DfT Feb 25th (2014) meeting on Hull-Selby electrification

[IanXC]

The Humber LEP have recently published their Local Growth fund proposals, which includes a few interesting nuggets:

Planning status
- A planning application may be required for any new electric sub station if it cannot be located on Network Rail land but it now appears that sites on Network Rail land can be found.
- The rest of the works do not need planning permission.

Feasibility work
- Design and feasibility studies completed and have been checked by consultants on behalf of DfT.

Delivery plan
- Start construction - autumn 2014
- Completion - December 2016

Activity in 2015/16
- Work could start before April 2015 subject to DfT approval and funding. State aid Being investigated. Unlikely to be an issue as completed scheme will be taken over by Network Rail and will be open to others to use.

Full details are on p24 of: http://www.humberlep.org/assets/uploads/user/strategies/Appendix 2 - LGF Investments ammended.pdf

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Humber LEP have recently published their Local Growth fund proposals, which includes a few interesting nuggets:
Full details are on p24 of: http://www.humberlep.org/assets/uploads/user/strategies/Appendix 2 - LGF Investments ammended.pdf

I'm not sure I believe the dates - but who knows what private project management would achieve.
Amey are not exactly covering themselves with glory on the current GW project either.
I suspect this scheme will be the subject of a budget announcement in November, along with other priority lines in the DfT Task Force list.

 

[IanXC]

I'm not sure I believe the dates - but who knows what private project management would achieve.
Amey are not exactly covering themselves with glory on the current GW project either.
I suspect this scheme will be the subject of a budget announcement in November, along with other priority lines in the DfT Task Force list.

I have seen surveyors out and about on the route - for instance scrabbling around just outside the platform fence line at Howden - whether its related who knows.

I also take some comfort from the fact that the local MPs have gone quiet - theres a lot of local pressure for the project to be finished for 2017 in time for the City of Culture (as compared to the A63 works which will be mid flow...).

 

[westv]

Surely it's just a matter of bunging up a few poles and stringing some wires between them? Two weeks max?

 

[Class 170101]

Hopefully the Selby works are taking electrification into account otherwise there is going to be another closure of this structure to trains to attach OLE to it.

 

[lincolnshire]

Hopefully the Selby works are taking electrification into account otherwise there is going to be another closure of this structure to trains to attach OLE to it.

You will be lucky if they get the works planned to be done in the 6 weeks let alone been ready for electrification.

The work on Goole Bridge in 2010 was planned for 6 weeks took a year to complete, trains was running after 6 weeks but a lot of the work that should have been done in the 6 weeks went on for months after.

You only know what you are up against when you get started on the job as was the case at Goole.

 

[IanXC]

Today's Local Growth Fund announcement includes:

There is also £7.5m, conditional on the outcome of the DfT funded feasibility study as well as an agreed business case, towards the electrification of the Hull to Selby line. The LEP and Hull City Council will also have the facility to access a discounted loan of circa £20m, which would help to reduce the cost of the project.

http://www.humberlep.org/news?view=128

Which concludes the public sector funding required for the project. My understanding is that so long as Network Rail bring forward signalling works (not sure if this is agreed or not) and so long as GRIP3 concludes without any major issues arising, that the project is now almost certain to proceed.

 

[pemma]

I'm not sure I believe the dates - but who knows what private project management would achieve.

I'm not either considering a document released today says

Rail electrification – support for plans to electrify the rail route between the East Coast Rail Line and Hull via Selby. This is a conditional allocation subject to the outcome of the current Department for Transport (DfT) funded feasibility study, agreement on a funding package and funding mechanism for the project, and DfT confirmation of at least medium VfM through the Grip
4 study.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/327598/18_Humber_Gowth_Deal.pdf

 

[IanXC]

Managing Director of First Hull Trains, Will Dunnett, is naturally extremely pleased with this confirmation and said: “I am delighted, that as part of a very detailed application and business plan, made on your behalf to the Humber Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP), we have been awarded a £7.5m grant towards our ambitious project to electrify the route from Selby to Hull.”

“When the project is confirmed, we will then enter discussions with the Office of the Rail Regulator to agree a long term track access arrangement. With this confirmed, we can then conclude our ongoing negotiations, with electric train unit manufacturers. Whenever new trains are introduced to a service, this has an immediate positive impact on passenger numbers and we should see further visitors and businesses coming to our region.”

http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-u...s-power-ahead-in-partnership-with-humber-lep/

I hesitate to post yet another article about this, but I think it does add to the current state of play. Interesting comment on negotiations with EMU manufacturers - adds to the recent story in RAIL fleshing out the reported pros and cons to HT of various options.

 

[IanXC]

I'm reliably informed that Hull Trains now believe that electrification to Hull won't be completed until 2020.

 

[joeykins82]

If Leeds to York & Selby is due by December 2018 I suppose that it isn't that big a wait if Hull is done for the May 2020 timetable change.

 

[CdBrux]

I'm reliably informed that Hull Trains now believe that electrification to Hull won't be completed until 2020.

Is that due to a lack of resources (people / equipment) and a knock on effect from the delays in the current projects or down to money?

 

[Class 170101]

I think I read that Hull Trains got a short track access contract and as a result of this contract does this mean that the Hull Trains wiring scheme is now dead?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm reliably informed that Hull Trains now believe that electrification to Hull won't be completed until 2020.

Well that's a shame as it would have been good if it could have been completed for Hull being city of culture (stop sniggering in the back!).

 

[59CosG95]

Well-today's the day. Anyone know when the meeting's taking place?

 

[ainsworth74]

The day was last year...

 

[59CosG95]

*Gets coat*

 

[ainsworth74]

*hands coat and calls taxi*

Happens to the best of us

 

[Class 170101]

On a serious point any news or rail rumours on when we might hear more news about this scheme?

 

[Starmill]

Well-today's the day. Anyone know when the meeting's taking place?

The day was last year...

This epitomises perfectly this scheme. Thank you. Thank you so much

 

[snowball]

There's an article about the possible privately-funded electrification of Selby to Hull in the new (March 205) issue of Modern Railways, pp. 51-53.

 

[IrishDave]

Buried on page 73 of today's budget and not mentioned in the Chancellor's speech:

2.37 Selby to Hull electrification – The government will, subject to an acceptable contribution from Hull Trains and subject to a business case, complete Selby to Hull electrification by the end of Network Rail’s Control Period 6 (2019 to 2024).

Is that the first time it's been definite, or is this nothing new?

 

[jimm]

Buried on page 73 of today's budget and not mentioned in the Chancellor's speech:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HM Treasury, Budget 2015
2.37 Selby to Hull electrification – The government will, subject to an acceptable contribution from Hull Trains and subject to a business case, complete Selby to Hull electrification by the end of Network Rail’s Control Period 6 (2019 to 2024).


Is that the first time it's been definite, or is this nothing new?

It's new, but not exactly what First Group and the people of Hull want to hear though, as their stated aim is to get it done as soon as possible, not at some point in the next nine years.

 

[IrishDave]

It's new, but not exactly what First Group and the people of Hull want to hear though, as their stated aim is to get it done as soon as possible, not at some point in the next nine years.

Thanks - I couldn't figure out if it was a rehash of something old or not. To be fair, if the main Trans-Pennine electrification is indeed delayed until 2021, then it sounds like the government are just asking it to be tacked on to that, surely?

 

[pemma]

Thanks - I couldn't figure out if it was a rehash of something old or not. To be fair, if the main Trans-Pennine electrification is indeed delayed until 2021, then it sounds like the government are just asking it to be tacked on to that, surely?

TPE bidders have told the following regarding electrification:

The Department requires a Franchisee whose approach to rolling stock leasing
and operations will be resilient to, and will minimise the level of additional cost
arising from, changes resulting from the completion of north TransPennine route
electrification. In particular, the Department requires a Franchisee whose rolling
stock leases will incorporate the necessary flexibility to allow the Franchisee to
release back to its owner (with effect from any date after 31 December 2020, and
subject to six months’ notice) any rolling stock that can reasonably be expected to
become surplus to the Franchisee’s requirements upon completion of
electrification schemes that will, or are likely to, be completed within the Franchise
Term. For the purpose of identifying the maximum size of fleet that might become
surplus, Bidders are to assume that the only requirements in the TSR that cannot
be operated with electric traction would be for services operating on the south
TransPennine route between Manchester Airport, Sheffield and Cleethorpes,
though depending on future circumstances additional diesel stock may need to be
retained for operation of passenger services on routes which are not electrified
(e.g. for services to Hull, Middlesbrough and/or Scarborough).

 

[jimm]

Thanks - I couldn't figure out if it was a rehash of something old or not. To be fair, if the main Trans-Pennine electrification is indeed delayed until 2021, then it sounds like the government are just asking it to be tacked on to that, surely?

I don't doubt that, but if First can raise funds by other means than waiting on the Government - which seems to have been their intention from the start of the process - it may still happen earlier than TPE wires. I suppose they will now have to go away and talk to their backers and do some sums to decide how to proceed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't doubt that, but if First can raise funds by other means than waiting on the Government - which seems to have been their intention from the start of the process - it may still happen earlier than TPE wires. I suppose they will now have to go away and talk to their backers and do some sums to decide how to proceed.

Whatever the desire to do it quickly, it may be because NR hasn't got the resource even to support a 3rd party electrification design/plan for the route.

 

[jimm]

Whatever the desire to do it quickly, it may be because NR hasn't got the resource even to support a 3rd party electrification design/plan for the route.

Though on the evidence of Network Rail's recent efforts, one could argue a bit of third party involvement may be no bad thing...

 

[Class 170101]

Whatever the desire to do it quickly, it may be because NR hasn't got the resource even to support a 3rd party electrification design/plan for the route.

Would be necessary to have an NR supplier?