Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

[Gloster]

I hope there will come a point where it will be clear that the swing voters and don’t knows will have moved to supporting the Democrats, and that the most moderate Republicans are likely to either follow them or abstain. At that point some of the wiser Republicans may feel that Trump is a liability and move to distance the party from him. The worry is that his supporters, who support him, rather than the party, might have got such a grip that they can’t be dislodged. And there will still be plenty who would vote Republican whatever, even if it was led by a lying, narcissistic, grifter. (“Whaddya mean? It is?”)

 

[najaB]

So I'm afraid that much as I would be delighted to see Trump get his come-uppance for his part in the killing of people during the White House riots, I can't see it happening any time soon, if ever.

Much like Al Capone went down for tax evasion, Trump has way too many civil and criminal cases pending to get away with everything.

 

[Gloster]

One should never underestimate the Trump fanclub’s ability to go lower. Fox News showed a picture, seemingly picked up off the Internet, of the judge who signed the order getting a foot massage from Ghislaine Maxwell. It is a photo of Jeffrey Epstein with the judge’s head crudely photoshopped on. Some rather feeble chitchat seems to have been used by Fox’s presenters to cover themselves, although most people will probably have been concentrating on the picture and missed the comments.

Source: The Independent via my yahoo e-mail news feed. Sorry, I can’t do a link.

 

[Busaholic]

One should never underestimate the Trump fanclub’s ability to go lower. Fox News showed a picture, seemingly picked up off the Internet, of the judge who signed the order getting a foot massage from Ghislaine Maxwell. It is a photo of Jeffrey Epstein with the judge’s head crudely photoshopped on. Some rather feeble chitchat seems to have been used by Fox’s presenters to cover themselves, although most people will probably have been concentrating on the picture and missed the comments.

Source: The Independent via my yahoo e-mail news feed. Sorry, I can’t do a link.

In view of some of the mentions of Trump's visits to Epstein's island that came up in testimony during Maxwell's recent trial, including a specific allegation against Trump that was never contradicted, he's flying by the seat of his pants as usual. I guess Trump reckoned that not too many people picked up on it. I have to admit I can't trace it now, which is interesting.

 

[Shrop]

In view of some of the mentions of Trump's visits to Epstein's island that came up in testimony during Maxwell's recent trial, including a specific allegation against Trump that was never contradicted, he's flying by the seat of his pants as usual. I guess Trump reckoned that not too many people picked up on it. I have to admit I can't trace it now, which is interesting.

Much as I dislike Trump, I've always had to admit that he's very clever, certainly much more so than bumbling Prince Andrew. And much as I don't approve of Andrew's dallyings with Virginia Giuffre, all the publicised "evidence" was that she was 17, looked very relaxed with him, and willingly benefitted from all manner of luxuries for her choice of lifestyle.
Okay, who knows what went on behind the scenes, but one might suspect that Trump has far, far more people employed to hide things than Andrew ever did.

 

[Strathclyder]

Much like Al Capone went down for tax evasion, Trump has way too many civil and criminal cases pending to get away with everything.

Indeed. I highly doubt he'll ever see the inside of a jail cell for trying to subvert democracy & stage a coup (if that ever does happen, I'll actually drink alcohol to celebrate), but at least one of those civil/criminal cases, likely the financial ones, will catch up to him and more of his flock of goonish gargoyles and bite them all squarely on the ***.

One should never underestimate the Trump fanclub’s ability to go lower. Fox News showed a picture, seemingly picked up off the Internet, of the judge who signed the order getting a foot massage from Ghislaine Maxwell. It is a photo of Jeffrey Epstein with the judge’s head crudely photoshopped on. Some rather feeble chitchat seems to have been used by Fox’s presenters to cover themselves, although most people will probably have been concentrating on the picture and missed the comments.

Source: The Independent via my yahoo e-mail news feed. Sorry, I can’t do a link.

They hit rock bottom a long time ago, so I'll never underestimate the depraved depths to which they'll stoop. Sure, it'll royally p*** me off as it would any sane/rational person, but underestimate it I will not.

 

[WatcherZero]

According to the WSJ FBI found 20 boxes containing 11 sets of documents during the raid, some marked Top Secret/SCI and some not to be removed from the building i.e. Eyes Only classification.

FBI Recovered 11 Sets of Classified Documents in Trump Search, Inventory Shows

Some of the documents recovered from the former president’s home were marked top secret and meant to be kept in special facilities, an inventory showed. Trump allies claim he declassified the documents.

www.wsj.com

FBI agents who searched former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home Monday removed 11 sets of classified documents, including some marked as top secret and meant to be only available in special government facilities, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Reported they contained nuclear weapon details and the the dossier on the French President as well as the file on Trumps pardon of Roger Stone in 2019 for Congressional Perjury when testifying about Russian involvement in the 2016 election. SCI classification means compartmentalized access only through approval, essentially even with the highest security clearance you still have to request permission to view them.
Break down:
1 Top Secret/SCI
4 Top Secret
3 Secret
3 Confidential

 

[Strathclyder]

Okay, who knows what went on behind the scenes, but one might suspect that Trump has far, far more people employed to hide things than Andrew ever did.

Only real problem with that is the people in question are often just as moronic and completely lacking in competence as he is. If they were even slightly competent, we wouldn't know half the things we do now in regards to Trump's catalouge of misdeeds.

According to the WSJ FBI found 20 boxes containing 11 sets of documents during the raid, some marked Top Secret and some not to be removed from the building i.e. Eyes Only classification.

FBI Recovered 11 Sets of Classified Documents in Trump Search, Inventory Shows

Some of the documents recovered from the former president’s home were marked top secret and meant to be kept in special facilities, an inventory showed. Trump allies claim he declassified the documents.

www.wsj.com

Reported they contained nuclear weapon details and the the dossier on the French President.

If the part about the nuclear weapon details turns out to indeed be the case and knowing how chummy Trump is with the world's despots, that should set off alarm bells everywhere (in a sane world at least). Yes, his scyophants are bleating that he had the authority to declassify them while in office, but we don't know that he actually did so.

One thing about the FBI search of Mara-Largo that most of the press and TV pundits seem to be getting consistently wrong is that it (Mara-Largo) officially isn't Trump's private residence that only he and his family (and staff) can use, it's one of his businesses as per an agreement he signed and club members frequent it daily. So on that token, having classified documents there at all is quantifiably worse than it would be if it were a private residence.

 

[Busaholic]

Much as I dislike Trump, I've always had to admit that he's very clever, certainly much more so than bumbling Prince Andrew. And much as I don't approve of Andrew's dallyings with Virginia Giuffre, all the publicised "evidence" was that she was 17, looked very relaxed with him, and willingly benefitted from all manner of luxuries for her choice of lifestyle

The allegation regarding Trump involved a girl who'd be considered under-age in the U.K. as well as the U.S.A. Your interpretation of Virginia Giuffre's involvement seems like it could have been taken from Maxwell's defence verbatim. The US court fundamentally disagreed.

 

[Shrop]

The allegation regarding Trump involved a girl who'd be considered under-age in the U.K. as well as the U.S.A.

It's been several years since this came to light, and somehow he's managed to evade closer scrutiny about it. What makes you think he won't succeed in continuing to evade justice now?

Only real problem with that is the people in question are often just as mornic and completely lacking in competence as he is. If they were even slightly competent, we wouldn't know half the things we do now in regards to Trump's catalouge of misdeeds.

What this says is that he has so far been very successful at hiding things, which suggests that he's actually very competent. Fact is, we probably don't know the half of things now, we may well only know the tip of the iceberg, but whether of not we ever find out much about the rest remains to be seen.

 

[8A Rail]

Possible "potential violations of the Espionage Act" now too - why does nothing surprise me about Trump!

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62527628

 

[ld0595]

I'd like to think that this would be his ultimate downfall but I'd imagine his supporters will stay as loyal as ever.

 

[Busaholic]

I'd like to think that this would be his ultimate downfall but I'd imagine his supporters will stay as loyal as ever.

Yes, perhaps, but the three search warrants are based on possible violations of three separate acts, of which the most serious would appear to be the Espionage Act, with a ten year potential prison sentence for each breach, three years prison on the second charge and twenty years on the third charge, which is highly complicated from what I can gather. In a way though, and the American newshounds seem to be focussing on the second one, falling foul of its strictures would debar Trump from ever seeking public office again. A Federal court trial, or trials, seems to have an inevitability about it now, and Trump can be found on his own social media channel demanding his followers send him huge amounts of cash so the poor man baby can defend himself. Another first for an ex-President!!

The best thing now would be for Trump to spend the rest of his natural in some darkened penitentiary far from the public gaze, with no communication allowed with the outside world and, in time, maybe not too long, like Osama Bin Laden he'll be soon forgotten except among the crazy, until one day in 2032(?) it's announced that he's passed away. Personally, if I outlive him, I'll celebrate that news with some vintage champagne.

 

[brad465]

If Nixon was still alive today, he'd break the Guinness World Records for biggest laugh and/or biggest sigh [of relief].

 

[birchesgreen]

If Nixon was still alive he'd be shaking his head and thinking "Amateur".

 

[Purple Train]

There is, I suppose, the school of thought that it would be best to let the Childish One have another four years in power, so that he's served his time wreaking havoc, and can disappear; however, I suspect that Trump would somehow try and wangle as many years in office as he can grab (which, admittedly, won't be many given the size of his hands) and the hoodwinked mob of flatterers will cheer him on.
I hope that all of the icebergs on the horizon will sink him, but he does have a capability of worming out of trouble that puts even Boris J to shame. To "United States of America" couldn't be further from the truth.
November 8th, 2016 was a dark day for peaceful democracy, as the Orange Ogre (with pale rings around his eyes) rose. I think that what the US needs now is a middle-of-the-road leader, between the two extremes - but the Orange Army are perhaps beyond the reach of compromise, the two-party system makes things difficult, and Biden isn't exactly doing well...

Political turmoil awaits. Democracy is not yet safe.

I know the accusations of a plotted overthrowing of democracy are bandied about like nobody's business nowadays, but nobody, nobody scares me on that front more than Donald John Trump.

(As an aside, one thing that irritates me about Trump is that, when I'm asked to explain why I hate him, and why I think he was an awful president, I can't think of anything other than blanket statements to support my point. Partially because of my own incompetence, but also partially because all his major policy decisions, at least in the news that filters into my distant brain, are completely swamped by a tide of stories about the next 20,000 lies he's told this week.)

 

[jon0844]

If he got another four years, can you imagine how he'd screw the country while simultaneously telling supporters about what the left are trying to do to deflect?

He'd still spend most of his time between golf and rallies (throughout he rallied like he was still running for President, but of course it was to grift by selling merchandise and seeking donations).

His family would also take whatever they could, while knowing that he couldn't stay on would mean probably taking the whole White House brick by brick.

 

[Shrop]

Yes, perhaps, but the three search warrants are based on possible violations of three separate acts, of which the most serious would appear to be the Espionage Act, with a ten year potential prison sentence for each breach, three years prison on the second charge and twenty years on the third charge, which is highly complicated from what I can gather. In a way though, and the American newshounds seem to be focussing on the second one, falling foul of its strictures would debar Trump from ever seeking public office again. A Federal court trial, or trials, seems to have an inevitability about it now, and Trump can be found on his own social media channel demanding his followers send him huge amounts of cash so the poor man baby can defend himself. Another first for an ex-President!!

The best thing now would be for Trump to spend the rest of his natural in some darkened penitentiary far from the public gaze, with no communication allowed with the outside world and, in time, maybe not too long, like Osama Bin Laden he'll be soon forgotten except among the crazy, until one day in 2032(?) it's announced that he's passed away. Personally, if I outlive him, I'll celebrate that news with some vintage champagne.

You seem to believe that US law applies to Trump and that it will be used to secure his downfall. Sorry, but US law is extremely complex. While it's simple enough to be used against those who don't have the means to fight it, it's there to be twisted by those with the most money and since Trump is one of the richest people in the US, you can be sure he will use it to his advantage. And in addition to his own huge wealth, he has an army of rich Republicans behind him who believe their own livelihood is dependent upon his success.

So no, I don't see much likelihood of his being debarred from seeking public office again, whether or not the law might appear to us less wealthy people, to have clearly been broken on several counts.

 

[najaB]

So no, I don't see much likelihood of his being debarred from seeking public office again, whether or not the law might appear to us less wealthy people, to have clearly been broken on several counts.

I do. Some of the laws he's accused of breaking are what we'd call strict liability - there's no need to demonstrate that he had malintent. It's simply enough that he mishandled classified documents to be found guilty, and I doubt very much that even the GOP would back a convicted felon as their presidential candidate.

In a delicious piece of irony, it was actually DJT who signed the amendments to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in 2018 that upgraded mishandling classified documents from a misdemeanour to a felony. So rather than "Lock her up" his chant should be "Lock me up".

 

[Busaholic]

You seem to believe that US law applies to Trump and that it will be used to secure his downfall. Sorry, but US law is extremely complex. While it's simple enough to be used against those who don't have the means to fight it, it's there to be twisted by those with the most money and since Trump is one of the richest people in the US, you can be sure he will use it to his advantage. And in addition to his own huge wealth, he has an army of rich Republicans behind him who believe their own livelihood is dependent upon his success.

So no, I don't see much likelihood of his being debarred from seeking public office again, whether or not the law might appear to us less wealthy people, to have clearly been broken on several counts.

I doubt even Trump could circumvent charges under the Espionage Act, especially if there was evidence that he was, in effect, a Russian spy. The documented phone call to Mar-a-Lago by Putin in March might form part of that investigation, even if the contents of the call may not be known to the authorities. The information that really fascinates me is the wealth of 'stuff' Trump was storing about Macron, some of which the orange one released after being subpoenaed. Why?!

 

[nlogax]

I doubt even Trump could circumvent charges under the Espionage Act, especially if there was evidence that he was, in effect, a Russian spy.

Someone in a position of authority is going to have to need to make a quick decision as to how things now progress with Trump at a federal level. Waiting until he starts a run for the 2024 election won't be a good look for the DoJ. NY and GA may be less bothered about the optics of the timing of their respective actions.

 

[Shrop]

I doubt even Trump could circumvent charges under the Espionage Act, especially if there was evidence that he was, in effect, a Russian spy. The documented phone call to Mar-a-Lago by Putin in March might form part of that investigation, even if the contents of the call may not be known to the authorities. The information that really fascinates me is the wealth of 'stuff' Trump was storing about Macron, some of which the orange one released after being subpoenaed. Why?!

"Why?!"??? Not all part of the masking of the truth perhaps? You suggest possible means by which Trump might be charged, but it would have to be a whole lot clearer than you suppose, in order for any charges to stick.

You seem to forget how easily he got clean away with inciting a riot which led to multiple deaths, simply because of Republican backing. This backing allowed him to completely over-ride processes which are normally seen as serious enough to warrant jail for his part in them. The fact that he has not only escaped jail but is even being seriously considered by hordes of influential Americans as a candidate for the next Presidency, should speak volumes. Are you sure you're not just being sucked into his game, the same as so many others?

 

[Busaholic]

You seem to forget how easily he got clean away with inciting a riot which led to multiple deaths, simply because of Republican backing.

I've forgotten nothing. You're making a big assumption that he's got away with inciting a riot. I've seen or heard nothing that states categorically he won't be charged regarding that. Only if he was found not guilty by a jury could it be suggested he'd got away with it. It's nineteen months since the Capitol was stormed, though it may seem far longer.

 

[Strathclyder]

You seem to forget how easily he got clean away with inciting a riot which led to multiple deaths, simply because of Republican backing.

Despite the 19 months that have passed since, it's rather hard to forget - even on this side of the Atlantic - the only time in history a sitting US president plotted and incited a coup in an attempt to install himself as a unelected autocrat. I certainly haven't.

And no, he has not gotten clean away with it, there is nothing presently available in the public sphere to suggest that he won't get slapped with charges in respect to it. Only following a 'not gulity' verdict by the jury could it then be asserted with certainity that he got away with this. In this particular case, the main reason it looks like he's gotten away with it is due to the sheer scope of the crime and the resulting scale of the investigation.

Lest we forget that there are more public hearings by the January 6th Committee scheduled to begin next month, partly spurred on by more witnesses coming forth and more evidence being revealed as a result of the first round of hearings.

If Nixon was still alive today, he'd break the Guinness World Records for biggest laugh and/or biggest sigh [of relief].

If Nixon was still alive he'd be shaking his head and thinking "Amateur".

On the subject of Nixon/Watergate, his presidential pardon courtesy of Ford is precisely why there is no historic legal precedent now, not to mention so much hesitancy in general, about charging a former President with crimes even if the evidence/intent is as clear as it is with Trump & January 6th. All the more reason Trump should himself become the precedent to discourage future Presidents from such egregious acts of law-breaking.

 

[najaB]

You seem to forget how easily he got clean away with inciting a riot which led to multiple deaths, simply because of Republican backing. This backing allowed him to completely over-ride processes which are normally seen as serious enough to warrant jail for his part in them. The fact that he has not only escaped jail but is even being seriously considered by hordes of influential Americans as a candidate for the next Presidency, should speak volumes.

As others have said, you can't say that he got away with it until either there's a failed prosecution or the DoJ announces that they do not intend to charge him with any offence. The nature of the US legal system - specifically the fact that grand juries can be called on the basis of seal indictments means that the first the public may know of any charges may be when papers get served.

The DoJ has reportedly been *very* interested in some of the testimony made to the House committee, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if they have invited some of the witnesses in for private interviews afterwards.

 

[dgl]

Been thinking for a while that there is a lot of similarities between trump and TV evangelists, both think they are gods gift and promise that if you given them money all your prayers will be answered, but then spend that money on improving their own lives.

"I believe the lord came to me and said get me $18 million by the weekend, so I may build that social media network for the lord, so that I may pay all of my solicitors for the lord, would I lie to you?"

 

[WatcherZero]

Giuliani was indicted over the weekend by a Grand Jury for attempting to pervert the presidential election counts.

Now revealed the Trump affiliated lawyers hired a data company to hack voting machines supplied by Dominion and Election Systems & Software in Georgia, Michigan, and Nevada to copy their voting records, paying the company an upfront fee per state of upto $26,000 to breach their systems.

Attorney Sidney Powell, former Trump campaign lawyer, allegedly instructed the firm’s team of experts to copy a rural county’s election data in Michigan, as well as in Detroit. Another Trump campaign lawyer allegedly told the team to go to Nevada, and the team was later in southern Georgia just one day after the January 6 Capitol riot in order to copy data from a Dominion voting system in rural Coffee County, The Washington Post reported. The documents, which were collected through a subpoena issued to the forensics firm, Atlanta-based SullivanStrickler, confirm earlier allegations raised in February that Georgia’s election system had been copied. In June, Michigan State Police issued warrants to seize voting equipment and election records from three towns and one county, expanding an investigation into alleged voting system breaches.

Trump's Attempt to Gain Access to Voting Machine Data Was Broader Than Previously Believed

Lawyers allied with Trump hired a data firm to access information in at least three states.

gizmodo.com

Been thinking for a while that there is a lot of similarities between trump and TV evangelists, both think they are gods gift and promise that if you given them money all your prayers will be answered, but then spend that money on improving their own lives.

"I believe the lord came to me and said get me $18 million by the weekend, so I may build that social media network for the lord, so that I may pay all of my solicitors for the lord, would I lie to you?"

You watched the The Righteous Gemstones?

Yes there is legal proceedings against trumps children that administer the Trump Foundation that they essentially ran it as a slush fund for personal enrichment.

 

[najaB]

Giuliani was indicted over the weekend by a Grand Jury for attempting to pervert the presidential election counts.

Now revealed the Trump affiliated lawyers hired a data company to hack voting machines supplied by Dominion and Election Systems & Software in Georgia, Michigan, and Nevada to copy their voting records, paying the company an upfront fee per state of upto $26,000 to breach their systems.

So, the lawyer who was leading the charge to prove that the election was rigged by people hacking the voting machines has been charged with attempting to hack the voting machines.

What was it someone said up-thread about Trumpites always accusing their opponents of doing exactly what they are doing?

 

[Strathclyder]

So, the lawyer who was leading the charge to prove that the election was rigged by people hacking the voting machines has been charged with attempting to hack the voting machines.

I would say 'you can't make it up', but this is Trump and Giuliani we're talking about here. Such a thing went out the window a long time ago with those two.

What was it someone said up-thread about Trumpites always accusing their opponents of doing exactly what they are doing?

It likely was me with 'Every projection is a confession.'

Rings louder and truer with each passing day when it comes to Trump and his goons.

 

[birchesgreen]

FBI have seized his passports (he had 3).