Delay Repay claims rejected

robbeech

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I had a similar, if not the same, issue with EMR and Scotrail, but having experienced it once I was ready to resubmit the required information immediately.
It’s rife. It’s a generic fob off excuse that’s they’re all using. The whole thing is a con. I assume it’ll save a 7 figure sum over the course of a year.
Hoping that someone will simply forget about the claim and the complaint file is marked in such a way it doesn't affect any reporting figures to the DFT/ORR (or whoever it is TOCs have to report complaint figures to)
Going silent and hoping it goes away is other common trick.

I’ve got 2 claims in with Northern at the moment. (Well only 1 now as one is settled). One is a missed connection 2 hour delay where I’ve requested compensation (it’s £120) and the other was a 30 minute standard delay here I requested a free ticket.
I’ve had acknowledgments for both. The free ticket one was submitted second, but has been accepted and sent out. The one where they have to pay has not been responded to as yet despite if going in earlier. I assume they’ve dropped it and not contacted me hoping that I won’t chase it or hoping that if I do chase it they can fob me off with a 28 day limit excuse.
 
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trainophile

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I always put a flag against the confirmation email in case they pull the “over 28 days” stunt when they eventually get around to responding, so I can find my proof fairly easily.
 

ServerHoster

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Got a delay repay denied by Northern yesterday:

Preston to Northwich (split ticketing at Mouldsworth)

Preston-Crewe cancelled so I got an earlier train. The earlier train I got Preston-Crewe was meant to go fast from Warrington but they put Crewe on as an extra stop due to the cancelled train. The earlier train was about 20 mins late so roughly the same time as my original train anyway. Made my connection perfectly ok.
Crewe-Chester slightly late but still 5 mins before my original connection.
Chester-Northwich cancelled, next one an hour later.

Northern denied it, said it was Avanti's fault.
 

stew

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A couple of years ago we had disruption on a journey from Edinburgh to Manchester. I can’t remember the exact details but my TPE train was cancelled on a Sunday afternoon (having been shown as delayed until 20 mins after departure).
I seem to remember being advised to buy a new ticket for another service (West Coast(?) and then change). From memory it was bought from the East Coast ran ticket desks. The train manager advised this wasn’t necessary having bought the ticket already (that train was subsequently delayed too).

I lodged a complaint with TPE who rejected my request for a refund for my original ticket. This went backwards and forwards several times with them blaming another TOC.

I ended up emailing all three TOC’s customer service teams along with their press departments suggesting they for once communicate with each other and decide who compensates me. I said they needed to do this within 28 days and any future involvement from me would be charged at £80/hour (min of 2 hours charge).

Over the next two weeks I received 3 refund cheques from each of the TOC’s!

presumably they didn’t communicate with each other and just sent me cheques of varying amounts from £102 - £135
 

3rd rail land

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A couple of years ago we had disruption on a journey from Edinburgh to Manchester. I can’t remember the exact details but my TPE train was cancelled on a Sunday afternoon (having been shown as delayed until 20 mins after departure).
I seem to remember being advised to buy a new ticket for another service (West Coast(?) and then change). From memory it was bought from the East Coast ran ticket desks. The train manager advised this wasn’t necessary having bought the ticket already (that train was subsequently delayed too).

I lodged a complaint with TPE who rejected my request for a refund for my original ticket. This went backwards and forwards several times with them blaming another TOC.

I ended up emailing all three TOC’s customer service teams along with their press departments suggesting they for once communicate with each other and decide who compensates me. I said they needed to do this within 28 days and any future involvement from me would be charged at £80/hour (min of 2 hours charge).

Over the next two weeks I received 3 refund cheques from each of the TOC’s!

presumably they didn’t communicate with each other and just sent me cheques of varying amounts from £102 - £135
Seeing as you can't actually bill a TOC for the time you have spent dealing with a delay repay claim this was presumably an empty threat? Surely they know this and would ignore any such threat.
Did you cash all the cheques you were sent?
 

stew

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Seeing as you can't actually bill a TOC for the time you have spent dealing with a delay repay claim this was presumably an empty threat? Surely they know this and would ignore any such threat.
Did you cash all the cheques you were sent?
Who/where does it actually say you “can’t bill a TOC for time spent dealing with a delay repay claim”? A person can bill them but they may ignore it.

In this case the threat (empty or not) of an invoice for my time seemed to encourage all 3 TOCs to send me cheques (very promptly too). They certainly responded considerably quicker than when I was requesting simple refunds.

From memory, I cashed one cheque (the first received). I held the other two and contacted/explained to those TOCs asking what they wanted me to do with them. They both responded and said they were a goodwill gesture for “inconvenience caused and having to contact them repeatedly”. I was surprised that they both said a very similar thing (maybe they had finally communicated with each other)
 

AlterEgo

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At most TOCs there’s an escalation team that deals with that sort of correspondence. Highly surprising East Coast, who did nothing except sell the ticket they were asked to sell, sent the poster a cheque for the full amount.
 

stew

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At most TOCs there’s an escalation team that deals with that sort of correspondence. Highly surprising East Coast, who did nothing except sell the ticket they were asked to sell, sent the poster a cheque for the full amount.
Yep, and the lady at the East Coast ticket office actually sold me a split ticket rather than an EDI-MAN single as it was cheaper. From memory, EC only got involved as TPE said the issue was with them. Despite the train which was cancelled being TPE
 

robbeech

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Got a delay repay denied by Northern yesterday:

Preston to Northwich (split ticketing at Mouldsworth)

Preston-Crewe cancelled so I got an earlier train. The earlier train I got Preston-Crewe was meant to go fast from Warrington but they put Crewe on as an extra stop due to the cancelled train. The earlier train was about 20 mins late so roughly the same time as my original train anyway. Made my connection perfectly ok.
Crewe-Chester slightly late but still 5 mins before my original connection.
Chester-Northwich cancelled, next one an hour later.

Northern denied it, said it was Avanti's fault.

Just one spat out of the random excuse generator. Hopefully you’ll appeal, most people caught up in the same disruption won’t have claimed in the first place, and most that did and have been similarly rejected will not bother to appeal.

A couple of years ago we had disruption on a journey from Edinburgh to Manchester. I can’t remember the exact details but my TPE train was cancelled on a Sunday afternoon (having been shown as delayed until 20 mins after departure).
I seem to remember being advised to buy a new ticket for another service (West Coast(?) and then change). From memory it was bought from the East Coast ran ticket desks. The train manager advised this wasn’t necessary having bought the ticket already (that train was subsequently delayed too).

I lodged a complaint with TPE who rejected my request for a refund for my original ticket. This went backwards and forwards several times with them blaming another TOC.

I ended up emailing all three TOC’s customer service teams along with their press departments suggesting they for once communicate with each other and decide who compensates me. I said they needed to do this within 28 days and any future involvement from me would be charged at £80/hour (min of 2 hours charge).

Over the next two weeks I received 3 refund cheques from each of the TOC’s!

presumably they didn’t communicate with each other and just sent me cheques of varying amounts from £102 - £135

There’s still time for one of those operators to threaten to take you to court for fraud if you don’t give them £1000 so you might not have heard the last of it.
 

stew

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There’s still time for one of those operators to threaten to take you to court for fraud if you don’t give them £1000 so you might not have heard the last of it.

I’d be happy to go to court and detail my experience of all three TOC’s inability to communicate and understand simple correspondence. I’d also be happy to tell them how much grief I received from my wife for booking one of those “stupid advance tickets because I wanted a bargain”!
 

MotCO

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I’d be happy to go to court and detail my experience of all three TOC’s inability to communicate and understand simple correspondence. I’d also be happy to tell them how much grief I received from my wife for booking one of those “stupid advance tickets because I wanted a bargain”!

But if two TOCs said keep the cheques due to all the hassle, then you're in the clear.
 

Wolfie

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The issue is as it always is these operators know full well they’re in the wrong, they know they’re acting ‘in bad faith’ as you put it so they won’t allow it to get to court as they don’t want to lose and set a precedent. They’ll pay out on the threat of court, or at the very least when they see proceedings have started so you’ll never get your costs back but you should get the compensation you are entitled to.

The vile hypocritical nature we are seeing from (if we search this forum enough) EVERY operator is perfectly clear. Pay when challenged is something the railway hates passengers doing, but it’s something it does thousands of times a week itself.
Lower courts don't set a precedent. Any settlement once Court papers have been served should include the filing costs and interest. Always, always claim the latter....
 

Wolfie

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Hoping that someone will simply forget about the claim and the complaint file is marked in such a way it doesn't affect any reporting figures to the DFT/ORR (or whoever it is TOCs have to report complaint figures to)
Writing to your MP asking them to pursue with SofS DfT is a wonderful way to completely screw that little game. As a serving Civil Servant you better believe that any contractor who causes us to have lots of Parliamentary correspondence is massively on the crap list.
 

Kite159

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Writing to your MP asking them to pursue with SofS DfT is a wonderful way to completely screw that little game. As a serving Civil Servant you better believe that any contractor who causes us to have lots of Parliamentary correspondence is massively on the crap list.
Unless you have a useless MP who will simply ignore your letter or write back with something which ignores the point you made.
 

allotments

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Avanti delay repay showing an unacceptable level of incompetence again, wasting my time...

Journey from Slade Green to Bangor (Gwynedd) via St Pancras and Euston with split ticket leg to Crewe using a LNWR only ticket. Delayed 1 hour due to slow running Avanti service in bad weather which terminated early at Llandudno Junction due to points failure at Bangor.

Initial claim rejected due to not supplying tickets for entire journey, when the leg from St Pancras to Euston was completed by bicycle, for which a ticket isn't required. All other tickets supplied so that must be an issue for them.

They just don't understand how real world journeys are made.

Appealed.
 

alistairlees

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I know lots of posters believe in some sort of conspiracy theory where TOCs / DfT have decided to reject many (valid) claims in order to save money. I'm sorry to disappoint, but there is no conspiracy. It's just training / knowledge issuers, combined with a stupidly complex system, and many other issues too; as well as, of course, the bias that is inevitable on the forums (negative experiences are far more likely to be reported than positive ones; forum members are far more likely to have complex itineraries than most passengers).
 

robbeech

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I know lots of posters believe in some sort of conspiracy theory where TOCs / DfT have decided to reject many (valid) claims in order to save money. I'm sorry to disappoint, but there is no conspiracy. It's just training / knowledge issuers, combined with a stupidly complex system, and many other issues too; as well as, of course, the bias that is inevitable on the forums (negative experiences are far more likely to be reported than positive ones; forum members are far more likely to have complex itineraries than most passengers).
I agree.

The issue is that this ongoing, systemic problem is well documented and has gone on for years, and the operators have chosen to do nothing about it. It’s well known that they read these forums and it’s pretty certain that they’ll sit and read this post and yet given the option of fixing the problem or ignoring it and continuing to keep money that belongs to passengers we know which one they’ll do.

In the interest of fairness and openness, I mentioned the other day that I had an open claim with Northern for a high value ticket and presumed that they would reject it for one reason or another. Infact they have accepted it first time so a positive results here. It’s taken over a month so I presume it has had a manual review, in part due to a replacement bus.
 
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AlterEgo

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Avanti delay repay showing an unacceptable level of incompetence again, wasting my time...

Journey from Slade Green to Bangor (Gwynedd) via St Pancras and Euston with split ticket leg to Crewe using a LNWR only ticket. Delayed 1 hour due to slow running Avanti service in bad weather which terminated early at Llandudno Junction due to points failure at Bangor.

Initial claim rejected due to not supplying tickets for entire journey, when the leg from St Pancras to Euston was completed by bicycle, for which a ticket isn't required.
This may be a gap in my knowledge, but if you have a ticket to St Pancras and one from Euston is that not technically fouling your split ticket, as no proper connection is made? I thought one of the tickets would need to be issued to Euston Zone 1, even where an interchange is walked. Is Euston to St Pancras an OSI?
 

island

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This may be a gap in my knowledge, but if you have a ticket to St Pancras and one from Euston is that not technically fouling your split ticket, as no proper connection is made? I thought one of the tickets would need to be issued to Euston Zone 1, even where an interchange is walked. Is Euston to St Pancras an OSI?
Euston to St Pancras and v/v is indeed an OSI, although the concept of OSIs only applies to journeys paid for by Oyster and contactless.

It does not appear to be a recognised National Rail walking interchange, however. As such, it would seem to me that DelayRepay would be payable based on the ticket(s) from Euston onward.
 
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Watershed

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Euston to St Pancras and v/v is indeed an OSI, although the concept of OSIs only applies to journeys paid for by Oyster and contactless.

It does not appear to be a recognised National Rail walking interchange, however. As such, it would seem to me that DelayRepay would be payable based on the ticket(s) from Euston onward.
Given that the possibility of making your own way between the stations is envisaged by the data feeds (between 00:01-05:29, journey planners are told to use a "transfer" taking 15 mins), I struggle to see why walking/cycling between stations inherently breaks your travelling into two journeys.

I agree that where no fixed link is recognised by the industry, that case is harder to make - even where stations are close by (for example Rice Lane and Walton).
 

alistairlees

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Euston to St Pancras and v/v is indeed an OSI, although the concept of OSIs only applies to journeys paid for by Oyster and contactless.

It does not appear to be a recognised National Rail walking interchange, however. As such, it would seem to me that DelayRepay would be payable based on the ticket(s) from Euston onward.
Provided minimum interchange times are met, then I see no problem with a Delay Repay claim for the entirety of the journey.
 

allotments

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This may be a gap in my knowledge, but if you have a ticket to St Pancras and one from Euston is that not technically fouling your split ticket, as no proper connection is made? I thought one of the tickets would need to be issued to Euston Zone 1, even where an interchange is walked. Is Euston to St Pancras an OSI?
For the record my ticket Slade Green to St Pancras was paid by Oyster.

Can't do tube to Euston easily by bike and it would be slower. Complete journey was Slade Green to Bangor.

I've not had any delay repay claims rejected eventually, including cross London transfers by bike which for me are faster than tube.

Platform to platform by bike

EUS-STP 8 minutes
EUS-KGX 8 minutes
EUS-LBG 20 minutes
 
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AlterEgo

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Provided minimum interchange times are met, then I see no problem with a Delay Repay claim for the entirety of the journey.
OK, but the passenger does not have a ticket for his entire journey, that’s the academic point under discussion.

Of course it’s unnecessarily hostile to reject on such a technicality, and doing so would always be bad service, but you can really only claim on split tickets if you have tickets for the entire journey.
 

allotments

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Given that the possibility of making your own way between the stations is envisaged by the data feeds (between 00:01-05:29, journey planners are told to use a "transfer" taking 15 mins), I struggle to see why walking/cycling between stations inherently breaks your travelling into two journeys.
Indeed National Rail Enquuries show that a ticket may not be required between Euston and St Pancras. Screenshot shows that travel plan.

My frustration with Avanti delay repay boils over for several reasons...

...when their website Captcha fails greyed out for no obvious reason to the user during complex journey data entry. This appeared to be due to a session time out requiring login again - a process which simultaneously deleted all data already entered for the new claim.

...when the delay repay site patently cannot cope with more than one ticket format and assumes all tickets are single or all are return. My journey 3 formats: Oyster single + 2 paper returns + m-ticket single.

...when the customer knows from experience they won't cope with this and expects claim to be rejected first time every time

...when the customer bends over backwards to present all tickets in one file because the website won't accept multiple files before a timeout recurs

...when the customer emails customer resolutions to report these problems but gets no reply

...when the response to initial claim is rejection but the precise reason for this is left for the customer to figure out for themselves despite the fact that a human noticed there are split tickets in the claim (in my case the only ticket that could be missing is the bike ride transfer)
 

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Deltic1961

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As I posted on a previous thread one Inverness to Aberdeen service is generally always late, missing the connection to Edinburgh and making people wait 50 minutes. Even Scotrail staff haven't a clue what they are doing as one journey the conductor will apologise and tell people to claim delay repay, then the very next day passengers will be told tough titty as it's not actually a connecting service at all (which it is).

Now after the December timetable change they have added 3 minutes on to the arriving service to make it non-connecting, so people still have the 50 minute wait if it doesn't get in exactly on time.
 

Ivor

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I had return fares to South Wales purchased from Southern but involved three TOCs on the journeys....Southern, GWR & TFW.

Southern have emailed declining me stating the outbound delay was down to GWR & the return TFW & they have forwarded my claims to both GWR & TFW who would respond within 20 days (it’s now 30 & nothing)

I would have thought like any purchase my ‘contract’ is with the seller (Southern) irrespective other TOCs involved within the journey so shouldn’t Southern be responsible for the Delay Repay? Or am I wrong?
 

Haywain

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I had return fares to South Wales purchased from Southern but involved three TOCs on the journeys....Southern, GWR & TFW.

Southern have emailed declining me stating the outbound delay was down to GWR & the return TFW & they have forwarded my claims to both GWR & TFW who would respond within 20 days (it’s now 30 & nothing)

I would have thought like any purchase my ‘contract’ is with the seller (Southern) irrespective other TOCs involved within the journey so shouldn’t Southern be responsible for the Delay Repay? Or am I wrong?
You are wrong. Delay Repay is claimed from the TOC which caused the delay to your journey.
 

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