Commission rates that Guards receive for selling tickets onboard.

[britishrail]

How much commission do, Guards, Conductors, Train Managers, Ticket Examiners, Revenue Protection Inspectors, etc etc etc, get for selling tickets onboard?

I have put the ones that i know below but if anyone could fill in the question marks that would be very helpful to know?

AVANTI WEST COAST:
• ????????

C2C:
• ????????

CALEDONIAN SLEEPER:
• ????????

CHILTERN RAILWAYS:
• ????????

CROSS COUNTRY:
• ????????

EAST MIDLANDS RAILWAY:
• ????????

EUROSTAR:
• ????????

GATWICK EXPRESS:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 50p per ticket - For all OBSs at all depots.

GRAND CENTRAL:
• ????????

GREAT NORTHERN:
• 0% - For all RPIs (Passenger Hosts) at all depots.

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY:
• ????????

GREATER ANGLIA:
• ????????

HEATHROW EXPRESS:
• ????????

HULL TRAINS:
• ????????

IRISH RAIL:
• ????????

ISLAND LINE:
• ????????

LONDON NORTH EASTERN RAILWAY:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 5% - For all Guards at all depots.

LONDON NORTH WESTERN RAILWAY:
• ????????

LONDON OVERGROUND:
• ????????

LUMO:
• ????????

MERSEYRAIL:
• ????????

NORTHERN:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 3% - For all Guards who are on ATN T&Cs at - Carlisle / Doncaster / Harrogate / Huddersfield / Hull / Leeds / Middlesbrough / Newcastle / Sheffield / Skipton / York - depots.
• 5% - For all Guards who are on FNW T&Cs at - Barrow / Blackburn / Blackpool / Buxton / Liverpool / Manchester Piccadilly / Manchester Victoria / Workington / Wigan - depots.
• 6% - For all Guards who are on TPE T&Cs at - Barrow / Blackpool - depots.

SCOTRAIL:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 3% - For all Ticket Examiners at all depots.
• 5% - For all Guards at all depots.

SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY:
• ????????

SOUTHERN:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 5% - For all Guards at all depots.
• 50p per ticket - For all OBSs at all depots.

SOUTHEASTERN:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 0% - For all OBMs at all depots.
• 5% - For all Guards at all depots.

STANSTED EXPRESS:
• ????????

TFL RAIL:
• ????????

THAMESLINK:
• 0% - For all RPIs (Passenger Hosts) at all depots.

TRANS PENNINE EXPRESS:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 6% - For all Guards at all depots.

TRANSLINK NORTHERN IRELAND RAILWAYS:
• 1st to 100th tickets per week - No Commision
• 101st to 200th tickets per week - 6p Per Ticket
• 201st and above tickets per week - 11p Per Ticket

TRANSPORT FOR WALES:
• 0% - For all RPIs at all depots.
• 4% - For all Guards at all depots.

WEST MIDLANDS RAILWAY:
• ????????

If anyone can fill in the blanks as to what percentage Guards at other TOCs receive that would be very helpful to know?

Do all Revenue Protection Inspectors (or Revenue Protection Officers or whatever they are called) get nothing for selling tickets? Or do any of them receive commission for ticket sales? Also do any receive commission for penalty fares and prosecutions?

 

[Komma]

LNWR 5% for the first £200 sold in a week, then 10% after that for the rest of the week. That is what a guard receives, the revenue officers get 0%.

 

[LowLevel]

EMR:
Senior Conductors: 3.5%
Train Managers: 0%
Revenue Protection Officers: 0%
Assistant Ticket Examiners: 3.5%

 

[dk1]

GA is 5% but sadly 4% for those joining after roughly 2006 for ex-Anglia guards. I think GE are on 6% but I stand to be corrected.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

LNWR 5% for the first £200 sold in a week, then 10% after that for the rest of the week. That is what a guard receives, the revenue officers get 0%.

Phoar....that's a very good incentive to check tickets, and find ticket abnormalities. £200 must be achievable within the 1st day of the working week!

 

[Stigy]

SWR Commercial Guards get 5%. Non-commercial or “metro” as I think they’re now known, don’t sell tickets. Not sure if Island Line is this same? I would have thought so, being the same company really, but I guess they may have different T&C.

Revenue Staff don’t get commission.

 

[craigybagel]

LNWR 5% for the first £200 sold in a week, then 10% after that for the rest of the week. That is what a guard receives, the revenue officers get 0%.

Phoar....that's a very good incentive to check tickets, and find ticket abnormalities. £200 must be achievable within the 1st day of the working week!

I know it used to be the case that this rate only applied for the ex Silverlink depots (Watford Junction, Bletchley and Northampton) with the ex Central depots being a lot less generous. The other depots did get the higher rates as a trial a few years ago but I don't think it was continued.

 

[COYI1971]

GA is 5% but sadly 4% for those joining after roughly 2006 for ex-Anglia guards. I think GE are on 6% but I stand to be corrected.

Correct,GE are on 6%

 

[185]

I know it used to be the case that this rare only applied for the ex Silverlink depots (Watford Junction, Bletchley and Northampton) with the ex Central depots being a lot less generous. The other depots did get the higher rates as a trial a few years ago but I don't think it was continued.

WMR, and LNR North (ex Central conditions) are 1% of ordinary tickes and 4% of their company-route-only flow tickets.

 

[Lewis5949]

SWR Commercial Guards get 5%. Non-commercial or “metro” as I think they’re now known, don’t sell tickets. Not sure if Island Line is this same? I would have thought so, being the same company really, but I guess they may have different T&C.

Revenue Staff don’t get commission.

Considering the piss poor pay I've seen for SWR revenue... they don't get commission either? :facepalm:

 

[Dai Corner]

Considering the piss poor pay I've seen for SWR revenue... they don't get commission either? :facepalm:

On the other hand they don't have to deal with passengers, except to yell 'keep clear' if someone's too close when they're closing the doors.

 

[Lewis5949]

On the other hand they don't have to deal with passengers, except to yell 'keep clear' if someone's too close when they're closing the doors.

Wouldn't they have to deal with more abuse from evaders?

 

[Starmill]

Considering the piss poor pay I've seen for SWR revenue... they don't get commission either? :facepalm:

I think it's rare for staff with revenue as a primary role (so excluding the likes of conductors) to receive commission. Of course it's not unheard of.

 

[Dai Corner]

Wouldn't they have to deal with more abuse from evaders?

Sorry, I misread the post and thought we were talking about non-commercial guards.

 

[Starmill]

Phoar....that's a very good incentive to check tickets, and find ticket abnormalities. £200 must be achievable within the 1st day of the working week!

It depends on how one looks at it. There will be a lot of shifts where you can only inspect a tiny number of tickets because stops are every 2 - 3 minutes e.g. cross-city line. There are also a lot where you will find few passengers and all of those who are onboard have come through ticket gates, so everyone you see already has an apparently correct ticket. Obviously there will also be some that are just the opposite! A lot of onboard sales will have gone permanently now to eticket or pay as you go.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

It depends on how one looks at it. There will be a lot of shifts where you can only inspect a tiny number of tickets because stops are every 2 - 3 minutes e.g. cross-city line. There are also a lot where you will find few passengers and all of those who are onboard have come through ticket gates, so everyone you see already has an apparently correct ticket. Obviously there will also be some that are just the opposite! A lot of onboard sales will have gone permanently now to eticket or pay as you go.

I guess it depends on the shifts, Monday morning early turns, selling 7 day seasons or peak returns must be lucative but Wednesday Late Late turns where you are hiding in rear cab results in nothing I suppose. Its a ⁵⁰/⁵⁰ chance then

 

[LowLevel]

I guess it depends on the shifts, Monday morning early turns, selling 7 day seasons or peak returns must be lucative but Wednesday Late Late turns where you are hiding in rear cab results in nothing I suppose. Its a ⁵⁰/⁵⁰ chance then

I make as much if not more on lates than earlies nowadays. Don't do many 7 day seasons and most bigger tickets are bought online now. Taking less than 300 quid a shift is unusual unless I'm on interregional work and that's with most stations having TVMs now.

Much easier to go out shaking the bucket on late trains where people are less expectant of seeing you.

Too many people scared of their own shadow on lates for no good reason. I've been assaulted before, always in the daytime.

 

[43066]

Too many people scared of their own shadow on lates for no good reason. I've been assaulted before, always in the daytime.

Would you say that’s always been the case, or a more recent trend?

Anecdotally to me (of course you’re far better placed than I to observe!) it seems that weekend daytime behaviour is worst of all now, with sports fans travelling and weekend drinking/drug use clearly starting very early indeed for some!

 

[LowLevel]

Would you say that’s always been the case, or a more recent trend?

Anecdotally to me (of course you’re far better placed than I to observe!) it seems that weekend daytime behaviour is worst of all now, with sports fans travelling and weekend drinking/drug use clearly starting very early indeed for some!

I think there's a perception that late night customers are all dodgy, or drunk and difficult. Personally, I remember I'm a guard not a revenue protection inspector or a policeman, and I go down the train and sell people train tickets.

Offer your group of loud drunks a groupsave and make it sound like a good deal. Sell off peak tickets and allow railcards. Take advantage of the fact that that shifty looking character probably doesn't want the attention of kicking off for the sake of a few quid.

If you get caught out in the middle of nowhere with no backup and a difficult character, know when to beat a diplomatic retreat or move on, and how to do it.

This concept of danger has always been there. I've always smashed my late night trains and very rarely have any issues. Sometimes it requires more people skills, but it usually pays back in spades by being aware of and proactively preventing issues before they occur.

Yes, drunks can be difficult, and if someone is dribbling drunk and senseless getting them to where they need to be is more sensible than trying to shake them upside down to see a ticket or obtain a fare.

Weeknights in particular are mostly shift workers, people going home from work or a night out or people who don't want the attention of falling out with a guard.

I can genuinely say I'm lucky that misbehaviour and aggression go straight over my head though and I know when to walk away - that might not apply to everyone.

 

[Dai Corner]

I think there's a perception that late night customers are all dodgy, or drunk and difficult. Personally, I remember I'm a guard not a revenue protection inspector or a policeman, and I go down the train and sell people train tickets.

Offer your group of loud drunks a groupsave and make it sound like a good deal. Sell off peak tickets and allow railcards. Take advantage of the fact that that shifty looking character probably doesn't want the attention of kicking off for the sake of a few quid.

If you get caught out in the middle of nowhere with no backup and a difficult character, know when to beat a diplomatic retreat or move on, and how to do it.

This concept of danger has always been there. I've always smashed my late night trains and very rarely have any issues. Sometimes it requires more people skills, but it usually pays back in spades by being aware of and proactively preventing issues before they occur.

Yes, drunks can be difficult, and if someone is dribbling drunk and senseless getting them to where they need to be is more sensible than trying to shake them upside down to see a ticket or obtain a fare.

Weeknights in particular are mostly shift workers, people going home from work or a night out or people who don't want the attention of falling out with a guard.

I can genuinely say I'm lucky that misbehaviour and aggression go straight over my head though and I know when to walk away - that might not apply to everyone.

Which begs the question "are guards trained in dealing with this kind of situation or do they work it out for themselves?'

 

[LowLevel]

Which begs the question "are guards trained in dealing with this kind of situation or do they work it out for themselves?'

I'm not sure you can be trained for it. You get helpful hints, and there's policies to follow but major parts of it are down to your own experiences and personality which is of course down to the recruitment process selecting the right people

Not to mention you can be the most engaging, gregarious person in the world and still have it go wrong and get thumped.

 

[Starmill]

On SWR it is very common to see the guard going through the train late at night saying hello to people and wishing them a good evening. They're often not actually inspecting tickets but are there to catch anyone who has got on the wrong train or needs to be in the right place for a short platform or whatever it may be. It's also common for them to announce that if anyone has any questions they can stop them as they're coming through. I'm sure some commercial guards would do tickets every time but of course there's not a real obligation to.

 

[Numbnuts846]

SWR Commercial Guards get 5%. Non-commercial or “metro” as I think they’re now known, don’t sell tickets. Not sure if Island Line is this same? I would have thought so, being the same company really, but I guess they may have different T&C.

Revenue Staff don’t get commission.

Island line get 5%

 

[dave87016]

In addition to the northern trains ones you have posted I believe that the guards get 2p for every ticket they scan using the scanner I may be wrong bot got that from a mate who’s a guard at Northern

 

[Wave01]

Tpe also get a £1 bonus for weekend upgrades

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder if these commissions extend to penalty fares or unpaid fares notices as well?

 

[railfan99]

I make as much if not more on lates than earlies nowadays. Don't do many 7 day seasons and most bigger tickets are bought online now. Taking less than 300 quid a shift is unusual unless I'm on interregional work and that's with most stations having TVMs now.

Much easier to go out shaking the bucket on late trains where people are less expectant of seeing you.

Too many people scared of their own shadow on lates for no good reason. I've been assaulted before, always in the daytime.

Great post, and well done for adding to revenue.

I'm a foreigner, and will have a Eurailpass, but if I may ask out of interest:

(a) do guards/conductors accept cash only (UK pounds), or do you also have a little credit card machine with you (when it can obtain a signal)
(b) do you have fare table cards to look up the fare (including reductions for your UK Railcard holders), or is this done automatically via smartphone/iPad/other device?
(c) do you vary the routine to minimise the chance of fare evaders "knowing" which car(s) rarely or never have a ticket check
(d) in UK, do you have the power to kick fare evaders off at the next station if they refuse to purchase when asked?

Thank you again for your no doubt terrific work ethic.

 

[Watershed]

(a) do guards/conductors accept cash only (UK pounds), or do you also have a little credit card machine with you (when it can obtain a signal)

They generally have facilities to accept both. But where the required facilities exist, passengers have to buy before they board and so guards can, at their discretion, decide only to sell an undiscounted Anytime (Day) Single to a station served by the train. Rather than the Railcard discounted Off-Peak Return to a station on another line, that the passenger may want!

(b) do you have fare table cards to look up the fare (including reductions for your UK Railcard holders), or is this done automatically via smartphone/iPad/other device?

All done through a smartphone nowadays, with a small ticket printer (typically connected via Bluetooth). They also have the capability to scan e-tickets and read smartcards, and see the associated scan/tap/purchase history.

(c) do you vary the routine to minimise the chance of fare evaders "knowing" which car(s) rarely or never have a ticket check

On many TOCs and types of traction, there's little opportunity to mix things up - it's dictated by the proximity of station stops and (usually) the requirement to release the doors at each stop. Some stock is particularly poorly designed, e.g. only having one intermediate door panel in a three or four coach unit.

(d) in UK, do you have the power to kick fare evaders off at the next station if they refuse to purchase when asked?

Yes, e.g. through the Byelaws - other powers also exist. That said it's a less common occurrence nowadays and there are often company guidelines/procedures dictating when and how it can be done. Most TOCs prohibit their crews from kicking off vulnerable passengers.