Edinburgh Tram developments

[Blindtraveler]

well traffic madness in town today, its like a Friday peek. Apparently a lot of foalk riding but suspect the novalty eliments playing a large part. How many will use day to day? Planned to out for the↲5:0↲myself but never happened.

 

[Crossover]

well traffic madness in town today, its like a Friday peek. Apparently a lot of foalk riding but suspect the novalty eliments playing a large part. How many will use day to day? Planned to out for the↲5:0↲myself but never happened.

From photos I have seen on Facebook, I'm not sure anyone else would have fitted on the 5am service!

 

[Techniquest]

I cannot believe it is actually open!

Funnily enough I had the same reaction! Looks like a trip to Edinburgh is definitely on the cards now!

 

[kylemore]

On the BBC TV news this morning, the female presenter only wanted to talk about the lateness of the project and the over-budget figure when she was talking to a person from the council.

And err.. why not?

40% (ish) of the network delivered for 200% of the original costs - that's fairly newsworthy to me

 

[DynamicSpirit]

And err.. why not?

40% (ish) of the network delivered for 200% of the original costs - that's fairly newsworthy to me

News to me implies something that has just happened (or, if it happened a while ago, has only just been discovered). The cost overrun and abandoning of part of the planned network has been public knowledge and endlessly debated over for years - and is no more news than is the fact that Labour won the 2005 election.

The news this weekend is that the network has now started running.

If you were - say - in 2010, interviewing David Cameron about his recent general election victory, then it would seem pretty odd to spend the interview quizzing him about why Labour won the previous election!

So by the same logic, if you are reporting a story about trams having just started running, why would you spend an interview going on about events from a few years ago? (Proviso: I've not seen the interview, I'm assuming it is as Paul described).

 

[90019]

The news this weekend is that the network has now started running.

It's not a network, it's a line.

 

[Bayum]

News to me implies something that has just happened (or, if it happened a while ago, has only just been discovered). The cost overrun and abandoning of part of the planned network has been public knowledge and endlessly debated over for years - and is no more news than is the fact that Labour won the 2005 election.

The news this weekend is that the network has now started running.

If you were - say - in 2010, interviewing David Cameron about his recent general election victory, then it would seem pretty odd to spend the interview quizzing him about why Labour won the previous election!

So by the same logic, if you are reporting a story about trams having just started running, why would you spend an interview going on about events from a few years ago? (Proviso: I've not seen the interview, I'm assuming it is as Paul described).

What do you think is the better sounding 'gist of the report'?

'Tram does what it does and takes people across city'

Or

'Tram finally taking passengers but it was delayed and hugely over budget'


There's more news to be had from the latter I'm afraid.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

News to me implies something that has just happened (or, if it happened a while ago, has only just been discovered). The cost overrun and abandoning of part of the planned network has been public knowledge and endlessly debated over for years - and is no more news than is the fact that Labour won the 2005 election.

The news this weekend is that the network has now started running.

If you were - say - in 2010, interviewing David Cameron about his recent general election victory, then it would seem pretty odd to spend the interview quizzing him about why Labour won the previous election!

So by the same logic, if you are reporting a story about trams having just started running, why would you spend an interview going on about events from a few years ago? (Proviso: I've not seen the interview, I'm assuming it is as Paul described).

There is more news to be had from the fact that the line is over budget and delayed. It's finally undertaken it's designated task - what need is there to be had from that?

 

[Starmill]

All I can say is:
a) I hope it's really really really popular. Like, every tram crush loaded at peak times so they have to start running more frequently ('cos, you know, can't lengthen trams*).
b) This happens really really quickly, like, 12 months from now, the story that annoying reporter will be quizzing the council on is "Why are your trams so overcrowded?".

Charging what they are for Airport journeys though... I can't see it. Will there be much appeal to commuters beyond the P+R (I've no doubt that will be very successful, but it'll be limited by available spaces).

*Except in Manchester, because we are the best at trams (a double set can carry more than 400 people)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

What do you think is the better sounding 'gist of the report'?

'Tram does what it does and takes people across city'

Or

'Tram finally taking passengers but it was delayed and hugely over budget'


There's more news to be had from the latter I'm afraid.

Exactly. I think you've exactly hit on the underlying problem. There's something in our culture where we demand *bad* news, and news organizations therefore tend to look for a way to spin news stories so they look bad.

 

[neilmc]

Given that I hate being ripped off for airport public transport fares (not a problem in Manchester fortunately) how about:

a) catching the tram to the Ingliston P&R for £1.50 and walking the short distance to the airport

or, if you have lots of luggage

b) as above but pay another £1.50 to use bus service 35 for the last stretch

or, if you have lots of time

c) catch bus service 35 all the way from Edinburgh.

 

[Deerfold]

Given that I hate being ripped off for airport public transport fares (not a problem in Manchester fortunately) how about:

a) catching the tram to the Ingliston P&R for £1.50 and walking the short distance to the airport

or, if you have lots of luggage

b) as above but pay another £1.50 to use bus service 35 for the last stretch

or, if you have lots of time

c) catch bus service 35 all the way from Edinburgh.

Of course if you're going for a few days you can get a Ridacard which is valid to/from the airport - I went for a long weekend and we each got 1 week Ridacards as the 100 stopped right outside our hotel and it was worth paying a little extra for the convenience of an express bus to Edinburgh.

 

[CallySleeper]

As well as this thread there's also this :roll:

A solicitor behind the campaign for a public inquiry into Edinburgh Trams claims he was assaulted by a tram official as he protested at Saturday’s launch.

Daniel Donaldson alleges a Transport for Edinburgh tram official pushed him, pinned his arm across his chest and attempted to break his fingers.

The 33-year-old claims the assault happened as he challenged the official after the man ripped down a poster asking people to sign a petition about the £776 million cost of the tram project.

Mr Donaldson said the alleged incident – at around 11am on Princes Street – left him shaken and only ended when members of the public intervened.

Around 40,000 tickets apparently were sold over Saturday and Sunday. Although since then, some people have been reporting trams virtually empty.

Also, traffic has been apparently incredibly bad especially in the Haymarket area as lights give trams priority. Angry car drivers and bus drivers reportedly thinking about striking over the congestion.

Business as usual then in Edinburgh.

 

[St Rollox]

Angry car drivers in the center of Edinburgh.

Well well well.

Only in an absolutely emergency would i drive a car into the middle of a UK town or city.

 

[Starmill]

Also, traffic has been apparently incredibly bad especially in the Haymarket area as lights give trams priority. Angry car drivers and bus drivers reportedly thinking about striking over the congestion.

I really hope the car drivers go on strike, that would be ace :P

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Let us give it a month and then let one of our forum members based in Edinburgh make a posting of how it seems to be running at the start of July 2014.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wholeheartedly support any bus strike due to the traffic chaos brought on by the counciks desire to play trains! The relivant people were told many times during testing that certain lights required re-programming and the entire Tram Gets Prioritty thing needed looking into.↲

 

[Liam]

I won't be using the trams at all, seeing as they don't go anywhere I can't get to quicker by bus.

 

[Starmill]

I wholeheartedly support any bus strike due to the traffic chaos brought on by the counciks desire to play trains! The relivant people were told many times during testing that certain lights required re-programming and the entire Tram Gets Prioritty thing needed looking into.↲

But that's how it's supposed to work? Public Transport should have greater priority over cars? And I know buses are Public Transport too, but then many solutions to speed their passage specifically are available.

I'm exceptionally unsympathetic to private vehicles as a result of congestion in a city centre. You don't like it? Don't drive!

 

[kylemore]

News to me implies something that has just happened (or, if it happened a while ago, has only just been discovered). The cost overrun and abandoning of part of the planned network has been public knowledge and endlessly debated over for years - and is no more news than is the fact that Labour won the 2005 election.

The news this weekend is that the network has now started running.

If you were - say - in 2010, interviewing David Cameron about his recent general election victory, then it would seem pretty odd to spend the interview quizzing him about why Labour won the previous election!

So by the same logic, if you are reporting a story about trams having just started running, why would you spend an interview going on about events from a few years ago? (Proviso: I've not seen the interview, I'm assuming it is as Paul described).

The thing is DS I'am actually VERY PRO-TRAM, it was a tragedy bordering on criminality that the Glasgow and Edinburgh systems were ripped up and replaced with inferior buses. Which is why it pains me to say that the Edinburgh Tram scheme has set back the cause of Light Rail in Scotland for a generation.
The Tram will be extended to Leith, the economics are utterly hopeless unless they do, but thats it. This should have been a showcase of what Light Rail could do to transform Scottish Urban Transport - that it's become a National Joke with the guilty parties (some of whom I worked with) laughing all the way to the bank makes me angry.

 

[overthewater]

The thing is DS I'am actually VERY PRO-TRAM, it was a tragedy bordering on criminality that the Glasgow and Edinburgh systems were ripped up and replaced with inferior buses. Which is why it pains me to say that the Edinburgh Tram scheme has set back the cause of Light Rail in Scotland for a generation.
The Tram will be extended to Leith, the economics are utterly hopeless unless they do, but thats it. This should have been a showcase of what Light Rail could do to transform Scottish Urban Transport - that it's become a National Joke with the guilty parties (some of whom I worked with) laughing all the way to the bank makes me angry.

But Glasgow already has a extramely good local train network, while the Edinburgh bus network is one, if not the best out side London. I doubt the trams would solve the issues about traffic, not travelling to and from the princess street.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wholeheartedly support any bus strike due to the traffic chaos brought on by the councils desire to play trains! The relevant people were told many times during testing that certain lights required re-programming and the entire Tram Gets Priority thing needed looking into.↲

Whilst admitting that the total bus network in Edinburgh is most definitely not one of my strong points, may I ask of those more cognisant as to how many bus routes are there that go nowhere this new tram line that a bus strike would cause travel problems to the bus passengers, who would then be in a position of having a tram system that does not serve them and a loss of their bus service ?

 

[CallySleeper]

I don't quite understand your question Paul.. are you asking what effect a tram strike would have to those bus passengers who couldn't use the tram?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't quite understand your question Paul.. are you asking what effect a tram strike would have to those bus passengers who couldn't use the tram?

No, the point that I tried to make was how many bus routes are there that go nowhere near to this tram line ....and the subsequent inconvenience that bus travellers on those services would experience by a bus strike

 

[Blindtraveler]

In reply to Paul, yes there are many bus routes that would be affected by a strike however thousands of people have seen already hefty travel times get heftier and would Im sure be sympathetic!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In reply to starmill, Edinburgh already has many bus journey time measures however what passengers and drivers are quite ritely upset about is the fact that the tram that goes nowhere the bus doesnt and takes longer is badly affecting the smooth passage of these buses and in areas like Ratho has seen a drastic cut to bus services forsing users onto it.

↲I agree that motorists have no cause for complaint here however another group youv overlooked is those on foot and those who have already got off badly delayed buses trying to get on with our lives.↲

 

[Zoidberg]

... may I ask of those more cognisant as to how many bus routes are there that go nowhere this new tram line that a bus strike would cause travel problems to the bus passengers, ...

The answer is, lots.

The tramline prescribes an east/west route from the city centre out to the airport.

Bus services serve all of the city, including the route covered by the tramline.

Most bus services in Edinburgh travel from their terminus at one end, through the city centre to a terminus at the other end of the city.

 

[CallySleeper]

No, the point that I tried to make was how many bus routes are there that go nowhere near to this tram line ....and the subsequent inconvenience that bus travellers on those services would experience by a bus strike

Sorry, yes I meant bus strike affecting those who are out of reach of the tram.

The answer: I'd say around 80% of bus routes would be affected (if you discount the Shandwick Place core) It's fair to say the majority (if not all) of these 50+ routes have been adversely affected by construction and now the running.

17,800 people used the tram yesterday (Monday 2nd) though no indication of how many of them were actually paying passengers. Would expect that figure could be slightly higher today with all the teeny boppers at Murrayfield tonight.

 

[90019]

Well, for the second time in as many days, the tram signals at the West End failed this evening, stranding an eastbound tram at the junction with South Charlotte Street (it was both a westbound and eastbound tram last night), causing buses to be diverted while they fixed it.

It was only stuck for about 15 minutes or so, but not exactly good for it to happen in the same place on two consecutive nights.
Not sure the punters on board would be best pleased, as I doubt they'd disembark them there due to the tram lines being in the middle of the road and that being a rather busy junction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...and bus drivers reportedly thinking about striking over the congestion.

Just so you know, that isn't true.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It
Could
Potentially
be another bus company talking about striking? wouldnt blame them given the amount of mid distance work the company in question do.

 

[90019]

It
Could
Potentially
be another bus company talking about striking? wouldnt blame them given the amount of mid distance work the company in question do.

I'm not sure I can see either of them striking over the trams. It wouldn't achieve anything anyway, as it's nothing to do with either of their companies.

Anyway, both First and Stagecoach buses take so long themselves getting through the city centre that I doubt the trams actually make that much difference to them.
We're the ones getting stuffed every day because we run to such tight timings (with a few exceptions), such is the nature of the service we run.

 

[Stan Drews]

I'm not sure I can see either of them striking over the trams. It wouldn't achieve anything anyway, as it's nothing to do with either of their companies.

Anyway, both First and Stagecoach buses take so long themselves getting through the city centre that I doubt the trams actually make that much difference to them.
We're the ones getting stuffed every day because we run to such tight timings (with a few exceptions), such is the nature of the service we run.

The trams have had a big impact on stagecoach/first services, due to the frequent c@ck ups at the West End!