EMR Class 360's

[Doomotron]

Still at least the refurbishment is now well underway. This photo shows progress so far.
Just the stained carpets, the threadbare upholstery, the defective lighting, broken heating and vibrating air conditioning still to be tackled.

I'm not sure if the different seat base is used as sarcasm or you actually think it's part of the refurbishment, so I'm going to give two responses...

1: That seat based is from the First Great Eastern era and are occasionally used as spares, just like Southeastern using SET seat covers sometimes.
2: Wow, that refurbishment really is a blast from the past!

 

[LowLevel]

Not sure what is happening with the 360s. I've heard internal updates on the progress of the 158 and 170 refurbishment which demonstrates meaningful work is happening there but total radio silence on the 360s.

 

[spotify95]

Here we go again.
2 consecutive services formed of 4-car units. So much for the promise of 12-car units in the peak. This fleet really are clapped out, with the unit this morning having a door out of use.

Still at least the refurbishment is now well underway. This photo shows progress so far.
Just the stained carpets, the threadbare upholstery, the defective lighting, broken heating and vibrating air conditioning still to be tackled.

I was just going to comment on this myself - a 4 car short-formation gracefully pulled in to Wellingborough for the 17:57 WEL-STP. How the hell can EMR not have 12 fully operational units out of 21?

Regarding the door issue - I noticed that one of the 360s (07:37?) yesterday had issues as the on train manager/platform staff discussed it, after being alerted that one set of doors hadn't fully closed.

Even though the 360s seem to resemble (certainly from the outside appearance) the diesel equivalent of the 170s, the 170s used by CrossCountry and EMR Regional are way, way better. Why can't we get rid of the 360s and have a set of bi-modes that would then allow services to Melton Mowbray, as well as stoppers to Leicester...

In fact, once the 810's come in I'd give CrossCountry the 222s, so we could have their 170s, and then just shove the 170s on the stoppers... would be way more reliable than the current 360s, and have a nicer interior as well!

As for the defective lighting - I've seen the 360s stabled in Kettering Sidings with the lights still switched on, if they're running the lights 24/7 then of course they're going to fail as the ballasts will overheat and the tubes themselves (yes the 360s still use fluorescent tubes) will wear out. Not to mention the severely mismatched color temperatures. The HSTs had better lighting than the 360s, in fact some of the HST end vestibules were starting to get LEDs not long before they were SIMS'ed...

 

[43055]

Even though the 360s seem to resemble (certainly from the outside appearance) the diesel equivalent of the 170s, the 170s used by CrossCountry and EMR Regional are way, way better. Why can't we get rid of the 360s and have a set of bi-modes that would then allow services to Melton Mowbray, as well as stoppers to Leicester...

Because that would be logical which most of the time does not happen. Anyway the 170's are not perfect as well due to different previous operators. Anyway at least with EMR Connect you have a full service every half hour. Much of the regional side still has missing services which is likely be until December. Personally I just want a full service rather than caring if the seats are purple.

 

[spotify95]

Short form again! 0737 from Wellingborough to Corby was 4 car, are you telling me that EMR can't have 12 serviceable 360s?

If the 360s are still that battered, why couldn't we have had a more substantial/better condition fleet? Or why couldn't we have saved the 360/2s from SIMs?

Seems like some serious sacrifices have been made to convert the MML to electric running.

 

[Spartacus]

Short form again! 0737 from Wellingborough to Corby was 4 car, are you telling me that EMR can't have 12 serviceable 360s?

If the 360s are still that battered, why couldn't we have had a more substantial/better condition fleet? Or why couldn't we have saved the 360/2s from SIMs?

Seems like some serious sacrifices have been made to convert the MML to electric running.

It's just been made up to 8 car at Kettering now.

 

[Maddog83]

4 car Sunday services only from May.

 

[Bletchleyite]

4 car Sunday services only from May.

As in Sunday services all 4 car? If so that's appalling.

Regarding lighting tubes won't fail if left on 24/7. Some of the 350s are.

 

[43066]

4 car Sunday services only from May.

Has that been officially announced anywhere (internally or externally)?

Sounds highly unlikely…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Has that been officially announced anywhere (internally or externally)?

Sounds highly unlikely…

If it is the case then EMR have wasted rather a bit of money on 21 EMUs just to use twelve on weekdays and six on Sundays, not that I believe it to be entirely true just yet.

 

[Halish Railway]

Its been talked about upthread that any refurbishment of these units will be limited to reupholstering the seats, giving the units a deep clean and fitting plug and USB sockets - Is there any indication of how much this would cost in comparison with fitting the 2+2 seats as promised and as will be seen on the 810s?

 

[LowLevel]

Its been talked about upthread that any refurbishment of these units will be limited to reupholstering the seats, giving the units a deep clean and fitting plug and USB sockets - Is there any indication of how much this would cost in comparison with fitting the 2+2 seats as promised and as will be seen on the 810s?

There's been no agreement as yet on any refurbishment of the 360s at all as far as I am aware, whereas the 158 and 170 refurbishment is moving along at least.

 

[43102EMR]

There's been no agreement as yet on any refurbishment of the 360s at all as far as I am aware, whereas the 158 and 170 refurbishment is moving along at least.

A bit strange given they’ve completed the repaint of the 360s, whereas the 170s and 158s are all over the place in that regard.

 

[43066]

A bit strange given they’ve completed the repaint of the 360s, whereas the 170s and 158s are all over the place in that regard.

The repaint of the 360s was needed for anti corrosion protection due to the fact they were still in their original livery, and is separate to any interior refurbishment.

 

[westcoaster]

I was just going to comment on this myself - a 4 car short-formation gracefully pulled in to Wellingborough for the 17:57 WEL-STP. How the hell can EMR not have 12 fully operational units out of 21?

Regarding the door issue - I noticed that one of the 360s (07:37?) yesterday had issues as the on train manager/platform staff discussed it, after being alerted that one set of doors hadn't fully closed.

Even though the 360s seem to resemble (certainly from the outside appearance) the diesel equivalent of the 170s, the 170s used by CrossCountry and EMR Regional are way, way better. Why can't we get rid of the 360s and have a set of bi-modes that would then allow services to Melton Mowbray, as well as stoppers to Leicester...

In fact, once the 810's come in I'd give CrossCountry the 222s, so we could have their 170s, and then just shove the 170s on the stoppers... would be way more reliable than the current 360s, and have a nicer interior as well!

As for the defective lighting - I've seen the 360s stabled in Kettering Sidings with the lights still switched on, if they're running the lights 24/7 then of course they're going to fail as the ballasts will overheat and the tubes themselves (yes the 360s still use fluorescent tubes) will wear out. Not to mention the severely mismatched color temperatures. The HSTs had better lighting than the 360s, in fact some of the HST end vestibules were starting to get LEDs not long before they were SIMS'ed...

Regarding the lighting, the amount of times I've asked the TM to switch the lights on now is crazy, when they get rebooted or switched on. Only the emergency lighting kicks in so just one light every so often through the train is illuminated, they just prees the internal light on button and they work.

4 car on a Sunday is lunacy, especially mid morning and mid afternoon they are very busy.

 

[QSK19]

There's been no agreement as yet on any refurbishment of the 360s at all as far as I am aware, whereas the 158 and 170 refurbishment is moving along at least.

I think it’s a little strange that the 158s would get priority over the 360s seeing as the STP-Corby route is (presumably) more of a revenue earner and will stay in the fleet longer than the 158s?

Unless it - combined with pessimistic Sunday stock usage levels - is a sign that they’re giving up on the 360s and getting alternative long-term stock? Although I’d doubt this given that surely the lease must be for quite a few years yet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding the lighting, the amount of times I've asked the TM to switch the lights on now is crazy, when they get rebooted or switched on. Only the emergency lighting kicks in so just one light every so often through the train is illuminated, they just prees the internal light on button and they work.

I think I've seen that on a 350 about twice ever, and I've been on a lot of them.

 

[LowLevel]

I think it’s a little strange that the 158s would get priority over the 360s seeing as the STP-Corby route is (presumably) more of a revenue earner and will stay in the fleet longer than the 158s?

Unless it - combined with pessimistic Sunday stock usage levels - is a sign that they’re giving up on the 360s and getting alternative long-term stock? Although I’d doubt this given that surely the lease must be for quite a few years yet?

There's not really any priority in it, different stock, different projects. I am just aware that 158 and 170 has now reached the point where unions are being consulted on plans etc, whereas 360 just seems to be on hold. With the railway as it is, who knows what that means.

 

[spotify95]

Regarding the lighting, the amount of times I've asked the TM to switch the lights on now is crazy, when they get rebooted or switched on. Only the emergency lighting kicks in so just one light every so often through the train is illuminated, they just prees the internal light on button and they work.

4 car on a Sunday is lunacy, especially mid morning and mid afternoon they are very busy.

I've seen issues with 222 Meridian lighting as well where some (or all) of the bulbs don't work, and I don't mean the odd one (indicating lamp failure), but they are in a pattern (train setting?). Whenever I've been on a 360 (which is not too often, as I always try and get the 0751 from WEL or the 1730 from LEI), the lights are fine, albeit with mismatched tubes and the odd failed tube.

The same cannot be said about the rest of the 360s - still no plug sockets, no tables, cramped 3+2 seating, etc etc...

As in Sunday services all 4 car? If so that's appalling.

Regarding lighting tubes won't fail if left on 24/7. Some of the 350s are.

A lot of tubes in other scenarios (not train related) will fail if left on 24/7. Either the ballast will overheat or the starter will fail, or the lamp will wear out over time. Something will make the lamp fail if they're just left there to burn out.
And anyway, if the 360s are to be EMR's long term "connect" rolling stock, serving Corby/Kettering/Wellingborough/Bedford/the two Lutons, then it makes sense to convert them to LED surely? The Meridians have all got LED spots along the middle (to replace whatever halogens they were using before) and the lights near the overhead racking is also slowly being converted. Yet the 222s are soon to be off-lease once we get the 810s?

And another thing about the 360s. The 17:57 from WEL to STP was a 4 car, short formation AGAIN! Do EMR really not have 12 serviceable units out of 21? So much for 12 car peak time trains... I'd have thought close to 6pm would have counted as peak, and it was 4 car!

 

[dosxuk]

I think it’s a little strange that the 158s would get priority over the 360s seeing as the STP-Corby route is (presumably) more of a revenue earner and will stay in the fleet longer than the 158s?

Aren't the 158's now expected to stay indefinitely with the retention of Nottingham - Liverpool into the franchise?

 

[QSK19]

Aren't the 158's now expected to stay indefinitely with the retention of Nottingham - Liverpool into the franchise?

I think an 8 year lease has been signed for the 158s; but in any case, they’re at least 10 years older than the 360s, so presumably the latter will be around for a good chunk longer (unless they’re fed up of the 360s by the time the lease is up and new/cascaded stock replaces them).

 

[smjxm09]

As part of the new electric service from St Pancras to Corby the class 360’s were meant to have an interior upgrade including replacing 2+3 seating (corrected) with 2+2 Seating. Did it ever happen and if not will it happen anytime soon? I seem to remember it was promised as part of the franchise agreement. Also will luggage racks be installed seeing the service is now promoted at the Luton Airport Express.

I went on the service a few months ago and was disappointed regarding the condition of the train.

 

[LowLevel]

No, and the franchise as was signed back then is dead anyway. No news to report on 360 refurbishment. I went on a few the other day and whilst not a patch on a 222 they didn't seem too terrible for an outer suburban train.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As part of the new electric service from St Pancras to Corby the class 360’s were meant to have an interior upgrade including replacing 2+5 seating with 2+2 Seating. Did it ever happen and if not will it happen anytime soon? I seem to remember it was promised as part of the franchise agreement. Also will luggage racks be installed seeing the service is now promoted at the Luton Airport Express.

It’s 2+3 seating not 2+5, but it’s so comparatively unpleasant and cramped to what it replaced that it might as well be

 

[smjxm09]

It was a major disappointment when they were introduced and far inferior to what they replaced.
Just found this. They still claim it will happen but not when.

Connect | EMR

Introducing EMR Connect our first electric train service operated with Class 360's. Our EMR Connect trains provide frequent and convenient services between Corby and London St Pancras International

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

 

[fgwrich]

As part of the new electric service from St Pancras to Corby the class 360’s were meant to have an interior upgrade including replacing 2+3 seating (corrected) with 2+2 Seating. Did it ever happen and if not will it happen anytime soon? I seem to remember it was promised as part of the franchise agreement. Also will luggage racks be installed seeing the service is now promoted at the Luton Airport Express.

I went on the service a few months ago and was disappointed regarding the condition of the train.

You have to remember though that franchises don’t exist anymore - everything is now ran through the DfT, hence the hold up with the refurbishment.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Make of this cringey video what you will.

 

[spotify95]

Make of this cringey video what you will.

Wow, just wow. From St Pancras, might as well go GTR as they at least have dedicated commuter stock (Cl 700s) which are a lot newer than the 20 year old 360s. Probably have more modern interiors. Probably cheaper too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wow, just wow. From St Pancras, might as well go GTR as they at least have dedicated commuter stock (Cl 700s) which are a lot newer than the 20 year old 360s. Probably have more modern interiors. Probably cheaper too.

It’s the way she catwalk swaggers down the platform and aisle as if she’s showing us something beyond impressive, and it’s the knackered GA interior 360s with a few Luton Express stickers Hard to watch!

If anything it made me feel sad for what is lost. I took 222s to Luton (and Bedford) many times and they felt exceptionally luxurious and premium compared to Thameslink, especially the less busy ones which was most Corbys. I know they’re diesel and short, but it is a shame.

 

[QSK19]

I wonder if this means that EMR Connect branding will be dropped in favour of LEX? Seems a bit confusing to have two types of branding on the same train.

Make of this cringey video what you will.

So that’s why no proper refurbishment is forthcoming… the actual, long-awaited “refurbishment” consisted of a deep clean of the areas that were used for filming

If anything it made me feel sad for what is lost. I took 222s to Luton (and Bedford) many times and they felt exceptionally luxurious and premium compared to Thameslink, especially the less busy ones which was most Corbys. I know they’re diesel and short, but it is a shame.

My thoughts too. When I took my son down to Wellingborough once and had to switch to the 360 at Kettering, I was very let down - grubby interior and a leaking roof. Structural condition will have been sorted at Eastleigh; but IMO it’s certainly a step back from the 222 in terms of accommodation (despite how grubby they themselves have become).