• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Cricket

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,122
England 204 all out
Mahmood 49 (1x6 and 4x4)
Leach 41 not out (5x4)

Chopped onto his stumps in the final over of the day. The last pair shared a stand of 90.
First time in any test match since 1885 that nos 10 and 11 were the two highest scorers in an innings: it was also Mahmood's highest score in any competitive match. Now if only Leach was as good a bowler as he is a batsman!

P.S. Last remark was a little harsh, on reflection, and they should just be congratulated for their efforts which have ensured that, for now, England are not down and out.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

High Dyke

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2013
Messages
4,284
Location
Yellabelly Country
Meanwhile, England's ladies took a good step to progressing in the World Cup, as the defeated Pakistan by nine wickets. Of note was the 3-17 for Katherine Brunt, whose had a bit of a lean spell with the ball.
 

geoffk

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
3,269
The fourth day in Grenada was due to start at 14.00 as usual - but the small print says 14.00 GMT and probably the clocks don't change in the Caribbean as they are near the Equator. So we have to wait until 15.00 BST to learn of England's fate, not that there's much doubt about it!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,447
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
The fourth day in Grenada was due to start at 14.00 as usual - but the small print says 14.00 GMT and probably the clocks don't change in the Caribbean as they are near the Equator. So we have to wait until 15.00 BST to learn of England's fate, not that there's much doubt about it!
Not all that long to wait as England were all out for 120 in their second innings, which took no time for the West Indies to score the required 28 runs for a 10-wicket victory.

Kyle Mayers has had a bowling match to remember: -
In England 1st innings......10 - 7 - 13 - 2
In England 2nd innings.....17 - 9 - 18 - 5
 

stantheman

On Moderation
Joined
17 Nov 2017
Messages
339
An I the only one who thinks Root is an overrated batsman ? His average is sustained by a few very high scores but he is out cheaply far too often. He cannot destroy an attack like really great players . He does not intimidate the opposition . Really great players score heavily in Australia
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,122
An I the only one who thinks Root is an overrated batsman ? His average is sustained by a few very high scores but he is out cheaply far too often. He cannot destroy an attack like really great players . He does not intimidate the opposition . Really great players score heavily in Australia
No bowler has ever got Root out twice in the same match for as few runs as Kyle Mayers did, and that's 121 tests worth. I can't agree with your analysis at all, even down to 'destroying an attack'. Many great batsmen, from Sachin Tendulkar downwards, weren't on the whole destructive. One day and T20 cricket has emphasised big hitting, of course, but test cricket demands a lot more technique and patience. Root should have the captaincy removed, though, and passed on to Stokes. Root was as responsible for stupidly omitting Anderson and Broad as anyone else. Overton has proved he'll never be a test bowler, whereas Mahmood does look worth persevering with. And why wasn't Matt Parkinson picked? Oh, sorry. Leach had to be preferred for his batting. :rolleyes:
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,229
An I the only one who thinks Root is an overrated batsman ? His average is sustained by a few very high scores but he is out cheaply far too often. He cannot destroy an attack like really great players . He does not intimidate the opposition . Really great players score heavily in Australia

You may well be the only one.

His average is pretty remarkable, given that for most of his career he has been invariably striding to the crease with fewer than a hundred runs on the board from the top 3, and therefore having to do the hard yards that they haven’t, often facing a ball that is still newish.

In the modern era of England Cricket, only Pietersen comes close to Root, average wise, and he had Cook and Strauss opening for him for almost all his test career; more often than not he could come in and throw the bat around.
 

Typhoon

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2017
Messages
3,521
Location
Kent
I can't agree with your analysis at all, even down to 'destroying an attack'. Many great batsmen, from Sachin Tendulkar downwards, weren't on the whole destructive.
Quite agree. Surely such a statement is sacrilege in the West Riding - I don't think Sir Geoffrey was renowned for destroying an attack but he didn't half accumulate runs. However, the one I remember most is Ken Barrington, Lord Ted would march out to the crease and bash the ball about a bit for a quickfire 60 or 70 but it was Barrington that would get the big hundreds, the scores that win (or save) matches. 20 tons in 80 odd tests, with a test average of over 50. You need a mixture of batting types. Right now we need a consistent opening bat - like Alastair Cook, someone to see the new ball out and ensure that the number 3 is not coming in with the shine still on the ball and the opening bowlers still fresh.

In the modern era of England Cricket, only Pietersen comes close to Root, average wise, and he had Cook and Strauss opening for him for almost all his test career; more often than not he could come in and throw the bat around.
You've hit the nail on the head, we are too worried about openers being quick run scorers, their priority should be to grind the opening bowlers down. Test matches are five days long for a reason.

Root was as responsible for stupidly omitting Anderson and Broad as anyone else. Overton has proved he'll never be a test bowler, whereas Mahmood does look worth persevering with
Whatever the masterplan was, one of them should have gone, someone who has been there, done it. Woakes is not your go-to bowler. Even if they were not playing in all of the tests, their experience would have counted for a lot. And Wood not lasting the series was pretty predictable, we needed experienced back-up.
 

SteveM70

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2018
Messages
3,891
So Mahmood topped both the batting and bowling averages for England in the series just finished.

Can’t agree with the comment about Root not being an overrated batsman, but he is a very, very poor captain. I’ve made this point before but it merits being repeated - one of the (probably unforeseen) impacts of a busier international calendar and central contracts whereby the ECB ration the amount of county cricket the centrally contracted players take part in, is that none of the England players captain their county sides so inevitably whoever captains England will have precious little captaincy experience
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,447
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Right now we need a consistent opening bat - like Alastair Cook, someone to see the new ball out and ensure that the number 3 is not coming in with the shine still on the ball and the opening bowlers still fresh.
Agreed with this, except you also need another opener to stay with Cook in order to prevent the number three batsman facing what you so describe above.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,122
I’ve made this point before but it merits being repeated - one of the (probably unforeseen) impacts of a busier international calendar and central contracts whereby the ECB ration the amount of county cricket the centrally contracted players take part in, is that none of the England players captain their county sides so inevitably whoever captains England will have precious little captaincy experience
You certainly don't want to select a player purely on the basis that they have captaincy experience, otherwise you'll just get Burns or, more likely, Vince back, or Joe Leach replacing Jack Leach. :D Many counties seem to deliberately choose overseas players as captains these days, perhaps as a carrot to dangle: for instance, before he pulled out of the contract, Travis Head was to have been Sussex captain in red ball cricket this summer.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,447
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
You certainly don't want to select a player purely on the basis that they have captaincy experience, otherwise you'll just get Burns or, more likely, Vince back, or Joe Leach replacing Jack Leach. :D Many counties seem to deliberately choose overseas players as captains these days, perhaps as a carrot to dangle: for instance, before he pulled out of the contract, Travis Head was to have been Sussex captain in red ball cricket this summer.
Lancashire seem happy with the South African player Dane Vilas as captain, who produced some notable innings last season.
 

Typhoon

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2017
Messages
3,521
Location
Kent
Agreed with this, except you also need another opener to stay with Cook in order to prevent the number three batsman facing what you so describe above.
Point taken. Maybe I should have said "ensure that the number 4 or 5 are not coming in with the shine still on the ball and the opening bowlers still fresh" because that is what happens far too often.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,899
You may well be the only one.

His average is pretty remarkable, given that for most of his career he has been invariably striding to the crease with fewer than a hundred runs on the board from the top 3, and therefore having to do the hard yards that they haven’t, often facing a ball that is still newish.

In the modern era of England Cricket, only Pietersen comes close to Root, average wise, and he had Cook and Strauss opening for him for almost all his test career; more often than not he could come in and throw the bat around.
it was even worse in calendar year 2021 - England played 29 test innings* and in over half of them (15 out of the 29) the second wicket fell at less than 20, meaning that number 4 came to the crease with the score in single figures or teens.

The arithmetic mean of the scores at the fall of the second wicket is dragged upward by two innings against India with century opening stands, but the median score at the fall of the second wicket was just 18.

(*15 matches, with one innings victory over India)
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,355
Can’t agree with the comment about Root not being an overrated batsman, but he is a very, very poor captain.
I heard it said yesterday that Joe Root the batsman's biggest misfortune is to be playing in a side captained by Joe Root.
 

Pakenhamtrain

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2014
Messages
1,018
Location
Melbourne, Australia
The State Memorial for Shane Warne is on today. Starting at 7PM AEDT

OyntSo4.jpg


It ends with the renaming of the Great Southern Stand to the Shane Warne Stand
 
Last edited:

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,122
The late, great Shane Warne, whose Victoria State Memorial Service took place today, once wrote assessing the virtues (mostly) and vices of other main players who he'd played with, against or just seen in action. I'm returning to the cricketers' nickname topic because fans chanted ''Warney, Warney'' today and one of the players he had commented on was Robin Smith, the Hampshire and England batsman, whose nickname was 'Judge.' I've no idea how he got that nickname, any ideas? Anyway, in Warne's opinion, Smith was the nicest person he'd ever come across in the cricket world.
 

Typhoon

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2017
Messages
3,521
Location
Kent
The late, great Shane Warne, whose Victoria State Memorial Service took place today, once wrote assessing the virtues (mostly) and vices of other main players who he'd played with, against or just seen in action. I'm returning to the cricketers' nickname topic because fans chanted ''Warney, Warney'' today and one of the players he had commented on was Robin Smith, the Hampshire and England batsman, whose nickname was 'Judge.' I've no idea how he got that nickname, any ideas? Anyway, in Warne's opinion, Smith was the nicest person he'd ever come across in the cricket world.
Judge - I was under the impression it was that his hair style resembled a judge's wig. (Probably not true now - but https://www.crictracker.com/5-insta...ers-got-fitting-replies-for-their-sledging/3/)
 

High Dyke

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2013
Messages
4,284
Location
Yellabelly Country
England's Women make it to the World Cup final, beating South Africa by 137 runs. Brilliant bowling by Sophie Ecclestone (6-36), and a superb 129 for Danni Wyatt.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,355
England's Women make it to the World Cup final, beating South Africa by 137 runs. Brilliant bowling by Sophie Ecclestone (6-36), and a superb 129 for Danni Wyatt.
Anya Shrubsole removing both South African openers for not very much was also an important contribution. If she can repeat that with Healy and Haynes - who had an opening partnership of over 200 in the other semi - in the final it would be most welcome!
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,122

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,447
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Lancashire started the new season away at Kent and at one stage lost their first three batsmen at 80-3 then a fine stand between Croft and Vilas took the score on to 295-4 with both players hitting centuries before Vilas was dismissed and were 345-4 at close of play.

Any truth in the rumour that Root has decided that the English captaincy is not for him?
 

scarby

Member
Joined
20 May 2011
Messages
746
Lancashire started the new season away at Kent and at one stage lost their first three batsmen at 80-3 then a fine stand between Croft and Vilas took the score on to 295-4 with both players hitting centuries before Vilas was dismissed and were 345-4 at close of play.

Any truth in the rumour that Root has decided that the English captaincy is not for him?
Yes.
 

HST43257

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2020
Messages
1,446
Location
York
Joe Root steps down as England Test captain following West Indies defeat - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60895801
Not surprised.

Root’s done a lot for the team, but I think the time had come.

In terms of who I’d have as a replacement, I wouldn’t want to put anything else on Ben Stokes, who has had his own personal struggles recently. But he’s the only person who I see as a regular in the team other than Root.

In the short term, I wonder about having Stuart Broad until just after the 2023 Ashes.

After that - we’ll see I guess.
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,202
"Never play spinners in April".

Myth. Debunked. Totally. In fact a piece in the Guardian proved that batsmen do score the most runs in April, wish I could go back and find/quote from it. Mind you, statistics and all that, many a bowler in April will still be finding their feet and, for example, last season for many weeks bowlers and fielders fingers were numb with cold (so spinners wouldn't have a chance).
 

Cletus

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2010
Messages
2,230
Location
Dover
Kent's opener Ben Compton carried his bat with 104 not out in the 1st innings and with Kent following-on he is 20 not out in the 2nd.
 

Top