First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

Furthest I ever sat on a 6 was from the Calderwood Terminus to Scotstoun West coming back from my friends house as I was short of money at the time so didn't have enough spare change for an all day ticket to do my usual plan of getting a 21 then a 1 home. Only 2 words could describe that journey even though it was in the evening. Never again

 

[route101]

Furthest I ever sat on a 6 was from the Calderwood Terminus to Scotstoun West coming back from my friends house as I was short of money at the time so didn't have enough spare change for an all day ticket to do my usual plan of getting a 21 then a 1 home. Only 2 words could describe that journey even though it was in the evening. Never again

Ive done Clydebank to East Kilbride a few times.Better to do the 1 and 6. If your doing that run on the 6, much better upstairs on a double decker.

Seems odd that, of the three frequent services from Mount Florida into the City Centre, the two corridors that have come from far away (the 4 from Newton Mearns/ Eaglesham, the 6 from East Kilbride) both continue cross city towards the University and beyond, whilst the service that has only started within the traditional city boundaries (the 5 from Castlemilk) terminates just a stone's throw after crossing the Clyde, not even getting north of Argyle Street - i.e. the one that's come the shortest distance from the south goes the shortest distance to the north.

I appreciate that there are some long established cross city links (especially to the University or to hospitals) that would be politically hard to entirely scrap but it seems like First are happy having some routes fairly short (e.g. the 5 has a round trip of about eighty minutes) whilst other routes become unreliable due to their length (e.g. the 6 has a round trip of around four and a half hours - so you could do a City - Castlemilk - City hurl on a 5 in around the same time as a 6 would take to get from the city centre just to Clydebank/ East Kilbride without it turning around to head back towards the city centre.

Swapping the 5 and 6 would retain a link from the southside to the University area and from Clydebank/ Anniesland to the Victoria Hospital, with the added bonus of making both services more reliable, since passengers wanting to make a local journey in East Kilbride wouldn't be at the mercy of what traffic was like on the Great Western Road almost two hours ago.

The 5 route has never changed as far as i can remember. With it starting at Osborne St, its pretty realiable. Going through the City Centre seems to kill the realiability.

 

[smtglasgow]

Agree with all the comments about reliability, but are all these long routes not all about getting the most out of drivers – ie. a 4 and a half hour round trip must be about half a shift? Don’t know what the maximum driving time is before someone must have a break, but bus companies are bound to try and push it to the max. The fact that Glasgow (and plenty other places) has so many long routes suggests that it works for First (and the rest), if not the public. The current model is all about slashing costs - splitting routes could only really be justified if it also involved frequency reductions to keep the PVR the same. Which wouldn't really be an improvement.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 8 and 90 are probably the only services you couldn't split without lowering frequency as they are every 30 mins but the others like the 3 and 6 especially could drop from every 10 mins to 12 at the very least. With the 6 I'd make a case of every 15 mins at least on the west end of Glasgow.

Running time on some routes is also part of the problem as much as that is also to save costs. There's certainly a few that are very questionable and the problem is that they'd only be on time in normal conditions if the buses infront were late.

The 38s were always shocking for this. At times you'd get 3 Glasgow Fort 38s together without a lettered variant in site. The 2s and 3s are bad for ending up with 2 or 3 together too. The problem is though that it's not always a busy bus that leads to it. I remember 1 night on a 1 into the City Centre. The bus came bang on time just before Scotstoun yet was around 7/8 mins late by Glasgow Central and it barely stopped

 

[alexf380]

Don’t know what the maximum driving time is before someone must have a break, but bus companies are bound to try and push it to the max.

It's legally required to have 45 minutes break after 4.5 hours driving, so one turn on those routes would fit that quite nicely. I'm not sure, however, if driving a shuttle van back to the garage after a changeover counts towards driving hours. I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It's legally required to have 45 minutes break after 4.5 hours driving, so one turn on those routes would fit that quite nicely. I'm not sure, however, if driving a shuttle van back to the garage after a changeover counts towards driving hours. I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

That's EU tacho rules I believe. First Glasgow will use GB domestic rules, which is a 30 minute break after 5.5 hours driving, and no more than 10 hours driving per day.

 

[route101]

The 8 and 90 are probably the only services you couldn't split without lowering frequency as they are every 30 mins but the others like the 3 and 6 especially could drop from every 10 mins to 12 at the very least. With the 6 I'd make a case of every 15 mins at least on the west end of Glasgow.

Running time on some routes is also part of the problem as much as that is also to save costs. There's certainly a few that are very questionable and the problem is that they'd only be on time in normal conditions if the buses infront were late.

The 38s were always shocking for this. At times you'd get 3 Glasgow Fort 38s together without a lettered variant in site. The 2s and 3s are bad for ending up with 2 or 3 together too. The problem is though that it's not always a busy bus that leads to it. I remember 1 night on a 1 into the City Centre. The bus came bang on time just before Scotstoun yet was around 7/8 mins late by Glasgow Central and it barely stopped

When a bus is late and/or other services that run on same section don't show up , that can make the buses run more late. Picking up and stopping more frequently.
In other words the bus has to pick up the pieces.

 

[PaulMc7]

When a bus is late and/or other services that run on same section don't show up , that can make the buses run more late. Picking up and stopping more frequently.
In other words the bus has to pick up the pieces.

Yeah it's an unfortunate problem. I'd take a reliable every 15 min frequency service though over what tends to happen with some. Been times where I've waited 30/40 mins on a 6 before then 4 have came.

Always wondered if less frequent services with more mins put into the timetable to help reliability would attract people back to the buses. Could imagine it working to an extent if people knew what they were going for was turning up consistently on time

 

[LT02 NVV]

Glasgow should have the bendies back for the 3, the route is packed and double deckers are being used often.

The bendies from Aberdeen and Somerset & Avon should be sent to Glasgow.

 

[route101]

Glasgow should have the bendies back for the 3, the route is packed and double deckers are being used often.

The bendies from Aberdeen and Somerset & Avon should be sent to Glasgow.

Deckers are much better. I remember the hassle of getting on and off the bendies on the 9. Same applies on busy singles.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Glasgow should have the bendies back for the 3, the route is packed and double deckers are being used often.

The bendies from Aberdeen and Somerset & Avon should be sent to Glasgow.

I doubt bendies would fit in Silverburn or Govan bus stations. Even Partick could be difficult these days.

 

[PaulMc7]

I was unfortunate enough of using the 9 and 62 when they both had bendies. They were a nightmare to get on and off not to mention when there was traffic, turning was a nightmare for the drivers

 

[Whiteway215]

Glasgow should have the bendies back for the 3, the route is packed and double deckers are being used often.

The bendies from Aberdeen and Somerset & Avon should be sent to Glasgow.

With due respect I don’t believe the good people of Glasgow would appreciate receiving fifteen year old bendies from First Bath. These have been hammered up the hills of Bath on the university services fully laden with students.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The bendies from Aberdeen and Somerset & Avon should be sent to Glasgow.

WTF

The ones in Bath have traditionally been used for peak hour movements from the University where their capacity is really needed. As @Whiteway215 rightly says, they are pretty knackered as well so there's no way you could have them being hammered in all day service.

Can't speak of Aberdeen - I'm sure that @Jordan Adam will similarly confirm that the Aberdeen ones are needed there

 

[Jordan Adam]

Can't speak of Aberdeen - I'm sure that @Jordan Adam will similarly confirm that the Aberdeen ones are needed there

Indeed, Buses run up to every 2 minutes (usually) in the morning peak and are often rammed full. Glasgow would have no real use for Artics as in most cases deckers are more suitable.

 

[LT02 NVV]

With due respect I don’t believe the good people of Glasgow would appreciate receiving fifteen year old bendies from First Bath. These have been hammered up the hills of Bath on the university services fully laden with students.

Bath and Aberdeen’s bendies are 05 plates, Glasgow has older buses than them. But maybe Aberdeen should give us the bendies, after all, Glasgow gave our E500s to them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bath and Aberdeen’s bendies are 05 plates, Glasgow has older buses than them. But maybe Aberdeen should give us the bendies, after all, Glasgow gave our E500s to them.

I don't think you quite appreciate it. The B7LAs are pretty tired - the Bath ones just will not stand up to working all day. 15 years old is very old for a bendi, let alone in all-day service.

Also, doesn't provide an answer as to what will Bath or Aberdeen do without their bendies?? I'm sure that Andrew Jarvis would prefer to have deckers!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Bath and Aberdeen’s bendies are 05 plates, Glasgow has older buses than them. But maybe Aberdeen should give us the bendies, after all, Glasgow gave our E500s to them.

just because they’re a few years younger doesn't mean they’re in better condition. Glasgow giving aberdeen E500s because they’re more needed up there doesnt mean they should give something they need back. your logic behind things needs checked

 

[PaulMc7]

Let's not forget about the low emission zone also being just 2 years away now either. Last thing Glasgow needs is any older buses.

What routes would bendies even suit here either? I don't think there are any if I'm honest

 

[Jordan Adam]

just because they’re a few years younger doesn't mean they’re in better condition. Glasgow giving aberdeen E500s because they’re more needed up there doesnt mean they should give something they need back. your logic behind things needs checked

To be fair the B7LAs probably are in better condition as they were extensively refurbished in 2015, most of them internally are in better condition than much of the newer fleet.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Let's not forget about the low emission zone also being just 2 years away now either. Last thing Glasgow needs is any older buses.

What routes would bendies even suit here either? I don't think there are any if I'm honest

Indeed, I'm sure Mr Jarvis (having only recently got rid of stuff like the B7LAs and most of the Tridents, plus sending a decent number of B7TLs to Cornwall via Bristol) wouldn't be welcoming more pretty old stuff into the fleet.

As an aside, there was the announcement of funding for new electric buses; did they detail the quantities going to each operator?

Any other new vehicle investment is, of course, very much subject to change. Even if the LEZ timetable doesn't change, the service levels and resultant PVR will obviously determine how much needs to arrive to achieve compliance and that's one for major speculation

To be fair the B7LAs probably are in better condition as they were extensively refurbished in 2015, most of them internally are in better condition than much of the newer fleet.

They may be cosmetically better and even aspects like the flooring etc have a bearing past mere cosmetics. However, drivetrains and turntables etc do tend to wear out which is why bendis tend to have a shorter life.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Glasgow should have the bendies back for the 3, the route is packed and double deckers are being used often.

The bendies from Aberdeen and Somerset & Avon should be sent to Glasgow.

In all honestly as an enthusiast I liked the bendies when they were here in Glasgow - in particular the B10LAs which I remember when they were on the 61 and 62. They were good buses. From a travelling perspective if they weren’t going to use the rear door it made alighting so much more difficult especially during peak times. I miss the variety these buses brought but the reality is that they’re not very suitable for a city like Glasgow.

I think they are a necessity in Aberdeen, however and I hope once the Citaros reach the end of their life - they really consider ordering new B8RLEAs from new. The seem to work well on the 1/2 services and perhaps once the E500s come up for replacement at roughly the same time - they’ll oust them all together with one big order of artics.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In all honestly as an enthusiast I liked the bendies when they were here in Glasgow - in particular the B10LAs which I remember when they were on the 61 and 62. They were good buses. From a travelling perspective if they weren’t going to use the rear door it made alighting so much more difficult especially during peak times. I miss the variety these buses brought but the reality is that they’re not very suitable for a city like Glasgow.

I think they are a necessity in Aberdeen, however and I hope once the Citaros reach the end of their life - they really consider ordering new B8RLEAs from new. The seem to work well on the 1/2 services and perhaps once the E500s come up for replacement at roughly the same time - they’ll oust them all together with one big order of artics.

I don't know if there will be any new artics. Aside from airport transits, when were the last ones delivered to a UK operator?

 

[KendalKing]

I don't know if there will be any new artics. Aside from airport transits, when were the last ones delivered to a UK operator?

According to Bus List on the Web, this year to National Express West Midlands.

 

[PaulMc7]

First time I've actually noticed it but that's the bus stop signs been moved off of the poles on Todd Street so looks like nothing replacing the 32 either although I'm really not surprised. The full route of it is fairly close to other services

 

[cnjb8]

According to Bus List on the Web, this year to National Express West Midlands.

Weird, they're used by NatEx in Stansted.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

According to Bus List on the Web, this year to National Express West Midlands.

Weird, they're used by NatEx in Stansted.

As they're 33 seat artics, I suspected that they were indeed airport vehicles.

 

[LT02 NVV]

just because they’re a few years younger doesn't mean they’re in better condition. Glasgow giving aberdeen E500s because they’re more needed up there doesnt mean they should give something they need back. your logic behind things needs checked

Yeah, I was being stupid, but Glasgow does need new buses for the 9 and the 4.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yeah, I was being stupid, but Glasgow does need new buses for the 9 and the 4.

It may well have been that new vehicles are, or were, due to upgrade those routes, perhaps directly or via cascading (e.g. new fleet for the One to release e300s to replace Eclipses) in order to meet the demands of the LEZ. In the current climate, what is happening to future orders is really unclear.

 

[route101]

Yeah, I was being stupid, but Glasgow does need new buses for the 9 and the 4.

I dont think the 4 makes money anymore. It used to get new buses, it was one of the first routes to get geminis. Now it still gets them geminis. It also had the e500s at new.

As for bendies ive never enjoyed travelling on them. They are popular in Europe, often have less seats and more standing room there, i remember in Athens being packed in one.