Driving well below the speed limit

[bramling]

My concern with drive slower approach is that it risks antagonising the driver of the car behind and I’m rather adverse about getting into a ‘road rage’ incident.

Occasionally I’ve had cars pull out right in front of me then seemingly brake because they seemingly think I’m momentarily too close to them straight afterwards.

It’s a balance to strike for sure, though on balance one has to consider the risk that if you have to brake very hard for whatever reason, then they’re likely to go into the back of you. Not your fault of course, but that doesn’t help. I’d say you’re better to slow and just let them pass - but what’s infuriating is if they then just sit behind.

Sometimes there simply isn’t a logic to how people behave, so better to just manage your own risks. It doesn’t help that some people have utterly appalling situational awareness and risk perception, and of course the old saying applies that the people lacking aptitude tend to be those with a disproportionately high level of confidence.

 

[AlterEgo]

Think you missed the important part of what I wrote - “I am very attentive to people approaching behind”.

That doesn’t make it appropriate to only drive in an overtaking lane regardless of whether you’re overtaking.

 

[bramling]

That doesn’t make it appropriate to only drive in an overtaking lane regardless of whether you’re overtaking.

Which isn’t what I wrote.

If you’re spending most of your time overtaking, there’s little benefit in keep moving in, unless someone is approaching behind going faster.

 

[Harpo]

I was behind a BMW for half an hour yesterday and watched from a fair distance behind while they tailed a coach as close as they could get, with zero visibility of the country road ahead and making no attempt to overtake.

I lost count of how many times the car driver dabbed their brakes to react. If the coach had had an incident, the tailgater would have automatically been involved.

As said so many times in this thread, the retraining needs on our roads are huge.

 

[Peter Sarf]

My concern with drive slower approach is that it risks antagonising the driver of the car behind and I’m rather adverse about getting into a ‘road rage’ incident.

Occasionally I’ve had cars pull out right in front of me then seemingly brake because they seemingly think I’m momentarily too close to them straight afterwards.

It could be a crash for cash attempt. Some people manufacture accidents at a slowish speed just to claim for personal injury.

I was behind a BMW for half an hour yesterday and watched from a fair distance behind while they tailed a coach as close as they could get, with zero visibility of the country road ahead and making no attempt to overtake.

I lost count of how many times the car driver dabbed their brakes to react. If the coach had had an incident, the tailgater would have automatically been involved.

As said so many times in this thread, the retraining needs on our roads are huge.

I kind of feel a nervous driver is likely to cling on too close to the vehicle in front, never overtaking and never moving back into lane one.

On a dual carriageway if I am in the passenger seat I often have a good look at such a driver. They either seem to have their nose pressed up against the steering wheel or look half asleep.

Occasionally and more often in town when they need both hands they are holding their ear on with a rectangular pad or looking down at their upper legs with a glow coming up onto their face.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What’s particularly annoying are the ones who don’t even want to pass, just sit close behind for whatever stupid reason.

They're trying to save fuel by using your slipstream. Spoiler: It doesn't work for them... they're getting a small "tow" effect, yes - but they're also in what racing drivers call "dirty air" ( turbulence ) which makes their car less efficient overall so after a while the "tow" effect is cancelled out.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If you’re spending most of your time overtaking, there’s little benefit in keep moving in, unless someone is approaching behind going faster.

Doesn't the current version of the Highway Code state that If you are overtaking, you should return to the left lane when it is safe to do so?

 

[AlterEgo]

Which isn’t what I wrote.

If you’re spending most of your time overtaking, there’s little benefit in keep moving in, unless someone is approaching behind going faster.

You may only always drive in the overtaking lane if you are always overtaking.

If you are spending some of the time overtaking and some of the time not, you need to move inside, regardless of whether you have begun to inconvenience someone behind you yet.

It doesn’t matter if it’s easier or lazier to drive in the overtaking line, you can only drive in it if you are indeed overtaking.

 

[Brent Goose]

Not helped that some include a car some distance ahead that they have scant, if any, speed advantage on as ‘overtaking’ so don’t pull over when there is ample opportunity to do so

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not helped that some include a car some distance ahead that they have scant, if any, speed advantage on as ‘overtaking’ so don’t pull over when there is ample opportunity to do so

Oh yes. I sometimes move out into the middle lane a bit early as a middle lane cruiser is bringing a solid line of cars up on me which means I will be stuck. It is noticeable how many middle land cruisers neither move back into lane one or out into lane three. Most of them seem to have no clue at all.

 

[bramling]

You may only always drive in the overtaking lane if you are always overtaking.

If you are spending some of the time overtaking and some of the time not, you need to move inside, regardless of whether you have begun to inconvenience someone behind you yet.

It doesn’t matter if it’s easier or lazier to drive in the overtaking line, you can only drive in it if you are indeed overtaking.

On most motorways in the south-east if you wish to maintain 70mph (or more) you will be overtaking pretty much most of the time except perhaps during the night.

Sorry if this upsets anyone, but it just isn’t worth the bother of moving in for no practical reason.

One wonders how many here have experience of driving on some of the motorways around the London area, especially those which are 3 and especially 2 lane. For something like the London end of the A1(M) it’s perfectly likely at many times of day that you can drive from one end to the other in the right-hand-most lane and be overtaking pretty much 100% of the time.

 

[cool110]

New one today from my auntie. Somehow while trying to change the clock forward she managed to switch the digital speedo to km/h and didn't notice for a while.

 

[AM9]

Not for the first time, threads in RUK like this, i.e. on the subject of driving practice vs the established laws or rules, tend to gravitate to a series of argumentativey posts based on how their authors decide to interpret those laws and rules, for their own convenience, or as a justification for transgressing them.
Many of the most outspoken posters are keen to point out that specific rules don't apply to them because for example:

they are better drivers​

they are more considerate​

their time is too valuable​

and of course the anecdotal evidence that validates their interpretation for all situations, and ultimately warrants their actual driving habits.​

 

[bramling]

Not for the first time, threads in RUK like this, i.e. on the subject of driving practice vs the established laws or rules, tend to gravitate to a series of argumentativey posts based on how their authors decide to interpret those laws and rules, for their own convenience, or as a justification for transgressing them.
Many of the most outspoken posters are keen to point out that specific rules don't apply to them because for example:

they are better drivers​

they are more considerate​

their time is too valuable​

and of course the anecdotal evidence that validates their interpretation for all situations, and ultimately warrants their actual driving habits.​

Let’s be honest, the bar for being above-average in terms of driving is abysmally low, so the fact that people here are even giving some thought to how they drive likely puts them some way above that bar.

And it isn’t like driving is particularly difficult. On balance it’s easier than driving trains because it’s more forgiving in terms of errors, and if you want something *really* difficult try rowing a 1x rowing shell, which is both physically and technically extremely challenging.

What’s more revealing is some of the disparities in the standard of driving in different parts of the country. I find that in much of Wales people just seem to get on with it without too much issue or trouble. Same generally in the bulk of the north-east. South-east is an abomination by comparison.

 

[Meerkat]

On most motorways in the south-east if you wish to maintain 70mph (or more) you will be overtaking pretty much most of the time except perhaps during the night.

Sorry if this upsets anyone, but it just isn’t worth the bother of moving in for no practical reason.

One wonders how many here have experience of driving on some of the motorways around the London area, especially those which are 3 and especially 2 lane. For something like the London end of the A1(M) it’s perfectly likely at many times of day that you can drive from one end to the other in the right-hand-most lane and be overtaking pretty much 100% of the time.

You need to see proper lane use in action in Germany to see how well it works. On the M25 you are usually stuck in the fastest lane because people in slower lanes have your attitude. If those in lane 2 moved over between overtaking then the next faster people can overtake in lane2 and don’t sit in lane 3 and so on.
And if everyone moves over between overtaking you don’t get long trains of cars behind someone going 2mph too slow, which means there is less risk of getting trapped in a lane and it becomes self reinforcing.
The only tailgating seemed to be the mini convoys of usually black BMW/Merc/Audi doing 130mph+ at ludicrously little segregation!

 

[75A]

When I first moved to Ireland I was really impressed by the standard of driving at all levels compared to the Midlands. Best of all the Tractor Drivers pull over when there's half a dozen or so cars behind them.

 

[MotCO]

Part of the problem may be that our motorways are horribly congested, and carry much more traffic than was originally planned. Think of the A1(M) between the A14 and Peterborough - a four lane motorway with plenty of space to overtake, a pleasure to drive on and no problems.

 

[Ted633]

You need to see proper lane use in action in Germany to see how well it works. On the M25 you are usually stuck in the fastest lane because people in slower lanes have your attitude. If those in lane 2 moved over between overtaking then the next faster people can overtake in lane2 and don’t sit in lane 3 and so on.
And if everyone moves over between overtaking you don’t get long trains of cars behind someone going 2mph too slow, which means there is less risk of getting trapped in a lane and it becomes self reinforcing.
The only tailgating seemed to be the mini convoys of usually black BMW/Merc/Audi doing 130mph+ at ludicrously little segregation!

Prefer people to have that attitude from a selfish point of view!
I drive on said motorway very regularly and have my cruise control set to 65. (Better fuel economy, costs Me less than 5 minutes compared to 70). As most of the slower drivers sit in lane 2, i can quite happily cruise in lane 1 without having to change lanes much. It’s only lorries I need to change lanes for.
Obviously, I keep a close eye on any car I am undertaking in case they suddenly decide to drive properly.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Just encountered someone doing just 40mph on the M40 Southbound between J15 (Warwick/Stratford-upon-Avon) and J14 (Leamington Spa.) Maybe they thought the 40 in M40 referred to the speed limit or something...

 

[MotCO]

Just encountered someone doing just 40mph on the M40 Southbound between J15 (Warwick/Stratford-upon-Avon) and J14 (Leamington Spa.) Maybe they thought the 40 in M40 referred to the speed limit or something...

Maybe they were in limp mode, or experiencing range anxiety in an EV?

Yesterday I followed a car on the A22 which was steadfastly doing 30mph or less in a 50 mph zone. No chance for overtaking.

 

[gswindale]

I frequently drive along part of the M4 in the smart motorway upgrade area.

Frequently switch between the 3 lanes in order to keep a relatively consistent speed, but the number of times i move from lane 1 to 3 and then right back again is pretty high.

Fortunately I don't see too many 3rd lane joggers (or if I do, I'm just cruising past in lane 1).

 

[Brent Goose]

Last Sunday I overtook a car seemingly marooned in lane 2 while it was also being undertaken.

I did check in the mirror to see if this prompted a change of lane but sadly not

 

[bramling]

Part of the problem may be that our motorways are horribly congested, and carry much more traffic than was originally planned. Think of the A1(M) between the A14 and Peterborough - a four lane motorway with plenty of space to overtake, a pleasure to drive on and no problems.

Yes quite simply this country is miserably overpopulated. From an infrastructure point of view, if you want to get the most out of constricted infrastructure then you need everyone driving as consistently as possible - as has increasingly become the case with train driving.

It might just about be achievable with professional drivers (eg HGVs, buses and coaches) albeit with some competence management required, but I can’t see it being achieved for car drivers - the aptitude of population simply isn’t high enough, and the “my car is my lifeline” attitude is way too ingrained.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yesterday, I was doing 30 in a 40, and was overtaken by some ***t in a Merc who then pulled sharply in front of me and then immediately slammed the brakes on, almost coming to a halt before indicating for an imminent right turn. I only just avoided him, and I’m not ashamed to say I left a skid mark.

(on the road)

I was on my road bike, not in a car.

 

[Krokodil]

Yesterday, I was doing 30 in a 40, and was overtaken by some ***t in a Merc who then pulled sharply in front of me and then immediately slammed the brakes on, almost coming to a halt before indicating for an imminent right turn. I only just avoided him, and I’m not ashamed to say I left a skid mark.

(on the road)

I was on my road bike, not in a car.

I've got a helmet camera now. Far too many idiots on the roads

 

[Cross City]

I'm late to this thread and apologies if I've missed it, but I hate the "It's a limit, not a target" phrase which often gets trotted out by slow drivers when they're called out on it.

It specifically is a target. If the conditions are anything other than dangerous you are expected to travel at the speed limit for the vehicle you're driving. You will fail your driving test for 'not making good progress' when consistently travelling under the speed limit.

 

[Falcon1200]

Just encountered someone doing just 40mph on the M40 Southbound between J15 (Warwick/Stratford-upon-Avon) and J14 (Leamington Spa.)

That must have caused havoc! Whenever I have driven on the M40, at 70mph in the left hand lane, I have been overtaken by countless vehicles in the middle lane who are in turn being overtaken by those in the right hand lane.

 

[Mat17]

I'm late to this thread and apologies if I've missed it, but I hate the "It's a limit, not a target" phrase which often gets trotted out by slow drivers when they're called out on it.

It specifically is a target. If the conditions are anything other than dangerous you are expected to travel at the speed limit for the vehicle you're driving. You will fail your driving test for 'not making good progress' when consistently travelling under the speed limit.

Totally agree!

 

[Indigo Soup]

It specifically is a target. If the conditions are anything other than dangerous you are expected to travel at the speed limit for the vehicle you're driving. You will fail your driving test for 'not making good progress' when consistently travelling under the speed limit.

Driving at (say) 58 on a good-quality 60mph road is unlikely to be seen as 'not making good progress', I would suggest. Driving at 40 probably is.. but on some NSL roads it might well be an appropriate (or even excessive) speed even in good conditions.

The trouble isn't people at 58mph holding up people driving at 60mph - it's the mismatch between nervous drivers doing 40 or 50, and people who believe that their speedometer overreads and/or they can drive to the expected enforcement threshold so they're fine to do 65 or 75. Both categories of driver are hazardous, and each believes that only the other is hazardous.

 

[gswindale]

I'm late to this thread and apologies if I've missed it, but I hate the "It's a limit, not a target" phrase which often gets trotted out by slow drivers when they're called out on it.

It specifically is a target. If the conditions are anything other than dangerous you are expected to travel at the speed limit for the vehicle you're driving. You will fail your driving test for 'not making good progress' when consistently travelling under the speed limit.

So, in mid-Wales, you have a narrow country lane - Single Track Road with a few passing places, high hedgerows and hence low visibility.

This road is classed as a "National Speed Limit" road - so, the limit is 60mph.

It's a lovely sunny summer's day - conditions are perfect for a nice country drive and if you were on the M50, you'd be absolutely fine at hitting 70mph.

Would you drive at 60mph along this lane? No you would not and if you attempted to in a driving lesson/test, you would almost certainly be removed from driving the vehicle for endangering the life of your instructor/examiner.

I wouldn't even drive at 60mph along some of the A roads in Berkshire even though that is the "limit" because it purely isn't safe to do so even in perfect conditions.

Taking another example, the slip-roads on J10 of the M4 are technically a 70mph limit - I'm not sure I'd want to do 70 around them due to the curvature - are you saying I should?