Davros is Back !!! (Doctor Who)

[backontrack]

We realise that, but...

 

[cf111]

I liked Clara, she was a bit annoying at times but I'd rather that than having someone totally besotted by the Doctor and a bit 2 dimensional. I think her arc had run its course though.

 

[Heinz57]

I liked Clara. She was indapentant, funny and not afraid to speak her mind.

Also very pretty

 

[Jonny]

I wonder if they have killed the character off to make a point about actors going to ITV (Jenna Coleman is lined up to play Queen Victoria). Even so, if they do want to bring Clara back, there's always the matrix slice...

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I wonder if they have killed the character off to make a point about actors going to ITV (Jenna Coleman is lined up to play Queen Victoria). Even so, if they do want to bring Clara back, there's always the matrix slice...

I think that is impossible as Clara can not remember who War is and certainly never mentions it in series 8 or 9

 

[TheNewNo2]

I'm still confused by Clara's timeline.

In Day of the Doctor, she arrives at UNIT HQ, and it's stated by Kate Lethbridge-Stewart that she had been there before, and Clara looks confused about it. As best I can tell, that was never shown.

As for best companion - Rory Pond.

 

[miami]

Clara wasn't a full time companion - had a job and everything. Easy enough for unit to pick her up on a Friday night and take her to the tower then wipe her memory.

The actress was going to leave last Christmas and indeed it was written as her final trip - the bit where she was old was to be the end.

First human companion from the 20th century to die permanently while travelling. Rory and Amy died after a long happily ever after life. River wasn't from the 20th century (and death doesn't seem to have stopped her). Donna was memory wiped. Martha married Micky. Rose went off to the alternate universe with TenB. Adric wasn't human, Peri married Brian Blessed, Ian and Barbera got married, and many of the others were mentioned doing good things (Ace runs a charity, Tegan campaigns for aboriginal rights etc), and of course Sarah Jane Smith's story goes on, forever.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Clara wasn't a full time companion - had a job and everything. Easy enough for unit to pick her up on a Friday night and take her to the tower then wipe her memory.

The actress was going to leave last Christmas and indeed it was written as her final trip - the bit where she was old was to be the end.

First human companion from the 20th century to die permanently while travelling. Rory and Amy died after a long happily ever after life. River wasn't from the 20th century (and death doesn't seem to have stopped her). Donna was memory wiped. Martha married Micky. Rose went off to the alternate universe with TenB. Adric wasn't human, Peri married Brian Blessed, Ian and Barbera got married, and many of the others were mentioned doing good things (Ace runs a charity, Tegan campaigns for aboriginal rights etc), and of course Sarah Jane Smith's story goes on, forever.

If I am right, the canonical death list of companions (canon taken as mentioned on screen or seen on a display on screen and not the books) should read as:

• Katarina
• Sara Kingdom
• Adric
• Lucie Miller (although only in books, she was mentioned during an official episode and is included in the list)
• K9 MkIII
• Captain Jack Harkness / Face of Boe
• River Song / Melody Pond
• General Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart
• Surgeon Commander Harry Sullivan
• Sarah-Jane Smith
• Clara Oswald

NOTE: Susan is presumed to be alive as stated on screen, Romana is on Gallifrey and trapped, Jenny (Doctor's daughter by cloning) is mentioned to be alive and well

 

[Rhydgaled]

A possible plot mistake with Clara's death, she was talking earlier in the episode about buying time, then when she discovers she's going to die they are in the room with a stasis pod thingy. I thought the doctor would at any moment have a brainwave and shove Clara in the stasis pod to buy time to find a way to save her life.

 

[Butts]

There is no way seven years can be permitted to elapse (as was the case last time) before Davros appears in Doctor Who again.

My idea is that he teams up with his cousin "Cybros" who is of a similar physiology apart from being Cyberman orientated and confined to a similar "bath chair" to Davros.

Together they plan a joint Dalek/Cyberman invasion of Earth in conjunction with The Master.

Unfortunately Davros falls out with Cybros and exterminates him , leading the Daleks to one again utter those immortal words in relation to exterminating Cybermen....

"This is not war , this is pest control"

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

A possible plot mistake with Clara's death, she was talking earlier in the episode about buying time, then when she discovers she's going to die they are in the room with a stasis pod thingy. I thought the doctor would at any moment have a brainwave and shove Clara in the stasis pod to buy time to find a way to save her life.

The Raven/Shade could get her through whatever barriers that the Doctor could throw up using time, so that would not really have worked. Listening to the episode again, the Cloister Bell gently sounded at the beginning - seems Sexy knew about what was to happen

 

[miami]

So Daigon Alley last week, Azkaban and a dementor this week.

 

[Trainfan344]

Loved the jump scares in this weeks episode!

 

[backontrack]

The Raven/Shade could get her through whatever barriers that the Doctor could throw up using time, so that would not really have worked. Listening to the episode again, the Cloister Bell gently sounded at the beginning - seems Sexy knew about what was to happen

Who's 'Sexy'?

 

[krus_aragon]

Who's 'Sexy'?

The Doctor's pet name for the Tardis.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Who's 'Sexy'?

The Doctor's pet name for the Tardis.

Yep - a lot of fans just call the TARDIS either what she is or "Sexy"

 

[Rhydgaled]

The Raven/Shade could get her through whatever barriers that the Doctor could throw up using time

It could clearly get through any barrier, but if it went into the stasis pod wouldn't it get frozen in time too? And the countdown tattoo on Clara's neck should also be frozen if she was in stasis.

As for the latest episode, I'm confused. The robot corpse thingy seemed to know if the doctor was telling the truth, and he confirms the hybrid Time-Lord/Dalek exists, but later he says it is himself and he isn't half-dalek. One of those must be a lie. Maybe all will become clear on Saturday.

 

[miami]

But he is half human

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It could clearly get through any barrier, but if it went into the stasis pod wouldn't it get frozen in time too? And the countdown tattoo on Clara's neck should also be frozen if she was in stasis.

I'm inclined to agree. That does seem to be a significant plot hole. The Doctor also missed a couple of other possible options: Why not have Rigsy or Ashildr accept the tattoo. Is it possible that by Rigsy taking it back, the contract is restored so Ashildr can then remove that tattoo? Of if Ashildr herself could be persuaded to take it - since she is basically unkillable, presumably no harm would come to her - she'd 'die' and then come back to life.

And on this point: How can Clara break the contract between Ashildr and the Quantum Shade? Don't you have to have actually been one of the signatories on a contract to break it?

All these probably could be explained away without too much difficulty, but the fact that none of them occurred to the Doctor to at least ask Ashildr about seems odd.

As for the latest episode, I'm confused. The robot corpse thingy seemed to know if the doctor was telling the truth, and he confirms the hybrid Time-Lord/Dalek exists, but later he says it is himself and he isn't half-dalek. One of those must be a lie. Maybe all will become clear on Saturday.

Lots of confusion there. I assume the truth thingy has something to do with that all the action was taking place inside the Doctor's confession dial, which possibly is somehow linked to the Doctor's mind. That may also be why the Doctor said he recognized the Veil the first time he saw it. Hopefully, the next episode will clarify why someone (the Timelords?) wanted the Doctor inside the confession dial in the first place. Other things that strike me are:

1. Given that the Veil was so slow-moving, why didn't the Doctor just dodge it and run away every time it got to him? And did it never occur to the Doctor to try to find a way of killing the Veil, or at least trapping it somehow? Surely he could at the very least have tried hitting it over the head with the spade to see what happened.
2. Where were the stars that the Doctor saw? Were they in the confession dial too? (In which case, how did the dial know to move them?) Or were they in the 'real' Universe - which begs the question, where was the dial?
3. The plot hinges on the Doctor making exactly the same decisions every time the events were re-run. That requires making certain assumptions about the Universe which arguably are not consistent with most understandings of quantum mechanics. And besides, since some of the visual cues the Doctor sees change over time (the stars, for example) that should slightly modify his thinking.
4. Someone appears to have invented a perpetual motion machine. (Where did the energy used to keep creating new copies of the Doctor come from?)
5. And a very philosophical question... Is the Doctor the same Doctor now?

 

[Rhydgaled]

if Ashildr herself could be persuaded to take it - since she is basically unkillable, presumably no harm would come to her - she'd 'die' and then come back to life.

She's not Captain Jack. I seem to recall in the episode when she was a highwayman the Doctor said something about her not being industructable, she just doesn't age and heals injuries quickly.

All these probably could be explained away without too much difficulty, but the fact that none of them occurred to the Doctor to at least ask Ashildr about seems odd.

Yes, that is probably the most odd thing about that scene. The Doctor is supposed to be really inteligent and normally comes up with ideas.

where was the dial?

Good question.

3. The plot hinges on the Doctor making exactly the same decisions every time the events were re-run. That requires making certain assumptions about the Universe which arguably are not consistent with most understandings of quantum mechanics. And besides, since some of the visual cues the Doctor sees change over time (the stars, for example) that should slightly modify his thinking.

And, the rooms resetting doesn't seem to reset the Veil's knowledge, otherwise the Doctor could just keep reusing the same confession and never run out of confessions. Unless it is the fact this specific copy of the doctor has never confessed these items it still stops the Veil.

Where did the energy used to keep creating new copies of the Doctor come from?

I thought that was explained in the episode. He said he needs something to burn to produce the energy, and I think the thing he burns is himself, which is why his hand disappears after writing in the sand.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I thought that was explained in the episode. He said he needs something to burn to produce the energy, and I think the thing he burns is himself, which is why his hand disappears after writing in the sand.

But the 'himself' that he burned originally got all its energy from the previous round of the Doctor burning himself, and during that time he's been running around, using up energy etc. So somewhere some energy must be getting added for free. (Or another way of looking at it: All those skulls are presumably part of the remains of the older versions of the Doctor. So they weren't there the first time round. Where did the energy to create them come from? I think the sand is also intended to be the burnt remains of the previous Doctors - in which case the same question applies to that.)

 

[miami]

But the 'himself' that he burned originally got all its energy from the previous round of the Doctor burning himself, and during that time he's been running around, using up energy etc. So somewhere some energy must be getting added for free. (Or another way of looking at it: All those skulls are presumably part of the remains of the older versions of the Doctor. So they weren't there the first time round. Where did the energy to create them come from? I think the sand is also intended to be the burnt remains of the previous Doctors - in which case the same question applies to that.)

Given that a skull is say 5kg, and the doctor lived for say 2 days (we saw him eating for example), and the whole thing was 4 billion years, you'd need abaout 200*4billion = 800 billion, call it 1E12 skulls, or 1E13kg of matter. Lets say that the entire environment is somehow a small slice of space captured using timelord tardis technology to store a planet in a confession dial -- a bit like Hermoinie's magic bag. You'd need to capture a small asteroid and put it inside the dial. Eros, for example, is 6E15kg, so 600 times more mass than you'd need to create that many skulls, which would be more than enough to power any artificial gravity, atmospheric scrubbers, etc.

That ignores being powered by exotic energy from time vortexes and other timey wimey hand waving. There are approximatly half a million known asteroids, let along trans-neptune objects, in our solar system alone.

We saw how many skulls there were after 7000 years, after 250,000 times longer the skulls should dwarf the castle, unless of course the core of the planet was being replaced by skulls.

Of course this is another example of the bootstrap paradox (there were no skulls the first time he went through).

 

[Tracked]

And, the rooms resetting doesn't seem to reset the Veil's knowledge, otherwise the Doctor could just keep reusing the same confession and never run out of confessions. Unless it is the fact this specific copy of the doctor has never confessed these items it still stops the Veil.

They just didn't show the time he confessed to eating the presidents' last Rolo, or what he did in the broom cupboard at the timelord christmas party ...


Good ep though, in a series that maybe hasn't been that good, might have to rewatch it though, they could repeat it on Friday & Sunday nights like they used to

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

or what he did in the broom cupboard at the timelord christmas party ...(

We don't know what he did, but there is a reason he legged it with Susan

 

[Trainfan344]

Who's 'Sexy'?

The Doctor's pet name for the Tardis.

Technically it's the TARDIS since it's an acronym... :P

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Given that a skull is say 5kg, and the doctor lived for say 2 days (we saw him eating for example), and the whole thing was 4 billion years, you'd need abaout 200*4billion = 800 billion, call it 1E12 skulls, or 1E13kg of matter. Lets say that the entire environment is somehow a small slice of space captured using timelord tardis technology to store a planet in a confession dial -- a bit like Hermoinie's magic bag. You'd need to capture a small asteroid and put it inside the dial. Eros, for example, is 6E15kg, so 600 times more mass than you'd need to create that many skulls, which would be more than enough to power any artificial gravity, atmospheric scrubbers, etc.

That ignores being powered by exotic energy from time vortexes and other timey wimey hand waving. There are approximatly half a million known asteroids, let along trans-neptune objects, in our solar system alone.

We saw how many skulls there were after 7000 years, after 250,000 times longer the skulls should dwarf the castle, unless of course the core of the planet was being replaced by skulls.

Of course this is another example of the bootstrap paradox (there were no skulls the first time he went through).

Several of your figures are valid headcodes:

1E12 0731 Uckfield to London Bridge

1E13 0755 London Bridge to Uckfield

1E13 0755 Inverness to London Kings Cross

 

[ainsworth74]

Good ep though, in a series that maybe hasn't been that good, might have to rewatch it though, they could repeat it on Friday & Sunday nights like they used to

Must admit I have to disagree here, this to me has been the best series we've seen a while!

 

[miami]

What's a repeat? Do people still watch tv like in the 1930s? At the very least you'd have it on a pvr even if you weren't using iplayer

 

[Oswyntail]

We don't know what he did, but there is a reason he legged it with Susan

His Grand-daughter

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

His Grand-daughter

Yep - we know they we're exiled from Gallifrey, so the quest remains why this was.

besides, the original plan was for Susan to be something more then his Granddaughter