Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[Jez]

This is confusing

RTT shows 3 x 153 from Cardiff to Swansea and a single 153 onwards to Carmarthen?

This train is always busy so I understand why a Mk4 would be better than a single 153.

Use of a Mk4 also responds to those of us who feel Swansea has been let down by the whole Mk4 project.

Agreed using a MK4 is good extra capacity for most passengers going to the mainline stations like Neath, Bridgend etc but pointless using it for a Swanline as quite a few people use these stations especially on a Friday and Saturday night after a night out in Swansea. if road replacement transport wasnt provided there could be quite a few claims for taxis! Which will cost TFW more money in the long run.

 

[Topological]

Agreed using a MK4 is good extra capacity for most passengers going to the mainline stations like Neath, Bridgend etc but pointless using it for a Swanline as quite a few people use these stations especially on a Friday and Saturday night after a night out in Swansea. if road replacement transport wasnt provided there could be quite a few claims for taxis! Which will cost TFW more money in the long run.

I suspect a single 153 would have led to more claims.

Either way, if it ran as 3x153 then all is fine.

There were probably some spare 153s or 150s that could have been used if they were not half way to Manchester at the time

 

[BillStampy]

Any ideas why Manchester to Swansea was cut down to just Cardiff on quite a few services today including what would've been HD05's diagram if it hadn't had an issue with the doors?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Any ideas why Manchester to Swansea was cut down to just Cardiff on quite a few services today including what would've been HD05's diagram if it hadn't had an issue with the doors?

TfW showing ' issues with the radio between driver and signaller' on JourneyCheck.

 

[IslandLine101]

Was it HD05 that failed at Manchester on the 0930?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Was it HD05 that failed at Manchester on the 0930?

Yes.

 

[BillStampy]

HD03 due to be on the early Cardiff start, if it can get back to Canton that is as it's joined the dogpile at Llanharan as 2L63 has something wrong as it's been there for 50+ minutes

Edit: it's out now heading back to Canton, how many diagrams do we expect tomorrow to run?

 

[Lurcheroo]

HD02+67008- Will work 1W96 tonight then enter temporary storage at Holyhead, 67008 will come off the set to go light to Crewe tomorrow to go onto HD01.

Don’t suppose you happen to know when HD02 will find itself with a loco again do you ?

 

[sd0733]

Don’t suppose you happen to know when HD02 will find itself with a loco again do you ?

From what I've been told is/was the plan it should be heading to Crewe later this week or early next week once HD06 is finished.

Edit: it's out now heading back to Canton, how many diagrams do we expect tomorrow to run?

4. HD01 and 05 off Crewe and HD03 off Canton plus HD04 should pick up the 4th diagram as the 10:52 off Cardiff as there's no set at Holyhead.

Those 4 sets aren't due exams so are planned out to cover all diagrams all week but requires 100% availability again

 

[Lurcheroo]

From what I've been told is/was the plan it should be heading to Crewe later this week or early next week once HD06 is finished.


4. HD01 and 05 off Crewe and HD03 off Canton plus HD04 should pick up the 4th diagram as the 10:52 off Cardiff as there's no set at Holyhead.

Those 4 sets aren't due exams so are planned out to cover all diagrams all week but requires 100% availability again

Good stuff ! Any ideas on the next 5 car set ?

 

[sd0733]

Good stuff ! Any ideas on the next 5 car set ?

HD06 it's already formed up with 12461 added so just finishing its exam before it has a test run and heads back out.

All the TOs are now in the workshops, the line at Crewe is no more so its getting towards the end.

HD02 should then go straight to a 5 car with the addition of 12447 then HD04 (12434) and HD05 (12477) should be lengthened next time they're on a scheduled exam at Crewe.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Not totally sure what the plans are to be honest. The issue there now is on the Holyheads is that many of the catering staff now work 5 shorter days than 4 longer ones to take account of the reduced time A Manchester takes over a Holyhead so any return to those would need staffing changes. It's not insurmountable but a bit of a hurdle the Holyheads returning.

Thanks. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[theblackwatch]

4. HD01 and 05 off Crewe and HD03 off Canton plus HD04 should pick up the 4th diagram as the 10:52 off Cardiff as there's no set at Holyhead.

HD04 (with 67014) is actually on the 08.30 Manchester to Cardiff, so presumably came up on the early starter from Cardiff the morning.

 

[sd0733]

HD04 (with 67014) is actually on the 08.30 Manchester to Cardiff, so presumably came up on the early starter from Cardiff the morning.

Yes looks like they've swapped round with HD04 on the 04:35 and HD03 now going out on the 10:52.

Edit- Swapped again as HD05 now on 10:52 from Cardiff with HD03 now planned for the 12:49.

 

[Lurcheroo]

HD06 it's already formed up with 12461 added so just finishing its exam before it has a test run and heads back out.

All the TOs are now in the workshops, the line at Crewe is no more so its getting towards the end.

HD02 should then go straight to a 5 car with the addition of 12447 then HD04 (12434) and HD05 (12477) should be lengthened next time they're on a scheduled exam at Crewe.

Oh brilliant ! Great to see it all coming together. As always, thanks for the info.

 

[87electric]

HD06 it's already formed up with 12461 added so just finishing its exam before it has a test run and heads back out.

All the TOs are now in the workshops, the line at Crewe is no more so its getting towards the end.

HD02 should then go straight to a 5 car with the addition of 12447 then HD04 (12434) and HD05 (12477) should be lengthened next time they're on a scheduled exam at Crewe.

12447 was in set HDO2 (probably for a short while) in Nov 2022. All this swapping is hard to keep track of. Thanks for all the updates.

 

[sd0733]

12447 was in set HDO2 (probably for a short while) in Nov 2022. All this swapping is hard to keep track of. Thanks for all the updates.

HD01-03 all ran as 4 car sets with a TO (124xx) rather than the TOD (123xx) vehicle from introduction until November/December 2022 when they had SDO fitted and the TOD vehicle added in lieu of the TO. These are now being added back in to make them upto 5 car.

 

[craigybagel]

From April they will also be able to run at 90 between Shrewsbury and Crewe.

They need to get a move on with the signage then.

Is that after some track work was done, or is it just a reassessment of the speed limits?
I seem to remember that 175s, like 185s, originally didn't qualify for MU speeds, but that quickly changed when ATW took them on.

We were told it would be a blanket 90 for everything, with the MU speed removed.

I'd imagine just Swansea. Saves on clearance costs and also I don't know how many runs the 67s would be able to do without a refuel.

Allegedly that's why the original all day Swansea plan was cancelled. 67s don't have the fuel capacity to do two Swansea - Manchester round trips. Having seen how empty the tanks are when they get on depot with their existing diagrams,I can believe it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Allegedly that's why the original all day Swansea plan was cancelled. 67s don't have the fuel capacity to do two Swansea - Manchester round trips. Having seen how empty the tanks are when they get on depot with their existing diagrams,I can believe it.

I guess having more would allow them to do Manchester Swansea by swapping sets halfway through the day, i.e. as the first round trip is completed and it arrives into Swansea, a second set pulls in from the depot to work the second one, but I guess it wouldn't be the most resourceful process.

 

[Anonymous10]

I guess having more would allow them to do Manchester Swansea by swapping sets halfway through the day, i.e. as the first round trip is completed and it arrives into Swansea, a second set pulls in from the depot to work the second one, but I guess it wouldn't be the most resourceful process.

Or alternatively fuel them at Landore by detaching the loco. However that would leave the loco under the main shed an picadilly.

 

[MP393]

However that would leave the loco under the main shed an picadilly.

I think that idea is long out the window anyway, the sets reverse quite a bit and end up “wrong way” like when the booked empties via Warrington go mainline instead, engineering reversals at East Usk Jn early morning, or diversions via Chester. These days it’s just a lottery of which way round the set is rather than a planned orientation!

 

[Caaardiff]

Swansea - Manchester is about 220 miles
Cardiff - Manchester is about 175 miles
Cardiff - Swansea is about 45 miles
Manchester - Crewe is about 35 miles
and the range of the 67s is about 800.

On that basis a diagram such as:
Cardiff - Manchester (175)
Manchester - Swansea - Manchester (440)
Manchester - Crewe (35)
Is 650 miles.

Switch the last to Manchester - Cardiff and that's 790 miles, just within the range of the 67.
The issue is that type of diagram doesn't give opportunities for maintenance swaps as it starts and ends at the same location, canton in this case, along with having the Holyheads in the mix.

 

[Anonymous10]

I think that idea is long out the window anyway, the sets reverse quite a bit and end up “wrong way” like when the booked empties via Warrington go mainline instead, engineering reversals at East Usk Jn early morning, or diversions via Chester. These days it’s just a lottery of which way round the set is rather than a planned orientation!

That is true bur surely you could change locos on the depot?

Swansea - Manchester is about 220 miles
Cardiff - Manchester is about 175 miles
Cardiff - Swansea is about 45 miles
Manchester - Crewe is about 35 miles
and the range of the 67s is about 800.

On that basis a diagram such as:
Cardiff - Manchester (175)
Manchester - Swansea - Manchester (440)
Manchester - Crewe (35)
Is 650 miles.

Switch the last to Manchester - Cardiff and that's 790 miles, just within the range of the 67.
The issue is that type of diagram doesn't give opportunities for maintenance swaps as it starts and ends at the same location, canton in this case, along with having the Holyheads in the mix.

Also doesn't allow for if there's an issue with only 10l of wiggle room. It'd be like permanently driving a car on fumes each evening.

 

[Caaardiff]

That is true bur surely you could change locos on the depot?

Or just fuel it on Depot. They only seem to have about 30-40 mins on Canton during the day. How long does it take to fuel a 67?

 

[craigybagel]

Or alternatively fuel them at Landore by detaching the loco. However that would leave the loco under the main shed an picadilly.

I think that idea is long out the window anyway, the sets reverse quite a bit and end up “wrong way” like when the booked empties via Warrington go mainline instead, engineering reversals at East Usk Jn early morning, or diversions via Chester. These days it’s just a lottery of which way round the set is rather than a planned orientation!

No issues with putting the engine under the shed at Piccadilly, in fact that's the officially preferred way around, it works better at Canton. In theory sets shouldn't turn, the Warrington ECS runs should use the same set each way overnight but there's still a big backlog of Crewe drivers who need to learn the route.

That said, there's not a hope for taking the engine on and off at Swansea, or anywhere else. It would require a shunter and quite a lot of time and hassle. More likely they'd just shunt the entire set up the depot and back.

I guess having more would allow them to do Manchester Swansea by swapping sets halfway through the day, i.e. as the first round trip is completed and it arrives into Swansea, a second set pulls in from the depot to work the second one, but I guess it wouldn't be the most resourceful process.

Indeed - if there were lots of sets available it might be a good option but sadly that's not the case. More likely it'll change when we get a more fuel efficient loco, or at least one with a larger tank.

 

[BillStampy]

Realtime Trains | 5Z07 1740 Crewe C.S. to Cardiff Canton Sidings | 15/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z07 1740 departure from Crewe C.S. to Cardiff Canton Sidings on 15/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presuming this is for HD07 tyre turning before re-entering service?

 

[sd0733]

Realtime Trains | 5Z07 1740 Crewe C.S. to Cardiff Canton Sidings | 15/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z07 1740 departure from Crewe C.S. to Cardiff Canton Sidings on 15/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presuming this is for HD07 tyre turning before re-entering service?

It's HD07 but it had a bit of a leak in roof of the TO so its gone to Canton to be repaired over the weekend. Its planned back out on 1W57 on Monday.

 

[BillStampy]

It's HD07 but it had a bit of a leak in roof of the TO so its gone to Canton to be repaired over the weekend. Its planned back out on 1W57 on Monday.

ah alright, thanks!

 

[MCR247]

Realtime Trains | 1W11 0435 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 1W11 0435 departure from Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 0435 Cardiff - Manchester is showing as running in an altered path on Monday 25th March with only standard class seating, is this expected to be a DMU?

 

[sd0733]

Realtime Trains | 1W11 0435 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly | 25/03/2024

Real-time train running information for 1W11 0435 departure from Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly on 25/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 0435 Cardiff - Manchester is showing as running in an altered path on Monday 25th March with only standard class seating, is this expected to be a DMU?

That one should be a 67. One of a rather limited number for tomorrow though.

Diagrams tomorrow are only 2 and a bit, should be:

67008+HD01
06:27 Manchester-Cardiff
12:49 Cardiff-Manchester
16:30 Manchester-Swansea

67013+HD05
04:35 Cardiff-Manchester
08:30 Manchester-Cardiff
17:14 Cardiff-Holyhead

67029+HD07
16:49 Cardiff-Manchester

Tuesday should see 67014 on HD07 with those 3 sets working the Holyead, Cardiff and first Manchester diagram with the 4th, 04:54 Crewe-Cardiff etc subbed.
67029 is still awaiting its bogie overhaul Hence its very short diagram on Monday as its effectively being used as a super shunter/power sets on depot at the moment until it goes.