 5 car 110mph EMUs but some with WMR and some with LNR, as was the intention when they were ordered.

But things change where government departments are involved !!

I thought both /1 and /2 were going to be LNR branded, with the /1s having an interior similar to the 720s except with first class, with the /2s having a regional interior, with 2+2 seating, tables, armrests, and first class. Of course all LNR units are planned to be 2+2 now, and hopefully it stays that way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought both /1 and /2 were going to be LNR branded, with the /1s having an interior similar to the 720s except with first class, with the /2s having a regional interior, with 2+2 seating, tables, armrests, and first class. Of course all LNR units are planned to be 2+2 now, and hopefully it stays that way.

That was the original plan, and would have seen more 350s in the West Midlands than the revised plan (as it's been found that 8.350 is a sweet spot for a lot of south WCML services post COVID). The increased /0 order means hardly any 350s if any at all will work WMR services.

I believe the plan to split the two TOCs (other than in branding terms) has gone away, though.

 

[AJDesiro]

That was the original plan, and would have seen more 350s in the West Midlands than the revised plan (as it's been found that 8.350 is a sweet spot for a lot of south WCML services post COVID). The increased /0 order means hardly any 350s if any at all will work WMR services.

I believe the plan to split the two TOCs (other than in branding terms) has gone away, though.

The current plan is probably best for brand identity, it’s certainly odd seeing every WMR electric service aside from the cross city run by 350s. I just hope that if the 730/2s (or whatever they’re going with for the subclass) are still running Trent Valley services as they’ve been planned to as of late, that they are run as 10 car, and not 5, 8.350 isn’t enough on the Trent Valley anymore, considering the amount of people changing at rugby from an LNR from Birmingham, onto the Trent Valley service to London in order to save a large amount of time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The current plan is probably best for brand identity, it’s certainly odd seeing every WMR electric service aside from the cross city run by 350s. I just hope that if the 730/2s (or whatever they’re going with for the subclass) are still running Trent Valley services as they’ve been planned to as of late, that they are run as 10 car, and not 5, 8.350 isn’t enough on the Trent Valley anymore, considering the amount of people changing at rugby from an LNR from Birmingham, onto the Trent Valley service to London in order to save a large amount of time.

I would hope so too. The idea of the 730s being on Tring/MKC stoppers also makes some sense because these are much quieter off peak, with far less leisure travel, so 5 off peak (other than the vomit comets) will probably work fairly well.

The awkward one is Liverpool to Brum, for which 2tph at 5 car would work, but 1tph at 5 car won't and 10 may be overkill, so it'll be interesting to see which way this ends up going.

 

[AJDesiro]

I would hope so too. The idea of the 730s being on Tring/MKC stoppers also makes some sense because these are much quieter off peak, with far less leisure travel, so 5 off peak (other than the vomit comets) will probably work fairly well.

The awkward one is Liverpool to Brum, for which 2tph at 5 car would work, but 1tph at 5 car won't and 10 may be overkill, so it'll be interesting to see which way this ends up going.

I traveled on a Liverpool to Brum service today at around 3 pm, it seemed to be ok with 8.350, but I have been on some very busy Liverpool services in the past too. I do wonder whether 730s will run Liverpool's, considering that most LNR routes through Birmingham will remain 350s, it just seems peculiar that these would be run as 730s, perhaps it would be beneficial at peak times? If 2tph didn't seem to be a dead plan, a single 5-car every 30 minutes could work, there are enough LNR units to run the service.

If they are to be used on Euston-Tring/MKC, Euston-Crewe, and Euston-Liverpool, and if every service operated as 10.730, that would be 26/36 units in use each day, if my calculation of the number of diagrams is correct. I'm not that well educated on how much money there is to be saved by coupling and uncoupling to meet demand throughout the day, part of me thinks that it may just be easier to keep them coupled throughout the day, as is done with 8.350s currently.

I do wonder what the future of the 350 operated services will be like in terms of unit formations though, as it seems that there will be many more 350s out of use each day, considering Euston-Birmingham requires 22 units currently (11 8-car diagrams), with the Abbey Line requiring one, and Birmingham-Crewe requiring around 3 or 4 (though I'm unsure as to whether this will be run by 730/0s in the future, as it is displayed as a WMR service on the PIS, but is also branded as an LNR service on route maps), meaning only around 27/50 units would be in use each day, could we perhaps see the bolstering of some services to 8/12 car? Euston-Birmingham is healthily loaded, and less frequent than prior to COVID, though I understand that there are very few stations north of Northampton that could actually handle 12 carriages (Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street are the only stations if my memory serves me correctly, leaving Long Buckby, Canley, Tile Hill, Berkswell, Hampton-in-Arden and Marston Green, the latter only gets a Euston-Birmingham service on Sundays at 1tph). I wouldn't be surprised if the DfT didn't allow this though.

 

[Dave91131]

I noticed what I think was 730034 in the yard at Wembley earlier today, amongst the lines of Renatus 321's. Can anyone advise if any other 730's are there with it please?

008 / 009 / 012 still stabled at Camden too.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I traveled on a Liverpool to Brum service today at around 3 pm, it seemed to be ok with 8.350, but I have been on some very busy Liverpool services in the past too. I do wonder whether 730s will run Liverpool's, considering that most LNR routes through Birmingham will remain 350s, it just seems peculiar that these would be run as 730s, perhaps it would be beneficial at peak times? If 2tph didn't seem to be a dead plan, a single 5-car every 30 minutes could work, there are enough LNR units to run the service.

If they are to be used on Euston-Tring/MKC, Euston-Crewe, and Euston-Liverpool, and if every service operated as 10.730, that would be 26/36 units in use each day, if my calculation of the number of diagrams is correct. I'm not that well educated on how much money there is to be saved by coupling and uncoupling to meet demand throughout the day, part of me thinks that it may just be easier to keep them coupled throughout the day, as is done with 8.350s currently.

I do wonder what the future of the 350 operated services will be like in terms of unit formations though, as it seems that there will be many more 350s out of use each day, considering Euston-Birmingham requires 22 units currently (11 8-car diagrams), with the Abbey Line requiring one, and Birmingham-Crewe requiring around 3 or 4 (though I'm unsure as to whether this will be run by 730/0s in the future, as it is displayed as a WMR service on the PIS, but is also branded as an LNR service on route maps), meaning only around 27/50 units would be in use each day, could we perhaps see the bolstering of some services to 8/12 car? Euston-Birmingham is healthily loaded, and less frequent than prior to COVID, though I understand that there are very few stations north of Northampton that could actually handle 12 carriages (Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street are the only stations if my memory serves me correctly, leaving Long Buckby, Canley, Tile Hill, Berkswell, Hampton-in-Arden and Marston Green, the latter only gets a Euston-Birmingham service on Sundays at 1tph). I wouldn't be surprised if the DfT didn't allow this though.

Would the fact that 730s are 23m bodyshells whereas 350s are 20m length, mean more room ? Theoretically a 730.5 is 115m whereas a 4.350 is 80m

 

[AJDesiro]

Would the fact that 730s are 23m bodyshells whereas 350s are 20m length, mean more room ? Theoretically a 730.5 is 115m whereas a 4.350 is 80m

It would do, yes, a 10 car 730 is the equivalent of a 12 car 350, with the 730s having 24m carriages, though it would be very foolish to run single 5 cars on many of the routes that the LNR units are planned to run, considering 5.730 is the same as 6.350.

It will be interesting to see how certain services, like the Chase Line, will react to having 3 car 730s when they previously had 4 car 350s too.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It would do, yes, a 10 car 730 is the equivalent of a 12 car 350, with the 730s having 24m carriages, though it would be very foolish to run single 5 cars on many of the routes that the LNR units are planned to run, considering 5.730 is the same as 6.350.

At least short forms will mean a 6*350 compared to a 4*350.

 

[childwallblues]

Liverpool to Birmingham is currently hourly 8 car but used to be half hourly 4 car. 8 cars do not fit on to the platforms at Smethwick Galton Bridge, Penkridge, Winsford, Acton Bridge and Liverpool South Parkway. The current service leaves Liverpool at xx33 and reaches Crewe at xx15 so missing the connections to Derby/Nottingham, South Wales and the Trent Valley.
Reverting to a half hourly service using 5 car 730s would mean that passengers would not be sitting around Crewe were the waiting facilities are very poor in quality.

 

[VicH]

I noticed what I think was 730034 in the yard at Wembley earlier today, amongst the lines of Renatus 321's. Can anyone advise if any other 730's are there with it please?

008 / 009 / 012 still stabled at Camden too.

I believe 024 is there.

I noticed one at the south end where the loco's stable, was that 034?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Could we perhaps see the bolstering of some services to 8/12 car? Euston-Birmingham is healthily loaded, and less frequent than prior to COVID, though I understand that there are very few stations north of Northampton that could actually handle 12 carriages.

12 car 350 is due for its 2nd test run on Trent Valley services, with the plan to introduce it as a way to improve capacity on weekends. Staff are very reluctant to accept 12 car north of Rugby but it has been proven that UDS from 12-4 does work so it will become an option for planners.

This hasn't been tested on RUG-BHM yet as far as I'm aware.