Back in the old BR days who knows what kind of incidents they were covering up.
And more to the point that incidents like these were so common (daily!) that people were dealing with them very regularly.
Back in the old BR days who knows what kind of incidents they were covering up.
Why it's a good thing that safety has vastily improved since then.And more to the point that incidents like these were so common (daily!) that people were dealing with them very regularly.
Not as bad as now, wrong kind of this and thatOften without route knowledge.
Thankfully, knowing where you are going, what speed the line is, and which route indicator you can take is seen as somewhat of a priority.
They would have phoned the local to see if anyone was available and generally sober. Someone may have been called in, got paid 12hrs for it.
Sometimes the Guard or the Secondman would drive.
Thankfully
Hopefully never.
BR was not as great as people like to remember. They were notoriously bad with delays, cancellations, and trains had a terrible reputation.
Well people got to work most days. What happened between Bournemouth and Weymouth that day, nothing moved due to an incident 100 miles away. As for the steam i was being sarcastic.I do not know what period of BR days you are referring to but it certainly wasn't my experience. Yes, there was broader route knowledge because staff tended to work a wider range of services but excursions to places staff didn't normally go would require crew changes or route conductors, which were much more readily available then than now for various reasons.
Yes, a Traction Inspector could act as a route conductor but so could any driver who signed the route.
Where TIs came into their own was where NO drivers signed a route (yes, it could happen - for example on a line which was out of use but had a weedkiller visit once a year).
And steam is unlikely to return ...
Back in the day, staff locally would have set up a service. Station Supervisors liaising with Train Crew Supervisors and the Signallers.Not as bad as now, wrong kind of this and that
Well people got to work most days. What happened between Bournemouth and Weymouth that day, nothing moved due to an incident 100 miles away. As for the steam i was being sarcastic.
It has also been stated several times here that the WICC (Control) was ‘severely short staffed’, impacting the extent of any contingency that was able to be put together. Save for an outbreak of infectious disease in the office, you might wonder as to how a major London commuter TOC finds itself in that position.Back in the day, staff locally would have set up a service. Station Supervisors liaising with Train Crew Supervisors and the Signallers.
These days there isn't the knowledge, experience or authority for anything like that to happen. Control cannot physically deal with everything everywhere, so things simply don't happen anymore
Save for an outbreak of infectious disease in the office, you might wonder as to how a major London commuter TOC finds itself in that position.
Indeed. No one single reason. A culmination of various different things all combining togetherIt has also been stated several times here that the WICC (Control) was ‘severely short staffed’, impacting the extent of any contingency that was able to be put together. Save for an outbreak of infectious disease in the office, you might wonder as to how a major London commuter TOC finds itself in that position.
And therein lies the problem. Incidents will happen; the quality of the operation can be measured in how it recovers service after an incident.Back in the day, staff locally would have set up a service. Station Supervisors liaising with Train Crew Supervisors and the Signallers.
These days there isn't the knowledge, experience or authority for anything like that to happen. Control cannot physically deal with everything everywhere, so things simply don't happen anymore
But that shows lack of contingency planning, if the staff who deal with it, do not have contingency methods of getting to work. Or a back up location they can also operate from if main location is not reachable.Might a number of Control staff have been delayed getting to work by the very incident they were needed to deal with?!!
Contingency plans should be pre-prepared thats the point of them and they certainly used to exist for all reasonable scenarios. So yesterdays incident should have had an off the shelf response.
But that shows lack of contingency planning, if the staff who deal with it, do not have contingency methods of getting to work. Or a back up location they can also operate from if main location is not reachable.
so unless control means physically pushing buttons or moving levers & switches, fairly weak argument.
Not in the slightest; Railway Control work entails far more than making phone calls, not least constant dialogue between staff within the office. Doing the job alone, remotely, is a non-starter.
A Control is a very complicated environment. Its not like a call centre where you're dealing with one person on the end of a phone at a time. You're often having to have multiple conversations at the same time with several different personsBut that shows lack of contingency planning, if the staff who deal with it, do not have contingency methods of getting to work. Or a back up location they can also operate from if main location is not reachable.
We live in a world where phones to give instructions operate almost anywhere, and track plans can be called up on laptop computers just about anywhere also, so unless control means physically pushing buttons or moving levers & switches, fairly weak argument.
So just like a call centre then!A Control is a very complicated environment. Its not like a call centre where you're dealing with one person on the end of a phone at a time. You're often having to have multiple conversations at the same time with several different persons
But I notice whenever I call a call centre these days they're working from home, so obviously not!So just like a call centre then!
Absolutely, and the easy option is taken - to stop the job and possibly provide buses, but probably not. Privatisation incentives were to pare to the bone and have no spare anything to provide that resilience. Efficiency does necessarily equate to the bare minimum.And therein lies the problem. Incidents will happen; the quality of the operation can be measured in how it recovers service after an incident.
There will be many valid and detailed reasons why recovery didn't happen; they will not matter to the paying punters whose days were disrupted by the poor service offered, who will just see the cancellations and delays that they suffered.
Unfortunately, the only viable conclusion is that today's railway lacks resiliency.
So get more staff
Possibly because it's not that easy to instantly recruit staff with the necessary operating experience and knowledge....and, unfortunately the current set-up of the railway doesn't provide such a training ground for the numbers of people involved or interested?Brilliant. Wonder why nobody's thought of that already?
Doubt you'd find that many people willing to do the job, even if the money were availableSo get more staff
Could you elaborate on what this role involves?I do wonder whether this makes a strong argument for an AOM type role to help take up some of the pressure, similar to what they have on GWR.
Exactly....it's extremely intensive and stressful when the brown stuff hits the fan - and requires a huge knowledge of all the different aspects of railway operations, from track geography to train and crew diagramming and everything else in between.Doubt you'd find that many people willing to do the job, even if the money were available
Could you elaborate on what this role involves?
The AOM role isn't necessarily going to help, and they work differently at different locations - can't speak for what they do in @JN114 's part of the GW, but where I covered and worked, we had them at Bristol TM and Exeter.It stands for Area Operations Manager. From what I can tell they incorporate some of the “Train Crew supervisor” roles from BR times. Essentially they are responsible for the smooth operations in their area, looking ahead at crew and stock displacement. They can also (with permission from control) arrange shuttle services. @JN114 may be able to expand further
I disagree. Many a time I don't have fast enough mobile data if any at all to do any work.But that shows lack of contingency planning, if the staff who deal with it, do not have contingency methods of getting to work. Or a back up location they can also operate from if main location is not reachable.
We live in a world where phones to give instructions operate almost anywhere, and track plans can be called up on laptop computers just about anywhere also, so unless control means physically pushing buttons or moving levers & switches, fairly weak argument.
There was shuttle services between Guildford and Woking.It stands for Area Operations Manager. From what I can tell they incorporate some of the “Train Crew supervisor” roles from BR times. Essentially they are responsible for the smooth operations in their area, looking ahead at crew and stock displacement. They can also (with permission from control) arrange shuttle services. @JN114 may be able to expand further
Possibly because it's not that easy to instantly recruit staff with the necessary operating experience and knowledge....and, unfortunately the current set-up of the railway doesn't provide such a training ground for the numbers of people involved or interested?
It’s more than that, though. There is a pervasive “can’t do” attitude problem.Unfortunately, the only viable conclusion is that today's railway lacks resiliency.
Also for times when nothing is going on some might complain they’re overstaffedWell yes, exactly and that was rather my point. It's not really as simple as 'get more staff'.
At 05.50 on Monday 4th March 2024, a passenger train struck scrap rail travelling on the Up Fast line on the four track railway at Walton-on-Thames.
This caused the front bogie of the train to partially derail. No passengers on the train were injured. Following the event, all lines were blocked to allow the safe evacuation of passengers. The derailment caused significant damage to the infrastructure. A few minutes before this incident, a train reported striking an object (at the time reported as a possible branch or piece of wood) on the adjacent Up Slow line.
This was the third train in the Up direction following weekend engineering works, and the first on the Up Fast line. The works undertaken at the weekend included tamping, ballasting and scrap clearance. The location where the train struck the scrap rail was on a rail road access point (RRAP). This had been used at the weekend as part of a track renewal follow up. The scrap recovery was completed 26 hours prior to the event.
The incident is under investigation by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) and Network Rail. While the investigation takes place, it is important to remember the requirements for lineside materials. Always keep your work area tidy and neve
Hmm - looks like a piece of rail was dropped/left as the clear-up was completed (in the dark?) and then got pushed from its resting place to another spot on the up fast by an up slow line working. I find the last reminder rather mild and bland considering the very high likelihood of a major accident arising from slack working of this sort. Frankly, I am very surprised this hasn't happened before, given the vast amount of scrap rail left lying around.Safety bulletin issued by Network Rail
At 05.50 on Monday 4th March 2024, a passenger train struck scrap rail travelling on the Up Fast line on the four track railway at Walton-on-Thames.
This caused the front bogie of the train to partially derail. No passengers on the train were injured. Following the event, all lines were blocked to allow the safe evacuation of passengers. The derailment caused significant damage to the infrastructure. A few minutes before this incident, a train reported striking an object (at the time reported as a possible branch or piece of wood) on the adjacent Up Slow line.
This was the third train in the Up direction following weekend engineering works, and the first on the Up Fast line. The works undertaken at the weekend included tamping, ballasting and scrap clearance. The location where the train struck the scrap rail was on a rail road access point (RRAP). This had been used at the weekend as part of a track renewal follow up. The scrap recovery was completed 26 hours prior to the event.
The incident is under investigation by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) and Network Rail. While the investigation takes place, it is important to remember the requirements for lineside materials. Always keep your work area tidy and neve
It's not actually the end of the bulletin. It does continue.I find the last reminder rather mild and bland considering the very high likelihood of a major accident arising from slack working of this sort.