Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[dk1]

which train

06:48/09:00 usual culprits to knock on the head. Next working 1P33 at 11:30.

Update - Still no replacement 745 so 755 standing in to Colchester.

 

[Bikeman78]

Extra diagram going well, today joins yesterday in not enough 745s available...

Seriously, they can't cover 13 diagrams from 20 units? Time to put a pair of 317s on the Stansted Express to free one up

 

[Railperf]

Seriously, they can't cover 13 diagrams from 20 units? Time to put a pair of 317s on the Stansted Express to free one up

It was not uncommon to see a pair of 317's on Stansted's back in the day when 379's were supposed to be dedicated to that service. Mind you i was always happier to see a 379 on the Cambridge run than the 317's as they are much cleaner and comfier.

 

[dk1]

Seriously, they can't cover 13 diagrams from 20 units? Time to put a pair of 317s on the Stansted Express to free one up

I heard today from somebody drafted over that there is 4-6 weeks work to do on the 745s but don’t shoot the messenger.

 

[Class 170101]

Then introduce a facility for users to enter origin and destination points and simply generate a customised PDF. When travelling it is far easier to consult a piece of paper than faff about on the tippy tappy prone to failure because of connectivity or battery issues.

This link

Journey Planning

Live Train Times

www.greateranglia.co.uk

diverts to here

Your Pocket Timetables - National Rail Enquiries

Create your own personalised printable PDF timetable. Up to 3 separate departure or arrival stations, selected days, dates and travel times to suite - and more

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Grumbler]

This link

Journey Planning

Live Train Times

www.greateranglia.co.uk

diverts to here

Your Pocket Timetables - National Rail Enquiries

Create your own personalised printable PDF timetable. Up to 3 separate departure or arrival stations, selected days, dates and travel times to suite - and more

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

The GA Journey Planner is not much use for printing - the PDF is 7 pages long just to show only 4 services and is illegible.
I was not aware of the NRE website, it looks a lot better, although still rather wasteful of paper. But thanks for the link!

 

[Peter Sarf]

The GA Journey Planner is not much use for printing - the PDF is 7 pages long just to show only 4 services and is illegible.
I was not aware of the NRE website, it looks a lot better, although still rather wasteful of paper. But thanks for the link!

Oh gosh I know the feeling. I have come across that sort of wonderful use of IT before. For that level of tree murdering it would be easier to get an old envelope and write down the wretched four services !. Then inevitably scribble timetable changes next to them !.

 

[Grumbler]

Oh gosh I know the feeling. I have come across that sort of wonderful use of IT before. For that level of tree murdering it would be easier to get an old envelope and write down the wretched four services !. Then inevitably scribble timetable changes next to them !.

I wanted to request a complete day, but the system doesn't allow that for some strange reason.

 

[AverageTD]

I heard today from somebody drafted over that there is 4-6 weeks work to do on the 745s but don’t shoot the messenger.

Work, to do what exactly?

 

[dk1]

Work, to do what exactly?

Who knows? Probably software.

 

[James James]

Not unless it was very long term through accident damage for instance. I would imagine it’s a very complex thing to do not least on the software side of things.

They're able to do it quite easily with Stadler units on the continent: the Zentralbahn mix half-Adlers with a Fink when needed (e.g. due to rocks falling on one half of the Adler), which has a similar concept of half-trains (plus a restaurant in the middle). Word on the street is that the Traverso's (which are more closely related to 745's - and also have the power cable on top) can do the same - after all they are constructed and numbered as 2 separate trains.

So I suspect it's not actually that hard. But likely only the manufacturer can tell us with any certainty.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I've written notes on the class 720 and 755 threads about conversations I had with Greater Anglia staff earlier this week in which I was told that the Stansted Express trains are going to be "upgraded" and have first class and catering facilities added so that there is a single, common, fleet of 745s and that they will not operate between Liverpool Street and Stansted Airport; some 720s will be delivered "with tables" to form a sub-fleet for Stansted Express services.

The conversations were at different times and there was a commonality in that both just described the change to the 720s as being the addition of tables - no mention of seating being changed to 2+2 - and the information was given as fact rather than rumour; moreover, the content of one conversation included extra information given in such a way that it could have come from some sort of staff briefing

 

[trebor79]

Not sure why they'd put tables in the 720s when there are none in the 745/1s. Puzzling.

What are the funny little indicators at the ends of the coaches on the 745s and 755s? They seem to be some kind of mechanically linked indicator, they are usually red when the train is stopped, but move to green as it moves off. I guess they are some kind of maintenance aid for setting the suspension up?

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Seems utterly ridiculous that this could happen, why on earth go to the effort of building a sub fleet, all the infrastructure clearance etc and training to then decide 2 years in maybe move them somewhere else. Anyone with half a brain could have foreseen this happening, what a pointless exercise.

 

[TheManWho]

Not sure why they'd put tables in the 720s when there are none in the 745/1s. Puzzling.

What are the funny little indicators at the ends of the coaches on the 745s and 755s? They seem to be some kind of mechanically linked indicator, they are usually red when the train is stopped, but move to green as it moves off. I guess they are some kind of maintenance aid for setting the suspension up?

They're probably brake indicators- red for brakes on, green for brakes off

 

[Shunter_69]

They're probably brake indicators- red for brakes on, green for brakes off

That is exactly what they are.

 

[AverageTD]

I've written notes on the class 720 and 755 threads about conversations I had with Greater Anglia staff earlier this week in which I was told that the Stansted Express trains are going to be "upgraded" and have first class and catering facilities added so that there is a single, common, fleet of 745s and that they will not operate between Liverpool Street and Stansted Airport; some 720s will be delivered "with tables" to form a sub-fleet for Stansted Express services.

The conversations were at different times and there was a commonality in that both just described the change to the 720s as being the addition of tables - no mention of seating being changed to 2+2 - and the information was given as fact rather than rumour; moreover, the content of one conversation included extra information given in such a way that it could have come from some sort of staff briefing

Did any of them mention where the surplus 745s would be used. A few to help on the Norwich side naturally but that'll still leave at least 6 or 7 units free in a full timetable. I think the Cambridge fasts would be a great for them.

 

[JonathanH]

I think the Cambridge fasts would be a great for them.

What Cambridge fasts? That is even more of an issue to using them to Stansted in terms of getting them back to Norwich for servicing. The whole issue of running 745s to Stansted is using them on a line which does not allow easy access to Crown Point where they are serviced. The better option would be to use them all on the Great Eastern side.

 

[dk1]

Seems utterly ridiculous that this could happen, why on earth go to the effort of building a sub fleet, all the infrastructure clearance etc and training to then decide 2 years in maybe move them somewhere else. Anyone with half a brain could have foreseen this happening, what a pointless exercise.

It’s all pretty normal in the railway world to be honest.

Did any of them mention where the surplus 745s would be used. A few to help on the Norwich side naturally but that'll still leave at least 6 or 7 units free in a full timetable. I think the Cambridge fasts would be a great for them.

The whole point is to get them off the West Anglia Main Line.

 

[AverageTD]

It’s all pretty normal in the railway world to be honest.


The whole point is to get them off the West Anglia Main Line.

To where, other GEML services like Clacton/Ipswich semis?

 

[dk1]

To where, other GEML services like Clacton/Ipswich semis?

That’s the plan.

 

[Class 170101]

And tonight we have had a 'high' speed run.
1P58 19:00 Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains - 1P58 1900 London Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also
1P54 18:00 Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains - 1P54 1800 London Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[dk1]

And tonight we have had a 'high' speed run.
1P58 19:00 Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains - 1P58 1900 London Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also
1P54 18:00 Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains - 1P54 1800 London Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It’s been so good having no engineering works & a new Sunday timetable. Almost green lights all the way on Intercity with nothing getting in our way. Catering resumed too now there’s no RR involved. Now if only we can get rid of some more very irritating dwell times.

 

[Grumbler]

And tonight we have had a 'high' speed run.
1P58 19:00 Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains - 1P58 1900 London Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also
1P54 18:00 Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains - 1P54 1800 London Liverpool Street to Norwich

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I see they cheated by departing early. Tsk tsk!

 

[ashkeba]

What Cambridge fasts? That is even more of an issue to using them to Stansted in terms of getting them back to Norwich for servicing. The whole issue of running 745s to Stansted is using them on a line which does not allow easy access to Crown Point where they are serviced. The better option would be to use them all on the Great Eastern side.

It would be better to put minor maintenance facilities on the WAML. London-Stansted-Cambridge deserves nice trains, not only commuter crush cans.

 

[Alfie1014]

It would be better to put minor maintenance facilities on the WAML. London-Stansted-Cambridge deserves nice trains, not only commuter crush cans.

But where could you fit 12 car trains that can’t be easily divided? Cambridge is already full there’s no room at Stortford and the only London end place other than Ilford which is Bombardier (now Alstom) territory is Orient Way and that’s hemmed in by the Eurostar depot.

 

[47421]

Just by way of reminder this is what we were promised under the Franchise Agreement, from May 2020

Presumably the assumption was that on GE main line with standard journey time Liv St - Norwich of 1hr45 a half hourly service (ignoring the 3tph also promised from May 19, being the Ips-LivSt semi fast extended to/from Norwich) would be operated with 8 units on a 4 hour cycle. With one more Stadler diagrammed on a peak extra. On WA 4tph StanExp with 9 units, as now. So they were assuming 18 of 20 in use every day. And was it just one from WA cycling back to Norwich on first up/last back? So Stansted units would only visit Crown Point every 9 days?

Proved to be - like everything in the Franchise Agreement - wildly optimistic. That 1hr45 wont be delivered, so just to maintain the current timetable will require more units than they ordered. 90% availability - will that ever happen? And only visiting Norwich every 9 days, seems naive.

 

[trebor79]

Proved to be - like everything in the Franchise Agreement - wildly optimistic. That 1hr45 wont be delivered,

I think the 1hr45 could be quite easily delivered providing the GEML timetable south of Colchester allowed it to happen. The trains tend to stand for several minutes at each stop now, as they arrive early on the current timetables which are still based on Class 90 timings. They aren't being driven hard either.

 

[Bikeman78]

Just by way of reminder this is what we were promised under the Franchise Agreement, from May 2020View attachment 99256

Presumably the assumption was that on GE main line with standard journey time Liv St - Norwich of 1hr45 a half hourly service (ignoring the 3tph also promised from May 19, being the Ips-LivSt semi fast extended to/from Norwich) would be operated with 8 units on a 4 hour cycle. With one more Stadler diagrammed on a peak extra. On WA 4tph StanExp with 9 units, as now. So they were assuming 18 of 20 in use every day. And was it just one from WA cycling back to Norwich on first up/last back? So Stansted units would only visit Crown Point every 9 days?

Proved to be - like everything in the Franchise Agreement - wildly optimistic. That 1hr45 wont be delivered, so just to maintain the current timetable will require more units than they ordered. 90% availability - will that ever happen? And only visiting Norwich every 9 days, seems naive.

The biggest problem with the 745s on Stansted is that when one fails you have to get it 100 miles back to its depot and move another one 100 miles the other way. Obviously they cannot attach to another passenger train. Meanwhile something else has to cover a Stansted diagram for the rest of the day. Fortunately class 317 availability has been good since the Harwich four came back. Generally the 745s have been good recently although there was a Saturday when only one of the five diagrams was covered by one.

Nine days probably isn't that bad for a modern EMU. Plenty of class 150s spend nine days or more in North Wales. The better ones stay up there until they run out of exam miles although they have to visit Crewe or Chester depot every three days for fuel and for the sewage tanks to be emptied.

I think the 1hr45 could be quite easily delivered providing the GEML timetable south of Colchester allowed it to happen. The trains tend to stand for several minutes at each stop now, as they arrive early on the current timetables which are still based on Class 90 timings. They aren't being driven hard either.

Totally agree. The class 321 schedules are all ridiculously slack with waits up to three minutes at Shenfield, Chelmsford or Marks Tey. As an example, it's often possible to catch the Clacton or Colchester train from Liverpool Street, get off at Shenfield and walk across to platform 4 onto the Southend train that departed ahead of it from Liverpool Street! 1K32 this morning is an example. Likewise 1K57/1N44 last Wednesday. How long have the schedules been so slack? If they were tightened up then the Norwich trains would get a better run.

 

[47421]

I think the 1hr45 could be quite easily delivered providing the GEML timetable south of Colchester allowed it to happen. The trains tend to stand for several minutes at each stop now, as they arrive early on the current timetables which are still based on Class 90 timings. They aren't being driven hard either.

well yes, as the RTT links above show, but seems GA/NR are not able to deliver on this franchise commitment. They have declined to publish the new GE timetable they have been consulting on, presumably because it is so disappointing, and so far off the promised "10% reduction in average journey time". As per other threads, re East Coast full information is available