December 2022 Timetable Changes

[Techniquest]

Yes it’s very close to Constables famous area for painting & used as a railhead for quite a large area.

Thanks So definitely the other person suggesting (from the looks of it) that Manningtree doesn't need 2 ICs an hour is wrong. Absolutely warranted.

 

[dk1]

Thanks So definitely the other person suggesting (from the looks of it) that Manningtree doesn't need 2 ICs an hour is wrong. Absolutely warranted.

It’s a difficult one. Perhaps the more stoppers the better. Many years ago the local user group was very vocal & afraid of losing their off-peak Inter-City calls.

 

[86246]

Yes it’s very close to Constables famous area for painting & used as a railhead for quite a large area.

Yes, anyone living in the south of Ipswich are potentially using Manningtree as a quieter and perhaps quicker alternative for driving away after completing their rail journey.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I notice it’s only passenger changes which have been mentioned so far for the Dec 22 change.

One to the big changes for freight is the Mendips Aggregates moving out of Acton Yard.

 

[Kite159]

Yes, anyone living in the south of Ipswich are potentially using Manningtree as a quieter and perhaps quicker alternative for driving away after completing their rail journey.

Is there much of a fare difference as well?
with Manningtree being former NSE where the network railcard is also valid to bring down the cost of fares.

 

[Alfie1014]

Connections to the branch occur only hourly, and with the Ipswich service as an ‘additional’, there is no need for a Manningtree call every 30 minutes.

The same applies to Stowmarket. Three local services every two hours (two-hourly Peterborough and hourly Cambridge) means that only needs an hourly call on the grounds that connections can be made.

Colchester is an odd one. I’d say half-hourly is entirely correct, but at the same time it has an array of suitable services to London and if you were able to extend the Cambridge service round there I’d actually call that a ‘win’. If you make sure the calling patterns of the legacy Great Eastern electric units are a bit better, aka providing an additional ‘fast’ every hour (decelerate the Ipswich and the Colchester Town, massively accelerate the Clacton) and you can probably argue for only an hourly Norwich service, assuming there’s another two an hour to Ipswich (Cambridge and legacy Eastern terminator).

Chelmsford is an obvious one not to bother with. Stratford I’d say now should be half-hourly, not least because of the masses of connections it offers.

So perhaps something from Liverpool Street in the order of:

- XX:00 Stratford, Colchester, Ipswich, Diss, Norwich.

- XX:03 Stratford, Romford, Shenfield, Ingatestone, Chelmsford, Hatfield Peverel, Witham, Kelvedon, Marks Tey, Colchester, Manningtree (now pretty much caught by the Norwich, meaning connection to Harwich but also a connection for Colchester punters onto the Norwich), Ipswich.

- XX:14 Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Witham, Colchester, stations to Clacton.

- XX:17 Stratford, Shenfield, stations to Southend.

- XX:30 Stratford, Manningtree (connection guaranteed to Harwich), Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich.

- XX:33 Stratford, Romford, Shenfield, Ingatestone, Chelmsford, Hatfield Peverel, Witham, stations to Braintree.

- XX:37 Stratford, Shenfield, stations to Southend.

- XX:44 Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Witham, Kelvedon, Marks Tey, Colchester, Colchester Town, stations to Walton on the Naze (hopefully then caught by the Clacton after making the smaller stops and therefore a sub-20 minute connection at Walton).

- XX:57 Stratford, Shenfield, stations to Southend.

That allows freight to leave in a healthy gap between, for example, the XX:03 - XX:14, XX:17 - XX:30, and XX:44 - XX:57 eastbound from Stratford, and if you build the timetable backwards into London you get the same result. If you can actually work on a parallel move over platforms 10 and 10a three times an hour the timetable will be very resilient, and there’s lots of regulating / pathing stops available. Ilford eastbound using the slow lines, Shenfield London-bound, Chelmsford eastbound, Witham, Marks Tey London-bound and Colchester. Bar London Gateway traffic almost entirely from the Great Eastern (or have an open 45mph path between Channelsea and Woodgrange Park every hour both ways) and you’re probably sorted.

One problem with this is that all the Colchester stops are in one half hour and then nothing for 30 mins and Colchester is now the largest settlement on the route at nearly 200,000 population, closely followed by Chelmsford, then Norwich and lastly Ipswich, though of course they all act as railheads for their wider areas. Also politically with Chelmsford now a city and Colchester soon to become one any reduction in the InterCity calls will no doubt be strongly resisted.

That said I doubt we will get a major recast on the route until Beaulieu opens in 2026. It will be interesting to see how that will impact on travelling patterns on the route, way back in the mists of time a big concern of the then operator was the railheading to Beaulieu up the A12 from further out impacting on revenue. That said due to funding constraints the new station is only to have around 500 parking spaces from opening and the building of planned multi story car park has been deferred.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Is there much of a fare difference as well?
with Manningtree being former NSE where the network railcard is also valid to bring down the cost of fares.

There was an article in one of the "quality" papers last weekend , extolling the virtue of potential commuter towns - and "Old"Felixstowe was mentioned , but interestingly they suggested not using the branch line or even driving into Ipswich for trains , - but driving to Manningtree for the London service . Not one I would have thought of to be honest.

 

[30907]

There was an article in one of the "quality" papers last weekend , extolling the virtue of potential commuter towns - and "Old"Felixstowe was mentioned , but interestingly they suggested not using the branch line or even driving into Ipswich for trains , - but driving to Manningtree for the London service . Not one I would have thought of to be honest.

The A14 goes south of Ipswich and over the Orwell bridge.

 

[tel]

One to the big changes for freight is the Mendips Aggregates moving out of Acton Yard.

OK hadn't heard this, where are they supposed to be ending up then?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The A14 goes south of Ipswich and over the Orwell bridge.

About 35 mins - yes , I worked at Ipswich in the last century and much of the material for the the Orwell Bridge came in by rail to what was then Ipswich Lower Yard....(OT I know !)

 

[4-SUB 4732]

OK hadn't heard this, where are they supposed to be ending up then?

Probably a combination of Hanwell Bridge Loop, Wembley Receptions and the like. Freightliner are trying to save cash.

 

[RollingStock19]

When is the Dec timetable usually made public?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

OK hadn't heard this, where are they supposed to be ending up then?

I guess they’ll work through to other yards in London such as Willesden/Wembley? Freightliner have been trying to reduce use of DB infrastructure since taking over the contracts, due to the high charges being levied by their competitor. Similarly use of Westbury yard has reduced, in favour of using the old cement sidings at Heywood Road to run round etc.

 

[The Planner]

When is the Dec timetable usually made public?

A little while yet, still operator offer responses to deal with.

 

[Killingworth]

When is the Dec timetable usually made public?

Northern have told rail user groups to expect a briefing in September. By which time it will probably have been available on RTT for several weeks!

 

[NewClee153]

A little while yet, still operator offer responses to deal with.

Still time for some of the *cough* ridiculous *cough* planned changes, particularly on the stour valley to be revised then?

 

[The Planner]

Still time for some of the *cough* ridiculous *cough* planned changes, particularly on the stour valley to be revised then?

They won't be changing.

 

[NewClee153]

They won't be changing.

Fantastic! I look forward to having to change trains to get to Birmingham International after having a direct service for years

 

[The Planner]

Fantastic! I look forward to having to change trains to get to Birmingham International after having a direct service for years

What service have you lost?

 

[NewClee153]

What service have you lost?

The TfW services between Birmingham International and Mid/North Wales that will no longer be calling at Smethwick Galton Bridge from December, leaving no direct services to Birmingham International.

In the future the Birmingham to Liverpool services will omit Smethwick Galton Bridge, vice Dudley Port

 

[ChrisDY10]

The TfW services between Birmingham International and Mid/North Wales that will no longer be calling at Smethwick Galton Bridge from December, leaving no direct services to Birmingham International.

In the future the Birmingham to Liverpool services will omit Smethwick Galton Bridge, vice Dudley Port

I think there will be some significant upset from Stakeholders on the Stourbridge line as the connection from Galton Bridge to Birmingham International is currently very popular with people accessing the airport from this route. Galton Bridge has been a real success story in the number of people interchanging between trains. Sad to see so many connections proposed to disappear.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is the Stansted Express planned to return to a 4tph frequency or is it permanently half-hourly now?

 

[NewClee153]

I think there will be some significant upset from Stakeholders on the Stourbridge line as the connection from Galton Bridge to Birmingham International is currently very popular with people accessing the airport from this route. Galton Bridge has been a real success story in the number of people interchanging between trains. Sad to see so many connections proposed to disappear.

I know. They were my first port of call when I heard about the changes

 

[dk1]

Is the Stansted Express planned to return to a 4tph frequency or is it permanently half-hourly now?

It is an aspiration & becoming more & more needed with some decent passenger loadings once again. The reliability & availability of 745s is another story. Class 720 substitutions here been made recently so that maybe the way forward.

 

[Jurg]

I think there will be some significant upset from Stakeholders on the Stourbridge line as the connection from Galton Bridge to Birmingham International is currently very popular with people accessing the airport from this route. Galton Bridge has been a real success story in the number of people interchanging between trains. Sad to see so many connections proposed to disappear.

It's certainly been useful to me before when I've travelled between Coventry and Stourbridge / Kidderminster, to do two simple changes at International and Galton Bridge rather than messing around in central Birmingham.

The numbers are probably tiny compared to those already using New Street, but it does seem quite counterintuitive with the £billions being sought for Midlands Rail Hub, to be pushing more passengers to interchange at New Street in the short-medium term.

 

[trundlewagon]

Couldn't tell you if they're travelling beyond Wolvo or not, but always seems to be a lot getting on/off heading in that direction as well.

I assume another service (the Shrewsbury stopper?) will be picking up the stop heading in that direction at least?

 

[Goldfish62]

I had an online Meet the Manager session with SWR earlier.

They confirmed that they want to introduce the timetable as consulted on in 2021 (which is a complete overhaul) in December 2022. The timetables are all drafted, but they've been waiting for the go-ahead from DfT for ages and time is quickly running out.

 

[infobleep]

I had an online Meet the Manager session with SWR earlier.

They confirmed that they want to introduce the timetable as consulted on in 2021 (which is a complete overhaul) in December 2022. The timetables are all drafted, but they've been waiting for the go-ahead from DfT for ages and time is quickly running out.

Was any indication of the timetable given in 2021? I don't remember it being so.

I noticed that there are two services an hour from London Waterloo to Alton from 07:00 until 18:53 then it drops to 1 an hour. From Alton to Waterloo it is two an hour from 06:00 to 20:00. Is this indicative of more people travelling during the morning and day and less in the evening?

In contrast, Waterloo to Haslemere had 3 trains an hour until 21:45 and between 17:00 and 20;00 it increased to 4

Can anything be read onto these frequencies or are they just a product of how the existing time has been made to work, given fewer trains are running within the confines of the existing timetable?

 

[Goldfish62]

Was any indication of the timetable given in 2021? I don't remember it being so.

I noticed that there are two services an hour from London Waterloo to Alton from 07:00 until 18:53 then it drops to 1 an hour. From Alton to Waterloo it is two an hour from 06:00 to 20:00. Is this indicative of more people travelling during the morning and day and less in the evening?

In contrast, Waterloo to Haslemere had 3 trains an hour until 21:45 and between 17:00 and 20;00 it increased to 4

Can anything be read onto these frequencies or are they just a product of how the existing time has been made to work, given fewer trains are running within the confines of the existing timetable?

The timetables were consulted on. Here, again, is the link:

Train Timetable | South Western Railway

Our timetables can be downloaded direct to your computer or mobile phone, giving you easy access to the information wherever you are.

www.southwesternrailway.com

In partnership with Network Rail and the Department for Transport, we have launched a stakeholder consultation on proposals for our December 2022 timetable. This is a strategic review of future service levels across our network.

We are acutely aware that in the past we have responded to ever growing customer demand by increasing the number of trains on the SWR network, often at the expense of the performance and reliability of our services. But, as we emerge from the Covid-19 pandemic, we have a unique opportunity to build back a better railway for the future.

Since March 2020, we have been supported by the Government to run a reduced service that has kept key workers moving. This period has shown that our performance improves significantly when we are able to run fewer trains while still meeting customer demand for our services.

Even though passengers are now returning to the railways, all the forecasts suggest they will not return to pre-Covid levels for the foreseeable future. The December 2022 timetable is our opportunity to plan for a long-term timetable that will retain the reliability improvements we’ve made, meet the forecast demand and provide value for the taxpayer while balancing other local and national priorities.

We are considering a specification for services rather than specific trains or a timetable. It is for that reason that we are consulting with a defined set of organisations, which have a strategic or representative role rather than the wider community. This includes all MPs and district and county councillors across our network, as well as passenger groups amongst others.

You can find out more about our plans by reviewing our consultation document (PDF, 2MB), which sets out the context to our approach, details of the proposed specification of services, and more information about the consultation. If you have any questions, you can email us at [email protected].

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

From a selfish point of view, this infuriates me. I really struggle getting a reasonable connection to an Alton line train at Waterloo to take me home in the evenings now, whereas I have little need to take to take one northbound at that time, and when I have done the train has been far quieter than those travelling south.