Except there’s a problem, a big ££ problem. Whose going to pay for it / has the DfT signed such a refurbishment off…
That’s the stumbling block. And yet people want the DfT to have more control over the railways (insert facepalm emoji here).
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EMR Class 360's
- Thread starter thealm
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That’s the stumbling block. And yet people want the DfT to have more control over the railways (insert facepalm emoji here).
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Hairy Bear
Member
There not using all of them at the moment because there either at Eastleigh being painted, or there under repair/awaiting repair.
If your under the illusion there being stored...wrong.
There's no slack, there just unreliable!
DannyMich2018
Member
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- 19 Dec 2018
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- 825
I can agree with your last sentence. I live in Kettering and I've observed a lot more 4 car formations recently than say earlier in the summer.
Though don't forget of the 7 stations served 4 of them are completely barrier entry (Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport and St P) - so the biggest "risk" is people travelling beyond Bedford. And I believe barriers are also being put in place at the remaining stations ?
QSK19
Member
But the impression I and others get is that there does seem to be money for refurbishments elsewhere - eg Northern, 390s - but there never seems to be for EMR.
It begs the question of what problem exactly does the DfT have with the East Midlands? The 170s and 360s are in desperate need of refurbishments, arguably more so than the 390s (which were decent and comfortable enough when I travelled on them a good few times a couple of years ago).
If refurbishment money really is that tight, the DfT needs to prioritise - EMR Connect & Regional should be very, very high up the list; but, as I’ve said before, I wouldn’t be surprised if the 170s and 360s don’t get any refurbishment.
Finally, also factor in that the East Midlands is full of seats that the Conservatives need to hold on to in order to remain in Government at the next General Election. So surely that should be incentive enough to get said trains refurbished up to the promised standard.
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It's still on the agenda, just in it's time and perhaps not to the scale promised originally. EMR doesn't have enough trains to run it's summer regional services yet, they're not going to send any away for refurb.
I was surprised how knackered the 170s seem when I passed on one last week. They give the 360s a run for their money in terms of internal scruffiness!
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The 390 refurbishment was tendered quite a long time ago, wasn't it? I suspect that it's got much more to do with who managed to get contracts signed before the Treasury put the chequebook away, rather than any deliberate vendetta against the East Midlands.
Similarly, I imagine the 360 fleet relivery process is proceeding because it too was signed-off in time.
43096
On Moderation
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The 360 repaints are scheduled maintenance: there was no option to do them or not.
Halish Railway
Established Member
What is there in the East Midlands that isn’t scuffy? EMR’s and CrossCountry’s fleet is all scruffy.
Same with Northern. Pretty much all the work was specced and contracted years ago - 2016 from memory, long before covid was a 'thing'.
urpert
Member
The XC 170s generally feel quite well cared for.
Not some of the ones I’ve been on recently!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
By East Midlands Railway’s standards the dirtiest of XC would look clean.
QSK19
Member
Believe me I’d drop the 360s in a heartbeat to take the 379s (the 360 introduction has been a disaster, and the refurbishment prospects are looking disapponting); however your idea would be easier said than done:
- So much time, effort and money have gone into the 360s that it would be a real waste if they were then offloaded, especially with the units get an exterior overhaul at Eastleigh and an interior refurbishment (of sorts!) in the pipeline;
- Driver training needed all over again for the 379s;
- A fleet of 30 is too much for the requirements of the Connect service. With a full timetable being based on 6 diagrams of 12-car formations (ie 18 units in total) with 3 other units as back up, 21 is a good number of 360/1s. I think 30 units would be good forward planning in case the Connect service were to also run to Leicester/East Midlands Parkway as an all-stop service up the MML; but wiring up to there is years away.
- The 360s are cheaper to lease than the 379s. I think expensive lease rates is a primary reason why the 379s are currently off-lease.
So, as much as I would love to bin the 360s and get either 379s or new 745s, I wouldn’t even stake a penny on the 360s going anywhere for ages.
As much as I don’t like the 360s and I think that their introduction has been rotten, they have the potential to be brilliant if the reliability can be sorted and a decent refurbishment delivered. I suppose I would say that I don’t like them currently; but I’m open-minded as to what happens refurbishment-wise. I don’t hold out much hope, though, especially if the pitiful offering of new seat covers and installation of power sockets is all they’re getting!
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It does feel like they’re sitting down a lot less and are basically reliable once in service (cab A/C issues during the heatwave aside - but that was exceptional). The main issue still seems to be getting them in for scheduled maintenance which is leading to short forms.
Availability will be a little better once they’ve all be painted, but it’s hard to see how 12 car running is going to be possible unless shed access is rapidly improved.
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RailWonderer
Established Member
Depends which 170s. The ex LNR ones in LM interior are worn but still presentable, the ex GA/TfW ones are the best (GA refurbed those in 2016) and the the XC ones are the most worn out and scruffy in my recent experience. Haven’t been on a 360 since Jan 2021 but even then they weren’t looking good so I dread to think what they’re like now.
3 Corby services in a row today were short formed with just a 4 car unit. Hardly a pleasant travelling experience. If there are 6 x 8-car sets due to be operating on any one day, then 50% of the operational fleet was short formed today.
Pity those ROG 360s are going to the scrap yard rather than adding to the EMR Connect fleet.
DfT should be providing strategic long term thinking, rather than short term ignorance. In a few years, EMR will be complaining they have insufficient units and the only solution will then be expensive new builds.
Pity those ROG 360s are going to the scrap yard rather than adding to the EMR Connect fleet.
DfT should be providing strategic long term thinking, rather than short term ignorance. In a few years, EMR will be complaining they have insufficient units and the only solution will then be expensive new builds.
Just a gentle reminder any posts of a speculative nature belong in the Speculative Discussion section please.
This thread is for updates; if anyone would like to speculate on the topic of 360s or 360 replacements, there is an existing thread at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/possible-ac-emu-future-cascade-scenarios.236181
This thread is for updates; if anyone would like to speculate on the topic of 360s or 360 replacements, there is an existing thread at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/possible-ac-emu-future-cascade-scenarios.236181
3973EXL
Established Member
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- 2 Feb 2017
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- 2,732
STP 02/09 5Q80 0930 Cricklewood - Eastleigh Works
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04678/2022-09-02/detailed
STP 02/09 5Q81 1519 Eastleigh Works = Cricklewood
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04679/2022-09-02/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04678/2022-09-02/detailed
STP 02/09 5Q81 1519 Eastleigh Works = Cricklewood
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04679/2022-09-02/detailed
One fresh one out, one more in and one more to go after this, the penultimate unit.
It will most likely be 119 as I saw it parked up alone at Cricklewood Monday, leaving 110 as the final one.
43096
On Moderation
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- 16,727
I make it three to go in: 110, 112 and 119.
Hairy Bear
Member
Your forgettng 112 which is still in vinyl, that will need doing as well.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
The elipsis makes it sound like you suggest that was obvious. It definitely wasn’t. 110 is not the final one to be refurbished, which is what the discussion was on.
I never said I was trying to make it obvious, if I was trying to make it obvious, believe me I would have had a massive difference in words.
Oh, and here’s something that’s obvious - the units are being repainted, not refurbished…
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