It presumably being beyond difficult for a member of staff to make live PA announcements instead. Maybe they don't have the information either, or it isn't in their job description.
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Elizabeth line reliability issues
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So with ABW the issue is the PA on the MTR side is broken and hasn't yet been fixed. Also MTR staff at the gateline 2(downstairs) are solely gateline atm and thus cannot use the roaming mic to do platform announcements for next trains this would be down to the Agency/STM staff if any on the platform to help passengers but even they I assume haven't yet been given the roaming Mic to do announcements.
Finding out what train leaves next is usually(if there is no sudden magical step ups by control) a matter of signalmaps for staff which isn't actually a company provided tool by more so staff taking initiative to try and make their work easier and get some info where there is usually none.
Isn't that nowadays a reason for fully closing the station? Certainly the Bakerloo station at Marylebone, no PA for 100 years, had it installed for the first time some years ago, and a month later it broke down. No PA, station closed was the new rule. Arriving rail passengers had to walk to Baker Street. One of them was run down and killed crossing Gloucester Place. Described in a magazine at the time. Not a rail statistic, because it happened outside rail premises ...
So at the very least a broken PA should be a number one item, 4 hour response.
I assume the mitigation is platform staff of some degree even if it ends up being the train coordinator or Alstom Technician who its not in the job description to do customer service. The argument is that when there is actual disruption then gateline duties are second place to delay mitigation and platform management.
The PA system works from the upstairs static box and covers both platforms 1-2 and 3-4 but staff there aren't always going to be using it over MTR staff. Plus depending on the time there are restrictions the PA can be used due to complaints by the local housing blocks near the station.
It doesn't also help that the SE side at ABW has no staff at all so when things go wrong there which they have then its chaotic to manage that and still the MTR Lizzy platforms. For example if we have part closure or disruption on the lizzy line then there isn't always enough staff to stop passengers coming from the SE platforms off trains hurrying over the footbridges for Elizabeth line trains to find out there is none then rush back again to the SE or Thameslink train they just came off to not always get back on and understandably be angry.
Tho the improvements are coming yes albeit slowly.
redreni
Member
In fairness the staff at Abbey Wood generally do a good job mitigating. I feel a bit sorry for them, having to stand at the entrances to the platform pointing.
I don't know what information systems they have, but even if it's nothing, if you're standing on the platform the whole time then it's possible to make an educated guess which train's leaving next and you're going to be right a high percentage of the time - it's generally first in, first out. It's just not obvious as a passenger if you arrive on the platform and there are already two trains waiting there.
Several times there has been two trains on the platform with the one that's just come in assumed to go after the second one and thus staff has fairly tried to get passengers on the one that's been waiting before to only see the newly arrived be stepped up by control without any word and then depart leaving passengers baffled.
redreni
Member
Indeed. It's absolutely not good enough.
These im sure will be ironed out, MTR platform staff are doing their best with the resources they have(which is quite little), ABW case will be sorted even faster when MTR realise its an important station being one of their eastern terminuses and that it will need to be much more equipped to deal with issues as these can and have the ability to cripple the Woolwich Line.
Sweetjesus
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Signal failure at Ilford now. This is becoming an embarrassment.
Its times like this you get to appreciate however how double stacking is possible via the CBTC system
Also notice 9W50 being routed to Abbey-Wood to try and step it up to recover some delays. Might I also add the Ilford signal failure isn't really a Elizabeth Specific issue. 9T94 Also was receiving MA but had no driver so the Movement Authority was Withdrawn.
Also notice 9W50 being routed to Abbey-Wood to try and step it up to recover some delays. Might I also add the Ilford signal failure isn't really a Elizabeth Specific issue. 9T94 Also was receiving MA but had no driver so the Movement Authority was Withdrawn.
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It really isn't, stop trying to make out the Elizabeth Line as a failure.
When it comes to infrastructure issues on the East or West, it’s not TfL/MTR/RFLI’s fault and I think passengers know this.
If you look face value at the timetable yes things may look shambolic, however people don’t usually look at timetables for the Elizabeth Line. It’s a TUAG service essentially except for certain stations. Many customers won’t even know a train is running late before they get on it, just the intervals matter.
The only issues that need to be fixed and is in MTR’s hands are the software for the trains and the software for departure screens in the COS. Reliability will get better. And now that the Nuneham viaduct is open and less freight ends up on the GWML, reliability on the West will improve.
If you look face value at the timetable yes things may look shambolic, however people don’t usually look at timetables for the Elizabeth Line. It’s a TUAG service essentially except for certain stations. Many customers won’t even know a train is running late before they get on it, just the intervals matter.
The only issues that need to be fixed and is in MTR’s hands are the software for the trains and the software for departure screens in the COS. Reliability will get better. And now that the Nuneham viaduct is open and less freight ends up on the GWML, reliability on the West will improve.
Morning departures are a particular problem as the they are not being synced properly between the timetable and the CIS when they start only in the Central section (i.e from Plumstead).
Which has zero to do with the Elizabeth line / TfL, but it's an NR infrastructure issue. It's all the worse as its exactly the same issue & location as yesterday and later on in the day, so smack bang in the evening peak.
And if you have a more intense service, it becomes all the harder to handle.
More to divert away from the point of obstruction (at Ilford) which will just cause congestion through Ilford, stacking up, and then you have issues at Shenfield.
I think you overestimate what passengers know - they see a line in "Severe Delays" and they assume TfL have caused an issue! Especially as all the other modes (excepting Overground) TfL also maintain the infrastructure.
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There issues sometimes with the diversions is by the time the driver is told or knows they're being diverted they've reached Canary Wharf and with a ton of confused passengers have to explain whats just happened after no doubt asking control or the traffic manager on the said change.
Its fine however as most drivers have signed to do both Shenfield and Abbey-Wood rounds.
No diversion would take place without the driver being made aware. The driver should then make announcements and update/turn off the on board displays. No doubt some are engrossed on phones / headphones in so the first thing they know is ending up at Canary Wharf. Not a problem unique to the Elizabeth line and happens all over the place and hard to fully resolve.
I'd like to hope so now since things have improved with delay management but it wasn't surprising for some Shenfield drivers to get off at ABW and mention theyre surprise of being routed in. Considering its CBTC and Auto Start push the communication at the time wasn't the best from control for Drivers or Platform staff, its improved a bit now however so wouldn't happen much if at all since new timetable.
greatkingrat
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I don't think we really need half a dozen screenshots of signal maps posting every time there are delays.
Ofc not not every delay is severe enough to be interesting for that
Florence Rox
Member
Went to Maidenhead tonight and planned to get the last train home, the 23.29, to find it had been cancelled. There was no explanation, nor any alternatives offered. I had to get a train to Slough, and get an Uber. Similar thing happened around a year ago, and delay reply gave me £2, not worth the effort.
extendedpaul
Member
On Thursday night my train was held outside Abbey Wood station at 22.41 for about 8 minutes waiting for a free platform. Missed both the 22.46 and 22.49 onward services as a direct consequence.
We only moved into a platform when an outbound service passed us and the other platform was indeed occupied. Very frustrating. Driver did apologise every couple of minutes.
We only moved into a platform when an outbound service passed us and the other platform was indeed occupied. Very frustrating. Driver did apologise every couple of minutes.
That’s a shame - 8 minutes isn’t that long but as you know the North Kent timetable is awfully spaced for a “4 tph” service.
Purple Train
Established Member
Coming back home the other day, there was some kind of power issue at Southall that meant that the rear four coaches had to be locked out of use (the PIS display opposite me (in the fifth carriage) wasn't working, but it was perfectly light outside so I don't know what the reason was). Driver made three announcements, with the result that only a few people tried the doors at the back before running forward (
), and we set off five minutes late. At Hayes, however, the driver had either forgotten to reset the door equipment or the system hadn't reset, because the back four coaches remained locked out of use, which necessitated another two-minute delay as everyone rushed forward!
The service was getting back to normal after an earlier delay though (GWR had several services delayed significantly, and my train into Paddington was five minutes late), so there were some hold-ups behind late-running services in front.
The very integration of the service is its downfall on the reliability front though - it inherits the delays of both the GWML and GEML and even a minor delay is exacerbated with a 24tph service!
), and we set off five minutes late. At Hayes, however, the driver had either forgotten to reset the door equipment or the system hadn't reset, because the back four coaches remained locked out of use, which necessitated another two-minute delay as everyone rushed forward!The service was getting back to normal after an earlier delay though (GWR had several services delayed significantly, and my train into Paddington was five minutes late), so there were some hold-ups behind late-running services in front.
The very integration of the service is its downfall on the reliability front though - it inherits the delays of both the GWML and GEML and even a minor delay is exacerbated with a 24tph service!
Coming back home the other day, there was some kind of power issue at Southall that meant that the rear four coaches had to be locked out of use (the PIS display opposite me (in the fifth carriage) wasn't working, but it was perfectly light outside so I don't know what the reason was). Driver made three announcements, with the result that only a few people tried the doors at the back before running forward (
The service was getting back to normal after an earlier delay though (GWR had several services delayed significantly, and my train into Paddington was five minutes late), so there were some hold-ups behind late-running services in front.
The very integration of the service is its downfall on the reliability front though - it inherits the delays of both the GWML and GEML and even a minor delay is exacerbated with a 24tph service!
Localised power failure at Southall. Knocked out a few hundred properties too!
Purple Train
Established Member
What elements of station equipment did it affect so as to make it unsafe for boarding/alighting, out of interest? There was one person on the platform who tried to join the train at the door opposite me, and had to be waved forward.
DOO cameras. 345s rely on a “leaky feeder” between the in-cab monitors and platform mounted equipment. As a result, the driver has to ‘look back’ and inhibit the rear (4) coaches accordingly.
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