Finalists - Best UK 'High Speed' train

Out of these 3 finalists, which one would you crown the best UK High Speed train?

  • Class 43 HST

    Votes: 140 46.5%
  • Class 91 IC 225

    Votes: 57 18.9%
  • Class 390 Pendolino

    Votes: 104 34.6%

  • Total voters
    301
  • Poll closed .

Bletchleyite

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Oh definitely some revisionism from the HST hipsters (I think I might stick to that term!). Back when I used the ECML an awful lot between Newcastle & York (GNER & Virgin XC days), I’d actively go for the IC225. If time was an issue and a HST bellowed up, I’d have a deflated feel precisely because of the way the dated interior made me feel when using the train.

I'd not say the Mk4 original interior was much to write about either (though their present interior is very nice indeed after VTEC replaced the problematic seat cushions GNER fitted). It was like an cheapo version of the WYPTE Class 158 interior - lots of grey and red, and fairly rubbish seats. I guess it all looked very futuristic, though.
 
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Mat17

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I was always elated when a 125 turned up and thoroughly disappointed when a 225 arrived.

Two very different mindsets clearly, some people hate dated, others love it... Retro.

Talking of dated interiors, I miss the orange and yellow vestibules trains used to have. A bit of colour is always nice.
 

trebor79

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I'd not say the Mk4 original interior was much to write about either (though their present interior is very nice indeed after VTEC replaced the problematic seat cushions GNER fitted). It was like an cheapo version of the WYPTE Class 158 interior - lots of grey and red, and fairly rubbish seats. I guess it all looked very futuristic, though.
I never liked the original Mk4 interior. The grey and red colour scheme was OK, but the lighting was horribly harsh, especially at night. Just bare flourescent tube mounted above metal plates with lots of holes drilled in them. Actually used to make my eyes hurt at night. The GNER refurb brought them up to a very nice standard indeed.
 

Bletchleyite

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I never liked the original Mk4 interior. The grey and red colour scheme was OK, but the lighting was horribly harsh, especially at night. Just bare flourescent tube mounted above metal plates with lots of holes drilled in them. Actually used to make my eyes hurt at night. The GNER refurb brought them up to a very nice standard indeed.

Interestingly that is the arrangement on a lot of Bombardier stock, e.g. most Electrostars (but oddly not Turbostars) and S stock, and it's not at all unpleasant. I guess the size of the holes is important.

Edit: also on the GNER refurb!
 

Purple Orange

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I was always elated when a 125 turned up and thoroughly disappointed when a 225 arrived.

Two very different mindsets clearly, some people hate dated, others love it... Retro.

Talking of dated interiors, I miss the orange and yellow vestibules trains used to have. A bit of colour is always nice.
Lol clearly two different mindsets. Those orange/yellow/brown vestibules is what would set me off. A IC225 had doors the opened properly. A HST had manual doors. The grey in the IC225 vestibule felt more up to date. The yellow in the HST felt like going back in time to days of tellys where you could only change channel by pressing a button on the actual tv, or the days where you’d see cars with wire coat hangers for aerials.
 

trebor79

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Interestingly that is the arrangement on a lot of Bombardier stock, e.g. most Electrostars (but oddly not Turbostars) and S stock, and it's not at all unpleasant. I guess the size of the holes is important.
I agree. I think the 720's are like that too (but I've only been on one and can't really remember). Perhaps it was a combination of the very grey colour scheme and the particular colour temperature of the tubes used? I also seem to recall the lighting was very very bright.
 

Mat17

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Lol clearly two different mindsets. Those orange/yellow/brown vestibules is what would set me off. A IC225 had doors the opened properly. A HST had manual doors. The grey in the IC225 vestibule felt more up to date. The yellow in the HST felt like going back in time to days of tellys where you could only change channel by pressing a button on the actual tv, or the days where you’d see cars with wire coat hangers for aerials.
I love the 125s for all the reasons you hate them.

I guess I'm a sentimentalist.
 

Retorus

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There's also something wonderful about the tilt on the northern WCML which helps make the 390 my favourite I think. That and that turn just before Rugby that's always a fun adventure at speed!
 

43096

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I thought it a good day when a train of aircon Mk2s showed up instead.
A sizeable chunk of the aircon Mark 2 fleet was fitted with, er, IC70 seats. Just with a worse ride, lower speed and dubious aircon (ie it didn’t work).

Some of the refurbs, particularly those using the Grammer IC3000 seat, were excellent, by comparison.
The refurbs that used First corporate puke colours and had over bright lighting (which was way in excess of the original Mark 3 lighting) even on the dim setting.

Nothing like being consistently inconsistent!
 

LOL The Irony

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Multiple Units are better than LHCS from an operational and technological standpoint, although I take it that this post was said in jest.
But as far as the kids ( and there are a lot on this board) are concerned it bends over in corners so must be cool. Clueless. They have no idea.
I stand corrected, it wasn't in jest, it was just a genuine "these darn kids today" post.

The seethe because people dare vote for a unit.
 

DarloRich

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I stand corrected, it wasn't in jest, it was just a genuine "these darn kids today" post.

The seethe because people dare vote for a unit.
it was kind of in jest!

It is very easy if you have only travelled on things like Pendolinos or Voyagers to think they are the best thing ever. Some of us know what came before the tired old nasty HST and compare the change those trains made with the alleged progress offered today. Some of us here cant do that. Some of us cant. Views need to be graded on that basis.

BTW you are welcome to say my views are a load of old pony!
 

Bletchleyite

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it was kind of in jest!

It is very easy if you have only travelled on things like Pendolinos or Voyagers to think they are the best thing ever. Some of us know what came before the tired old nasty HST and compare the change those trains made with the alleged progress offered today. Some of us here cant do that. Some of us cant. Views need to be graded on that basis.

Much as I hate the Fainsa Sophia (and know that is a personal view not shared by everyone) I think progress is going back the other way now, with things like the Class 397's quite pleasant layout.
 

DarloRich

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Much as I hate the Fainsa Sophia (and know that is a personal view not shared by everyone) I think progress is going back the other way now, with things like the Class 397's quite pleasant layout.

I think I have only been on a couple of the new TPE trains and think they are pretty good. Is the 397 the electric only one? The seats are still a bit thin for me but comfortable enough. It is certainly better than the Pendolino on space and leg room!

BTW: I don't know what a Fainsa Sophia is. Assume it is a seat style.

BTW2: I am far from against "new" trains. I think the 350's are superb. One failure for me in 10+ years. Good seats, good layout. If only they would avoid the 350/2 on a Crewe > Euston mind!
 

Bletchleyite

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I think I have only been on a couple of the new TPE trains and think they are pretty good. Is the 397 the electric only one? The seats are still a bit thin for me but comfortable enough. It is certainly better than the Pendolino on space and leg room!

It is yes.

BTW: I don't know what a Fainsa Sophia is. Assume it is a seat style.

It's the type of seat used on all the new TPE trains, all 80x except Lumo and the forthcoming Avanti ones, and TfW 197s when they show up. The ones you are describing as "a bit thin for me but comfortable enough" above.

BTW2: I am far from against "new" trains. I think the 350's are superb. One failure for me in 10+ years. Good seats, good layout. If only they would avoid the 350/2 on a Crewe > Euston mind!

Agreed, very little to criticise about 350s - the "sham First Class" probably it.
 

DarloRich

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It's the type of seat used on all the new TPE trains, all 80x except Lumo and the forthcoming Avanti ones, and TfW 197s when they show up. The ones you are describing as "a bit thin for me but comfortable enough" above.

Thanks - interesting - I do find the ones on LNER less comfortable, while still just about acceptable. Perhaps it is the longer journey times.
 

hst43102

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it was kind of in jest!

It is very easy if you have only travelled on things like Pendolinos or Voyagers to think they are the best thing ever. Some of us know what came before the tired old nasty HST and compare the change those trains made with the alleged progress offered today. Some of us here cant do that. Some of us cant. Views need to be graded on that basis.

BTW you are welcome to say my views are a load of old pony!
Fair enough if you can remember the days before the HST!

However - I'm 19 and have thankfully been able to travel on all three of the high speed trains in this poll. The HST is miles ahead of the IC225 in terms of the experience - and the Pendolino is miles behind the IC225! I loved the classic experience on the HSTs - the comfortable seats, good sized windows, and especially the manual doors! Sadly gone from the MML now...
 

Ken H

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Fair enough if you can remember the days before the HST!

However - I'm 19 and have thankfully been able to travel on all three of the high speed trains in this poll. The HST is miles ahead of the IC225 in terms of the experience - and the Pendolino is miles behind the IC225! I loved the classic experience on the HSTs - the comfortable seats, good sized windows, and especially the manual doors! Sadly gone from the MML now...
Travelling with a Cl 45 dragging 10 MK2's, maybe not the aircon ones, on a long journey was tediously slow. ILeeds - Paignton took nearly a whole day. HST changed that, and allowed the cascade of Mk2's and cl 47 to cross country, trans pennine etc.
 

MattRat

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it was kind of in jest!

It is very easy if you have only travelled on things like Pendolinos or Voyagers to think they are the best thing ever.
I've travelled on a HST as well as those two. I still like the Pendolino the best. That's not to say the others are bad trains, but the Pendolino feels the most futuristic and I really think that's what train travel should be aiming for.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've travelled on a HST as well as those two. I still like the Pendolino the best. That's not to say the others are bad trains, but the Pendolino feels the most futuristic and I really think that's what train travel should be aiming for.

It's interesting that the Pendo still seems to have a futuristic sort of feel when it is now nearly 20 years old.
 

Purple Orange

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Just goes to show why it's best that enthusiasts don't have to run the trains!
I know! We’d still have HSTs on our mainlines! The rail network would be a proper mix of hitch porch everywhere to everywhere routes and assorts of different traction.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I've travelled on a HST as well as those two. I still like the Pendolino the best. That's not to say the others are bad trains, but the Pendolino feels the most futuristic and I really think that's what train travel should be aiming for.
Agreed. HSTs have horrendous bright lighting too, whereas the dim lighting, small windows and fake wood carriage ends on 390s really create a nice cozy atmosphere to me
 

irish_rail

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I know! We’d still have HSTs on our mainlines! The rail network would be a proper mix of hitch porch everywhere to everywhere routes and assorts of different traction.
If enthusiasts ran the railway then I think HST2 would have come to fruition, and we'd probably have a decent nationwide fleet of trailers and powered cars capable of both diesel and electric. There wouldn't be all these noisy , polluting underfloor engines on IC stock.
The seating would be comfortable on long distance trains, designed more around comfort than cramming em in.

I shudder at the thought.......
 

py_megapixel

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I can't understand this anti-multiple-unit prejudice that some members seem to have.

I can understand you not liking the noisy, rattly underfloor engines on a Sprinter, but that's not a problem with DMUs in general. Get onto a 185, Turbostar or even a 158 and the engine just a drone in the background - noticeable, but far from enough to wreck the experience of the journey. And in any case, all of this is moot because the 390 is an EMU so there are no engines, and inside, it would barely be distinguishable from comparable loco-hauled stock, if comparable loco-hauled stock existed.

According to a certain category of enthusiast, it would appear that a 390 is the work of the devil, until it breaks down and is rescued by a 57, whereupon it becomes a fantastically engineered piece of machinery!
 

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