Dogs on trains?

[LSWR Cavalier]

Surely a horse is too big and too hazardous to travel in a passenger carriage, so would have to travel in a carriage designed to house horses, the railway equivalent of a horse box.

The spooking thing is what makes me nervous when cycling on country lanes and encountering horse riders. I've had one or two oncoming horses spook on me. The solution is to get off the bike and stand up, look like a non-threatening human, and talk to the rider.

When cycling I ring my bell a couple of times so the horse can locate me, and I communicate with the rider, slow down and keep awayl
Apparently horses dislike low recumbent cycles which they perceive as hunting animals

 

[alistairlees]

It used to be the case that dogs required tickets. This became the "Animals and Accompanying Articles" (AAA) ticket (or was it a discount?), which was removed from the data a year or so ago (I don't think it had been used for a while).

 

[py_megapixel]

When cycling I ring my bell a couple of times so the horse can locate me, and I communicate with the rider, slow down and keep awayl
Apparently horses dislike low recumbent cycles which they perceive as hunting animals

I always assumed that ringing the bell was bad because it was a sudden unexpected sound - however I'm no expert in this subject!

 

[6Gman]

In the days when we had guard's vans, the dog would be muzzled up and put in a travel cage there.

They weren't.

Accompanied dogs could be taken into the passenger saloon, subject to:

a) being clean
b) behaving
c) staying on the floor.

I have accompanied a dog from Redruth to Crewe (many years ago now). No problem.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I always assumed that ringing the bell was bad because it was a sudden unexpected sound - however I'm no expert in this subject!

I ring it quietly from some way off
I see horses and riders as friends when cycling, quite possibly the horse can sense that I am friendly/harmless

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I always assumed that ringing the bell was bad because it was a sudden unexpected sound - however I'm no expert in this subject!

Most competent equestrians would be wary about which horses they decide to take on hacks. At our yard, we have a horse who spooks very easily, so he is rarely taken out hacking. Horses which are used for road work generally tend to have a better temperament / tend to spook less.

I think that it's much better when cyclists alert the horse (and rider) before overtaking, by ringing the bell or even a friendly greeting - preferably from some way off, as @LSWR Cavalier says.

This way, the horse is aware that you're there, and is less likely to spook when you do emerge. Same reason we keep a hand on the horse if we have to walk behind one - so that he knows where we are, which ultimately lessens the chance of a kick, for whatever reason. Nothing worse than unexpectedly entering a horse's space and causing a scare!

 

[mcmad]

I am arguing that dogs should be required to have tickets. Not that they are required to have tickets. I know that currently they are allowed to travel for free, but I would support changing that.

Presumably you also think bikes should have to have tickets and be charged since they also take up space ?

 

[py_megapixel]

Presumably you also think bikes should have to have tickets and be charged since they also take up space ?

Yes. I would have no problem with that.

 

[Darandio]

Yes. I would have no problem with that.

Luggage? Children under 5? They all take up space.

 

[py_megapixel]

Luggage? Children under 5? They all take up space.

Luggage is a little different as putting cases on a train is more space efficient than passengers, as they can be crammed together!

As for children under 5 - they can make travel free for whatever the equivalent of a 5 year old or less dog is...

 

[Steddenm]

Surely a horse is too big and too hazardous to travel in a passenger carriage, so would have to travel in a carriage designed to house horses, the railway equivalent of a horse box.

The spooking thing is what makes me nervous when cycling on country lanes and encountering horse riders. I've had one or two oncoming horses spook on me. The solution is to get off the bike and stand up, look like a non-threatening human, and talk to the rider.

You'd be surprised...

UK's first guide horse learns how to board a train before moving to London

Digby, a miniature horse is being paired with a new master after his previous owner decided he was too large

www.mirror.co.uk

Britain's first guide horse is getting used to railway stations because he will eventually need to know how to board a Tube train in busy London.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

You are misunderstanding my point.

I am arguing that dogs should be required to have tickets. Not that they are required to have tickets. I know that currently they are allowed to travel for free, but I would support changing that.

Feel free to argue it. This forum won't change a thing. You may need to argue with someone who has power of change.

 

[yorkie]

Feel free to argue it.

Agreed but I'll also add that if anyone wishes to make such a proposal, it needs to be posted in Speculative Ideas (feel free to link to it from here though). If @py_megapixel wishes to make a thread in the appropriate section, I'll be happy to reply to it...

 

[prod_pep]

I have no issue with well-behaved dogs being on trains, but dogs on seats is something I can't stand. I've witnessed it on a few occasions across the country and it really is disgusting. It goes hand-in-hand with a minority of irresponsible, selfish owners who don't give a stuff about anyone else. Until your dog wipes its bottom and wears underwear, it really shouldn't be on a train seat.

 

[Energy]

they can make travel free for whatever the equivalent of a 5 year old or less dog is...

That would be an about 8 month old dog. A significant amount of people would just lie about the age their dog is if it is a small dog and a good chance that they won't know what they should have actually paid. =

 

[py_megapixel]

Feel free to argue it. This forum won't change a thing. You may need to argue with someone who has power of change.

As we're getting a bit speculative - which is largely my fault - I have at @yorkie's request created a new thread for discussion of what we think the rules should be.

https://railforums.co.uk/threads/should-the-railway-charge-to-carry-things-other-than-passengers-if-so-what-should-the-fares-be.208238/

 

[Howardh]

Dogs without leads, cats, birds and small animals must be carried in an enclosed basket, cage or pet carrier. It must be rigid and not open (to prevent escape) and the animal able to stand and lie down in comfort

Train Travel with Luggage | National Rail

You’re welcome to bring up to 3 items of luggage on the train, at no extra cost. Here’s everything you need to know about luggage on trains.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Oh dear, I've broken rail regulations, when I picked up the pigeon and carried it on my lap.

 

[gg1]

My worst nightmare is a smelly dog, (smelly humans are equally as bad).

Given the choice I'd rather have the pongy dog.

I've never encountered a dog so smelly it made me feel physically sick but have had the misfortune of sharing public transport with people who fall into that category a few times.

 

[thenorthern]

As others have mentioned you can normally bring a dog on as long as it's under control and well behaved.

Well behaved and under control though means to the standards of other passengers and staff not the standards of the owner. In simple terms dogs must be on a short lead at all times and they should not bark or jump at passengers. The owner may see their dog as "Friendly" but it's not up to them.

 

[RichT54]

Given the choice I'd rather have the pongy dog.

I've never encountered a dog so smelly it made me feel physically sick but have had the misfortune of sharing public transport with people who fall into that category a few times.

Several months ago I was sitting on a platform seat at Reading station when a woman with a dog came and sat at the other end. The instant dreadful smell of faeces was so strong that I immediately had to get up and move away. The woman seemed oblivious to any problem and was happily petting her dog. However, I don't know whether it was the dog or the woman that was the source of the smell. Fortunately they didn't get on the same train as me but, given how bad the smell was in the open air, I pity anyone that did end up the same carriage.

 

[Llandudno]

You are misunderstanding my point.

I am arguing that dogs should be required to have tickets. Not that they are required to have tickets. I know that currently they are allowed to travel for free, but I would support changing that.

Perhaps dogs should have Rover Tickets!

Mind you the Derbyshire Wayfarer child ticket can be used for a dog!
At £6.70 you would need to make quite a few bus journeys to make it worthwhile as dogs, quite rightly in my opinion are free on trains, and should be on buses as well!

 

[M7R]

Well they shouldn't take pets. What if every seat is taken, are you supposed to go and stand in a vestibule because the animal takes priority. What is the service is badly overcrowded and you cannot get to another coach?



But no allergy should require you to move seats or stand when on a train. I cant think of any other allergy that would genuinely require you to move on a train.

bloomin thing won’t quote the original post too about allergies and on my phone so it’s a pain but....

My partner has many allergies, and not juts intolerances like most people... she is allergic to dogs but mostly female ones due to their pheromones... however she can cope pretty well with pets so long as she has had her antihistamine... however she also has a nut allergy and mushrooms allergy... and if some one opens a bag of nuts in an enclosed space she knows! Not talking curl up and die knows but she starts getting itchy and comes out in hives etc so would have to move... it your that allergic to dogs then well don’t leave the house as it will be the dander you are intolerant to (I am slightly) and that is everywhere!

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Wow, didn't imagine this to provoke such a long discussion!

I'd imagine if a passenger has a severe allergy then the passenger comes before the dog, so long as the dog can reasonably be moved away.

I'm fine with dogs on trains so long as they're clean, off the seats, away from other passengers and well behaved, which is usually the case. The incident that provoked this was where passengers joining the train sat at a table which was already occupied by one person and left the dog at their feet underneath the table, which I thought was a bit off for a start, no-one should have to have your dog so close to them. Their dog was on a lead but was quite loud throughout the journey, it was an intercity train at night too so as you can imagine it wasn't exactly easy to rest onboard.

It's an awkward one though, there's no easy definition of what is or isn't ok. How much disruption or discomfort to other passengers is necessary for a dog to be removed?

 

[6Gman]

Wow, didn't imagine this to provoke such a long discussion!

I'd imagine if a passenger has a severe allergy then the passenger comes before the dog, so long as the dog can reasonably be moved away.

I'm fine with dogs on trains so long as they're clean, off the seats, away from other passengers and well behaved, which is usually the case. The incident that provoked this was where passengers joining the train sat at a table which was already occupied by one person and left the dog at their feet underneath the table, which I thought was a bit off for a start, no-one should have to have your dog so close to them. Their dog was on a lead but was quite loud throughout the journey, it was an intercity train at night too so as you can imagine it wasn't exactly easy to rest onboard.

It's an awkward one though, there's no easy definition of what is or isn't ok. How much disruption or discomfort to other passengers is necessary for a dog to be removed?

Discretion of the Train Manager.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Discretion of the Train Manager.

But then we're back at the start.....

It's an awkward one though, there's no easy definition of what is or isn't ok. How much disruption or discomfort to other passengers is necessary for a dog to be removed?

 

[Hadders]

Luggage is a little different as putting cases on a train is more space efficient than passengers, as they can be crammed together!

I suggest you give the Central Line a try in the peak. Passengers crammed together in such a way that wouldn't be allowed if it were transporting animals.

 

[USRailFan]

Here in Finland we have special ”pet carriages” where people travelling with pets have to travel. If you have a pet in a non-pet carriage, you’ll be transferred to the pet carriage.

That's the same in Norwegian trains. Back in the day it used to be the smokers' carriage...

 

[mcmad]

... where passengers joining the train sat at a table which was already occupied by one person and left the dog at their feet underneath the table, which I thought was a bit off for a start,

(a) surely under social distancing, they shouldn't have sat at an already occupied table?
(b) if the person and dog were already there, why should they have to move?

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

(a) surely under social distancing, they shouldn't have sat at an already occupied table?
(b) if the person and dog were already there, why should they have to move?

a) I agree entirely but seemingly it happened.
b) The people with the dog were the ones joining the train,

 

[mcmad]

a) I agree entirely but seemingly it happened.
b) The people with the dog were the ones joining the train,

ok, I misunderstood and thought the dog was already there. In that case the whole thing is a bit bizzare unless they already knew the person at the table.