Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[nlogax]

No need to use Traksy for that, Realtime Trains will say "at platform" when it's there in the signalling system. Was caught out by that once though when there was a last minute set swap.

I've been similarly caught out by last minute changes maybe one or twice over the years. Very rare in my experience though.

 

[TPO]

You can't blame individuals in a situation/environment not of their making or in which they have no control over. Hillsborough has shown us that, as have various disasters noted above.

Suppose I arrive at Euston in good time to catch the 1243 to Liverpool. As a normal passenger/customer, I've no idea that the inbound working (0943 L'pool - Euston) is scheduled to arrive in platform 7 at 1204. All I know is that my train should leave at 1243. I'd already got my ticket, I'd arrived at Euston at midday. Can't see my train on any departure board. So I stand and wait. And wait. Nothing on the screens. It's now 1215. I don't know Euston very well, but wait in the middle of the concourse, along with everyone else. I see trains (with later departures than mine) appear on the board. No sign of mine yet. It's now 1230. Starting to get a bit anxious. I start to remember when I was a child going on a long journey, the train would be at the station way before we left. 1235 - no word that the train's been cancelled. Have I missed which platform it leaves from? 1240; getting really worried now. Suddenly it appears on the screen; platform 7. My legs aren't too good but I begin to walk quickly, then I notice others are running. I don't want to miss it as my ticket is for that, and only that, train. So I start to run too. Get to the barrier but a long queue on the ramp in front of me. I'll miss my train: what shall I do?

Little did I know that the inbound working arrived 30 minutes late and my train would actually leave about 15 minutes late at 1258, so I will catch it after all. But the stress, the worry. Maybe next time I'll get the coach or even drive...

Good point.

What is critical is the passengers having confidence that THERE WILL BE ENOUGH TIME FOR ALL TO BOARD at a sensible pace- even if this delays the train by 15 minutes. Indeed, a "minimum guaranteed boarding time-" from calling the train to departure- being advertised and stuck to for every type of train leaving a busy terminus station (it could be longer for a long-distance train) would probably improve things considerably, for the cleaners and traincrew as well as passengers.

Back in the (pre-COVID) days when I was traveling out of Paddington regularly, even where they called a train with less than 5 minutes to scheduled departure, they always tried to get it out on time...... (with the HSTs of course that was more of a challenge for the TOC to do as one in a group could sprint ahead and hold the door open ).

The dominating culture of "delay minutes are the currency of the railway......" can be extremely counterproductive in some situations- and a late incoming train for a departure from a terminus station is one of them.

(I suspect airlines don't have this issue due to the need to check in, holding passengers in a departure lounge and the luggage going into the hold separately; irrespective of any incoming delay, everyone checked in and waiting at the gate is going to be able to get on).

TPO

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The dominating culture of "delay minutes are the currency of the railway......" can be extremely counterproductive in some situations...

It does sometimes seem that it's this particular tail that's more than often to be observed wagging the dog (that is the modern day GB railway).

 

[infobleep]

Apologies. What exactly does that mean?!

My apologies fir the typo. No corrected it. It was indeed some.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The dominating culture of "delay minutes are the currency of the railway......" can be extremely counterproductive in some situations- and a late incoming train for a departure from a terminus station is one of them.

Another is not holding a connection to save a minute or two, resulting in a delay for the would-be connecting passngers of an hour or more. Which is rather like a courier turning up on time but empty-handed.

 

[stephen rp]

You can't blame individuals in a situation/environment not of their making or in which they have no control over. Hillsborough has shown us that, as have various disasters noted above.

Suppose I arrive at Euston in good time to catch the 1243 to Liverpool. As a normal passenger/customer, I've no idea that the inbound working (0943 L'pool - Euston) is scheduled to arrive in platform 7 at 1204. All I know is that my train should leave at 1243. I'd already got my ticket, I'd arrived at Euston at midday. Can't see my train on any departure board. So I stand and wait. And wait. Nothing on the screens. It's now 1215. I don't know Euston very well, but wait in the middle of the concourse, along with everyone else. I see trains (with later departures than mine) appear on the board. No sign of mine yet. It's now 1230. Starting to get a bit anxious. I start to remember when I was a child going on a long journey, the train would be at the station way before we left. 1235 - no word that the train's been cancelled. Have I missed which platform it leaves from? 1240; getting really worried now. Suddenly it appears on the screen; platform 7. My legs aren't too good but I begin to walk quickly, then I notice others are running. I don't want to miss it as my ticket is for that, and only that, train. So I start to run too. Get to the barrier but a long queue on the ramp in front of me. I'll miss my train: what shall I do?

Little did I know that the inbound working arrived 30 minutes late and my train would actually leave about 15 minutes late at 1258, so I will catch it after all. But the stress, the worry. Maybe next time I'll get the coach or even drive...

That really should be a basic fix. "Dissemination of information" was a thing on BR 50 years ago.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve always thought the rush is more to do with securing seats rather than concern about missing the train. Even with reservations people are keen to be there first to “mark their territory”.

Yes, I must say I always make sure to do this. I travel monthly on the Portsmouth Cardiff route, and when going to Cardiff from Fratton I get on it when it's on it's way into Portsmouth, therefore I'm already on-board (and in the declassified first class) before everyone else is.

 

[Skie]

There is plenty of space at Euston. Just let the passengers wait on the platform 5+ minutes after the inbound service has arrived. The doors are locked anyway, and if the boards simply showed at 17:25: "Departure 17:43. WAIT ON PLATFORM 6" it'd move people down over a longer period and hopefully avoid the rush.

You can't rely on Avanti's reservations system to be working even if you have a reserved seat. Several times recently I've boarded and found all the overhead displays showing Available in the reservable coaches, and people milling around bewildered unsure whether their reservation applies or not.

It's been awful recently, but even in the Virgin days the amount of times I boarded and the reservations loaded just minutes before departure (or not at all) was quite high. Feeds into the mindset of needing to just get on and grab a seat in C/U ASAP even if you have one booked already.

Being able to easily switch reserved seats online would help. I travel with people regularly and we all book our own tickets so never end up together, so we contribute to the problem by making a beeline for an unreserved table. If we could just access an Avanti/Industry run portal to enter out details and swap them for a set of seats together it'd be beneficial.

Not showing delayed until after the scheduled departure time even though it's well known in advance the service won't be leaving on time due to a late arrival is a pet peeve and doesn't help the rush. NR and Avanti know that service will leave late, why on earth can't they add a delayed message and enter an estimated time once they're more confident?

 

[bramling]

Yes, I must say I always make sure to do this. I travel monthly on the Portsmouth Cardiff route, and when going to Cardiff from Fratton I get on it when it's on it's way into Portsmouth, therefore I'm already on-board (and in the declassified first class) before everyone else is.

I occasionally used to do this at King’s Cross on GN services with a short turnround. Boarding at Finsbury Park on the train’s incoming journey was a very civilised way to do things, and *highly* satisfying to already be nicely in place when everyone piled on upon arrival at King’s Cross.

I guess not really viable at Euston, though I daresay there may be the odd person who might be prepared to travel in from somewhere like Harrow & Wealdstone or Watford Junction if making a long-distance journey.

 

[Kite159]

I occasionally used to do this at King’s Cross on GN services with a short turnround. Boarding at Finsbury Park on the train’s incoming journey was a very civilised way to do things, and *highly* satisfying to already be nicely in place when everyone piled on upon arrival at King’s Cross.

I guess not really viable at Euston, though I daresay there may be the odd person who might be prepared to travel in from somewhere like Harrow & Wealdstone or Watford Junction if making a long-distance journey.

Maybe in the days where the services interworked more at the London end (ie where a stopper from Tring would form a Crewe train) probably not so much these days.

 

[Travelmonkey]

It's not just a Euston phenomenon I was at St Pancras in December & even with a "queuing system" in place once the gates opened it was a scrum to get on with the lionshare going on the rear train. That is something shared with Euston is the getting on the train so the rear gets full and standing but a large proportion of seats are free in the front, ultimately I can't help but think of this Tommy Lee Jones quote from Men In Black.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that people were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow"

And 5 minutes to go I'd know my train to Lichfield (although I cheat and use RTT)

 

[occone]

Euston is definitely a trample risk at times but in a slightly different aspect the least safe situation I've personally seen was at Birmingham New Street.

Obviously it had to be an XC service which was packed to the roof (longest route in the UK, 4 cars naturally), the platform was many people deep and yet the escalators down were continuing to drive people down as the platform wasn't visible from the top. Someone eventually had to stop the downward escalator to prevent a crush.

Euston has the benefit that it's visible what's going on and is all on one level. Where there's two levels or restricted visibility it definitely needs proactive management.

 

[Wolfie]

Euston is definitely a trample risk at times but in a slightly different aspect the least safe situation I've personally seen was at Birmingham New Street.

Obviously it had to be an XC service which was packed to the roof (longest route in the UK, 4 cars naturally), the platform was many people deep and yet the escalators down were continuing to drive people down as the platform wasn't visible from the top. Someone eventually had to stop the downward escalator to prevent a crush.

Euston has the benefit that it's visible what's going on and is all on one level. Where there's two levels or restricted visibility it definitely needs proactive management.

The problem with stopping the escalators at New Street is how do you know, except for the two extreme platforms obviously, that those going down don't want the service on the other side of the island platforms. I saw exactly that coming through there today.

 

[occone]

The problem with stopping the escalators at New Street is how do you know, except for the two extreme platforms obviously, that those going down don't want the service on the other side of the island platforms. I saw exactly that coming through there today.

Good point, in my case the other platform was closed off for some reason with big boards, so it may well have been a rare case.

I suppose normally people would spill onto the other platform and just hope that doesn't fill up too

 

[VauxhallandI]

The thing is on a plane in First Class you get served Champagne in your seat which is very large, spacious and private. The Service there promotes that perk being useful as the on-board experience can be extraordinary

Add to that, in European business class front and second rows you won’t have anywhere to stow your baggage if you don’t get on first

 

[cool110]

Good point, in my case the other platform was closed off for some reason with big boards, so it may well have been a rare case.

That would've been for the roof repairs, with each pair of lines being closed on a staggered basis.

 

[talldave]

This just in.....

Avanti email offering early bird boarding at Euston.

 

[Kite159]

As a 'perk' of booking direct and giving your mobile number (so will likely be spammed with 'helpful' texts saying "sorry your train is delayed by 2 minutes and is now expected at XX;Y2")

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I mean, that's despicable isn't it? The problem with the "Euston rush" has been well known for years and is easily fixable for all users, and now Avanti try to spin a solution to it as a sales tactic?

 

[Watershed]

This just in.....

Avanti email offering esrly bird boarding at Euston.

So instead of fixing the underlying issue - which is caused entirely through their incompetent and entirely unnecessary boarding "process" - they'd rather monetise it. Stooping to new lows...

 

[43066]

This just in.....

Avanti email offering early bird boarding at Euston.

What’s to stop anyone using real time trains etc. to find out exactly the same information? Unless they’re going to physically check whether people are members of Club Avanti before allowing them onto the platform.

 

[island]

So instead of fixing the underlying issue - which is caused entirely through their incompetent and entirely unnecessary boarding "process" - they'd rather monetise it. Stooping to new lows...

I agree that it’s not the right solution, but Club Avanti is free and so they’re not “monetising” anything.

 

[Adam Williams]

Has anyone tried this?

Are Avanti actually sending the notifications out before the Darwin platform suppression flag is removed?

 

[CarrotPie]

What’s to stop anyone using real time trains etc. to find out exactly the same information?

Praying that nobody knows about it (which won't work), I assume?

 

[londonmidland]

How long before you’re escorted back to the concourse or told the platform isn’t open yet by revenue? They’ll probably just tell you to wait until it has been publicly advertised.

I can’t see this working at all and can see many arguments and confrontations happening.

 

[greeny11]

There were a couple of people at the gate ready to board the 09.43 to Liverpool when I arrived this morning (using RTT as my guide), and they appeared to have an Avanti message on their phones. We weren't told to return to the concourse, maybe because it was only a couple of minutes before boarding started anyway.

 

[NLC1072]

I just use real time trains, get my seat and bag stowed ready for the masses to board after. A couple of times I've been told off by train crew, but I usually travel heavy and on a ticket where if I miss the train, I'm not going anywhere after it because that's all the connections ruined (sail rail).

 

[poffle]

I agree that it’s not the right solution, but Club Avanti is free and so they’re not “monetising” anything.

I've got those SMSes from Avanti telling me which platform the train departs from. That was for etickets I had bought through the Avanti App. Didn't need to be Club Avanti.

The SMS seemed to come a minute or two ahead of the public display although by the time I arrived at platform the train has usually been on display at the platform.

( Just looked back and Virgin used to send those texts as well.)

 

[Watershed]

I agree that it’s not the right solution, but Club Avanti is free and so they’re not “monetising” anything.

It's free but the intention to clear in wanting people to book via Avanti, so that they get to keep the sales commission themselves. I'd still consider that monetising as they are doing something that results in financial benefit to themselves, even if the passenger isn't directly paying for it.

 

[43066]

I've got those SMSes from Avanti telling me which platform the train departs from. That was for etickets I had bought through the Avanti App. Didn't need to be Club Avanti.

The SMS seemed to come a minute or two ahead of the public display although by the time I arrived at platform the train has usually been on display at the platform.

( Just looked back and Virgin used to send those texts as well.)

As I alluded to in post #201, presumably you can view this information before the texts are sent on Real Time Trains, or even the NRE website which will be more familiar to the general public, unless they’ve found some way of suppressing this?