Doctor Fegg
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- 9 Nov 2010
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A further five are reputedly under discussion.Seven for XC isn’t it?
A further five are reputedly under discussion.Seven for XC isn’t it?
On the GWR intercity trains, I'm not aware of two sets of catering staff, one for each set of 5-car trains, when running as 10 cars.Passenger assistance, in case of an emergency, revenue protection, catering, etc.
That's mad. I assume they need to depart at the same time due to needing to be clear of platforms or junctions so that other trains are not impacted. They can't both arrive at Oxford at the same time as its one platform.I think the GWR Paddington to Oxford service should be extended to Banbury.
At least then, there is the option of transferring to Chiltern for the onward journey to Birmingham.
Although GWR do operate to Banbury, it is only a two hourly service that starts at Didcot Parkway.
It also does not help on a Sunday when the service north in the Oxford direction is now only once an hour, from Reading - on both GWR and XC.
Both service leave the same time, or a minute apart in the hour, which is absurd.
They should be half an hour apart, in the hour.
An example for the 31st March, is in the attached image.
What are the chances of them having enough staff by June 2025?Except as we keep pointing out, that’s not planned to happen until June 2025, which will certainly help with the situation between Reading and Birmingham. However, even with them coming back alternate trains won’t go beyond York.
Not helped by all of the (standard) reservations being in C & D, with generally fewer in H-L. If you're a regular, like me, you know you've a chance of a seat in the higher letters... then the consist that turns up is the wrong way round, as during today's Barrow Hill diversion, so I ended up standing in the vestibule of C from Sheffield to Leeds. Screens and RTT agreed with other, but the situation on the ground (track) was different.However, on the rare occasions you do encounter a 8/10 carriage train, even that can be overcrowded.
Some parts of their network need more than the once an hour service currently offered.
A further five are reputedly under discussion.
We used that rationale on a trip from Cheltenham to Chesterfield in January. It had worked well on our outbound journey and was fine up to Birmingham on the way back. There even the rear 5 car unit filled up well. That was as nothing when the 5 car unit was detached at Derby so we all had to cram into the continuing 4. It was then announced as terminating at York!Not helped by all of the (standard) reservations being in C & D, with generally fewer in H-L. If you're a regular, like me, you know you've a chance of a seat in the higher letters... then the consist that turns up is the wrong way round, as during today's Barrow Hill diversion, so I ended up standing in the vestibule of C from Sheffield to Leeds. Screens and RTT agreed with other, but the situation on the ground (track) was different.
A consistent five-car minimum would help, as there would be an unreserved coach (B or F) whichever end you stood. If they were 802s (or even 810s) there would be more seats too compared with a five-car 221. With more legroom. Pity XC is unlikely to get any.
Better late than never, I supposeThe rest are going in June and apparently XC are having some.
Enough to compensate for the loss of the HSTs perhaps, not enough to grow capacity.Seven for XC isn’t it?
lots of trains operate DOO and in this case there is still a member of staff who could move between units. An example of passengers coming last again?
Enough to compensate for the loss of the HSTs perhaps, not enough to grow capacity.
What made you think that I thought that they were? I was lamenting the meagre allocation.What evidence do you have that the DfT is interested in growing capacity?
Better late than never, I suppose
Enough to compensate for the loss of the HSTs perhaps, not enough to grow capacity.
Nor does it have the competenceThis government doesn’t seem overly interested in growing rail.
We refurbished the entire 100 plus mk3 fleet at GA to a high spec Inc CET and power sockets throughout only to announce replacement of the entire lot less than 3 years later.
They would have been very good for additional Cross country services.
Probably so but they didn’t want them. Suppose it was the traction contract that would have been the headache.
And they where not converted to power doors.
How could a member of staff move between sets of Voyagers? They aren't walk through.lots of trains operate DOO and in this case there is still a member of staff who could move between units. An example of passengers coming last again?
I’d missed that, I knew it had been pushed back from June 2024 but I thought it was now December 2024.Except as we keep pointing out, that’s not planned to happen until June 2025, which will certainly help with the situation between Reading and Birmingham. However even with them coming back alternate trains won’t go beyond York.
I think (but might be wrong) that the catering manager can be the second member of staff when it’s a double unit. But catering staff availability can be hit and miss on XC even at the best of times.If they require double crewing with guards (i.e. the driver can't count as a member of staff in the second unit, nor can the trolley person as they can on GWR) they could just change their stupid rule
I beg to differ. Capacity is absolutely needed from Sheffield to Leeds and to Newcastle on many trains, like that experienced by my grandson on Sunday that lead to me starting this thread, Post 1.To be honest, terminating those trains at York isn’t so bad, IME they were always relatively quiet north of York anyway. The capacity is really only needed Reading-Birmingham-Sheffield, but with Sheffield being a really awkward place to transfer for trains further north.
Four 2+7 HST diagrams is roughly compensated for by six or seven 5 car Voyager diagrams. The difference is that seven Voyager trains can produce six to seven diagrams without breaking a sweat. The five HST sets and six pairs of power cars hardly ever worked with more than two simultaneous diagrams. So from the point of view of actual utilisation it's a (very marginal) increase.Enough to compensate for the loss of the HSTs perhaps, not enough to grow capacity.
The trains via Leeds are very busy and always have been. These are the ones from the south west which go through to Edinburgh.I beg to differ. Capacity is absolutely needed from Sheffield to Leeds and to Newcastle on many trains, like that experienced by my grandson on Sunday
What made you think that I thought that they were? I was lamenting the meagre allocation.
At stations - they stop often enoughHow could a member of staff move between sets of Voyagers? They aren't walk through.
It is if you, like me, want a quick journey from Sheffield to Newcastle or Edinburgh, adds 20 minutes to the journey. Send the Reading trains to Edinburgh and beyond and terminate the longer distance ones at York!The trains via Leeds are very busy and always have been. These are the ones from the south west which go through to Edinburgh.
The trains via Doncaster, which are the ones from Reading, were generally much quieter north of York as they terminate at Newcastle. So terminating them at York is no big deal.
Agreed. I know IETs are not generally liked on here but they are light years ahead of voyagers.XC rips a massive hole in the railways green credentials. Running gas guzzling voyagers 100s of miles under the wires is just daft. Get a few bimodes for Edinburgh - Exeter, and EMUs fror Brum - Manchester (cl 350?) so Voyager workings can be 8 car.
And spark the fast lines Kings Norton - Longbridge.
But they'd lose my extra revenue when I book 1st to get a seat!I'm sure it's been suggested before but converting the first class coach to standard class would increase capacity on 4 car Voyagers by 25% for minimal cost!
XC rips a massive hole in the railways green credentials. Running gas guzzling voyagers 100s of miles under the wires is just daft. Get a few bimodes for Edinburgh - Exeter, and EMUs fror Brum - Manchester (cl 350?) so Voyager workings can be 8 car.
And spark the fast lines Kings Norton - Longbridge.
Agreed. I know IETs are not generally liked on here but they are light years ahead of voyagers.
But when the service from Reading to York cones back does that then put us back to square one?Hopefully they make the case successfully for the additional 5 voyagers.
In the meantime I think the effect of the extra 7 is under estimated. If 6 per day are used that's got the potential to lengthen 18 diagrams via a cascade within the fleet.
6 * 5 car sets replace 6 * 4 car sets. Extra 62 seats.
Frees up 6 * 4 car to formed 8 car sets with another 4 car diagram.
Use 8 car sets to replace 6 existing 5 car diagrams. Extra 132 seats.
6 additional 4 car diagrams become 5 cars. Extra 62 seats.
18 diagrams is around a third of services.
Reading - York/Newcastle has already returned at 5tpd.But when the service from Reading to York cones back does that then put us back to square one?